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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack-be-nimble View Post
    I liked that truth was a central theme for Wonder Woman. It had a poetic sensibility to it: Truth (WW), Justice (Bats) and the American Way (Supes).
    Me too! I don't want her to be the personification of truth, or even for truth to be her only theme. But I do think truth ties in nicely to empowerment and the pursuit of self-perfection. I just wish more writers could use this well; there seems to be a lot of potential there, imo.
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

  2. #32
    What the?!? jack-be-nimble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Me too! I don't want her to be the personification of truth, or even for truth to be her only theme. But I do think truth ties in nicely to empowerment and the pursuit of self-perfection. I just wish more writers could use this well; there seems to be a lot of potential there, imo.

    Agreed, AmericanWonder.

    It was limiting when writers began to focus on that to the exclusion of all else. Maybe that's because WW only had one book in which to explore her potential. Whereas Superman or Batman had a bazillion.

    There wasn't a variety of books to tell stories that reflected all the different aspects of her character: spirit of truth, warrior princess, avenging amazon, ambassador of peace, etc. When a writer, Rucka for instance, incorporated various facets into the writing...we got a slow burning, strong saga that didn't fare as well in the monthly format.

    It would be ballsy and awesome if they released three WW monthlies to explore her facets...and maybe sate the rabid fans, old and new alike.

    jBn

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack-be-nimble View Post
    Agreed, AmericanWonder.

    It was limiting when writers began to focus on that to the exclusion of all else. Maybe that's because WW only had one book in which to explore her potential. Whereas Superman or Batman had a bazillion.

    There wasn't a variety of books to tell stories that reflected all the different aspects of her character: spirit of truth, warrior princess, avenging amazon, ambassador of peace, etc. When a writer, Rucka for instance, incorporated various facets into the writing...we got a slow burning, strong saga that didn't fare as well in the monthly format.

    It would be ballsy and awesome if they released three WW monthlies to explore her facets...and maybe sate the rabid fans, old and new alike.

    jBn
    Amen, jBn (who has one of the best avatars EVER!).

    Perhaps with sales doing well, maybe we can hope for a second book? Please?

    I guess we are getting Morrison's WW gn at some point (knock on wood). But I do envy those Bat-fans sometimes. They got it good.
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

  4. #34
    Senior Member chastmastr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelly_warrior_princess View Post
    Seriously, this is the main reason why this character spent years pretty much sucking
    Except she didn't.

  5. #35
    Senior Member chastmastr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Perhaps with sales doing well, maybe we can hope for a second book? Please?
    If it's not in the same continuity, I'm all for it. If it's more of the same, I'll just continue to not buy it.

  6. #36
    BANNED jancy's Avatar
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    I think you guys are missing the point...

    Truth was NEVER her theme, or main theme, or personification, or anything.

    Wonder Woman was NEVER the personification of anything. That's something that was cooked up by writers who didn't get it, didn't understand the character.

    Aphrodite was the personification of LOVE.

    So there's no need to "not want her to be the personification of antying".....she never was.

  7. #37
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancy View Post
    I think you guys are missing the point...

    Truth was NEVER her theme, or main theme, or personification, or anything.

    Wonder Woman was NEVER the personification of anything. That's something that was cooked up by writers who didn't get it, didn't understand the character.

    Aphrodite was the personification of LOVE.

    So there's no need to "not want her to be the personification of antying".....she never was.
    You can keep saying this, but unfortunately that doesn't make it true.

    During Byrne's run she was the personification of Truth and became the Goddess of Truth.

    Others have touched on this theme and it has since faded into history, but it is incorrect to say 'never' the personification of anything.

    You may disagree with what the writers did, but that doesn't change that they did it.

  8. #38
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    You can keep saying this, but unfortunately that doesn't make it true.

    During Byrne's run she was the personification of Truth and became the Goddess of Truth.

    Others have touched on this theme and it has since faded into history, but it is incorrect to say 'never' the personification of anything.

    You may disagree with what the writers did, but that doesn't change that they did it.
    Yeah, it's a little bit like saying Batman never had a yellow oval on his chest.

    He didn't start out with it, and it's gone now, but claiming it never happened is just silly.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  9. #39
    Gallifrey endures. blackphoenix's Avatar
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    I just want the book to be fun again.

    Dial down the appearances of the Greek gods, phase out the psychotic, man-hating, baby killing Amazons, bring in updated versions of Diana's classic villains (Queen Clea, Doctor Poison, Cheetah, Blue Snowman, etc.)bring back the Invisible Plane and the REAL Paradise Island/Amazons, and you may have a book I'd want to read.


