Here we talk Classic Superman. DCnU need not apply. (Sorry)

[Mat001]

I liked the Kents in the Byrne reboot (though not the way John Byrne drew them), but it still bothered me. Thing is when there was a Superboy (Superman as a boy), there were plenty of stories to be told about their relationship with Clark--because those stories could be told in the ongoing adventures of Superboy. Once Superboy is removed, Byrne's only way to explore that relationship (other than flashbacks) was to keep them alive.

This is a curious thing--not just with Superman but with many other DC characters. You have one continuity--Superboy--which develops several concepts (Smallville, fleshing out Ma and Pa Kent, Lana Lang, Krypto, Mon-El, the Legion of Super-Heroes, and so on) that didn't exist in the grown up Superman story originally. You then take out the central element from all that--Superboy--but everything else remains.

Heck the whole Smallville TV series was made possible by all those classic Superboy stories--but the one thing that is Superboy is removed.

DC's comic book continuity is weird. Characters come into being spawn hundreds of concepts and then those same characters are extracted from continuity, but the concepts they spawned remain. I think if I was a kid discovering comics now, it would