    I'd also prefer her to have a secret identity so she wouldn't have to be a goddess 24/7. Let Diana Prince come back so she can go on dates (with updated versions of Bird-Man--now a Thanagarian--and Mer-Boy--now Atlantean royalty) and relax in front of the telly with Etta Candy (and I want the plump, redheded Etta back, the one who pigs out on junk food and goes *WOO!* all the time).
    Thus do I write the first chapter of my new scripture. And the first verse is "Let it all burn."

    PHOENIX INVICTUS!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    You can keep saying this, but unfortunately that doesn't make it true.

    During Byrne's run she was the personification of Truth and became the Goddess of Truth.
    Except Diana was never was a personification of anything, she was the Champion of Truth, she wasn't truth in a human/amazon body. Death as a grim reaper, goth girl or whatever walking down the street is a personification, Diana championed truth.

    As for Byrne...thankfully Diana abandoned godhood and reclaimed her book from the support cast overrunning it...and Byrne's run is mostly forgotten.

  11. #41
    Hawkman No More! Hawk_fan's Avatar
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    Yes I miss the pre-flashpoint Wonder Woman, Steve Trevor as her love interest and the Diana Prince identity.

    I think Diana is a champion of peace more so than truth. I don't have a problem with her having an alter ego
    where she can get some down time away from the public eye. It has also helped Diana locate problems/crime/evil
    where she can be best used as Wonder Woman. Being in the public eye 24/7 makes her vunerable to all sorts of attacks
    ....be it villains or public scrutiny. Not very healthy IMO.

    This DCnU version has made her (and the Amazons) more dark and brutish. This is just not Wonder Woman to me.
    Having Zeus as her father destroys her origin and makes her generic...thus ruining the foundation of her character.

    Last edited by Hawk_fan; 05-06-2012 at 10:54 AM.

  12. #42
    BANNED jancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    You can keep saying this, but unfortunately that doesn't make it true.

    During Byrne's run she was the personification of Truth and became the Goddess of Truth.

    Others have touched on this theme and it has since faded into history, but it is incorrect to say 'never' the personification of anything.

    You may disagree with what the writers did, but that doesn't change that they did it.
    What I meant was that it wasn't part of the ORIGINAL concept of Wonder Woman. She was not created by William Marston to be any of those things. Subsequent writers ADDED those things, distorting the original concept, the essence.

    Its like if I took Batman, and decided I wanted to write him as him never having his parents killed, and that he fights crime from his home, still living with his mom.

  13. #43
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancy View Post
    What I meant was that it wasn't part of the ORIGINAL concept of Wonder Woman. She was not created by William Marston to be any of those things. Subsequent writers ADDED those things, distorting the original concept, the essence.

    Its like if I took Batman, and decided I wanted to write him as him never having his parents killed, and that he fights crime from his home, still living with his mom.
    It's more like what if you'd want to write a Batman with a yellow symbol on his chest, who has a veritable army of Robins, ex-Robins, Batgirls and various others under his wing, is pals with Superman, and never ever would use guns or kill.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  14. #44
    What the?!? jack-be-nimble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancy View Post
    What I meant was that it wasn't part of the ORIGINAL concept of Wonder Woman. She was not created by William Marston to be any of those things. Subsequent writers ADDED those things, distorting the original concept, the essence.

    Its like if I took Batman, and decided I wanted to write him as him never having his parents killed, and that he fights crime from his home, still living with his mom.

    But that's the evolution of these characters. Wonder Woman, Superman and Batman have each had their mythos and stories added to, changed, updated, revised and altered since their original appearances.

  15. #45
    BANNED jancy's Avatar
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    NOT the true Wonder women



    Quote Originally Posted by jack-be-nimble View Post
    But that's the evolution of these characters. Wonder Woman, Superman and Batman have each had their mythos and stories added to, changed, updated, revised and altered since their original appearances.
    I think the point I'm trying to make here is that Wonder Woman is NOT like Batman, superman, or ANY of the other superheroes, in that she had an essence about her that never really got fully continued. Whereas Batman's essence still flowed with each evolution of the character.
    Wonder woman never had an evolution. Because the writers after Marston never really understood what he created. And so every "evolution" thereafter wasn't truly an evolution.

    And when I said Wonder Woman was never the personifcation of anything, I meant the TRUE Wonder Woman was never the personification of truth or anything else.

    The TRUE Wonder Woman was simply the allegory of the ideal woman.


    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    It's more like what if you'd want to write a Batman with a yellow symbol on his chest, who has a veritable army of Robins, ex-Robins, Batgirls and various others under his wing, is pals with Superman, and never ever would use guns or kill.
    No, its not quite like that. You'd see it differently if you just realize that nearly everything they did to Wonder Woman after Marston died just didn't stick with the essence/vibe of the character that Marston intended. Whereas the things done to Batman after Bob Kane were viable and still true to Batman, and significant of all, not CONTRADICTORY to the essence of Batman. Because the Batman character is simple.

    Wondy is complex.

    Being the personification of Truth contradicts what WW was intended to be....

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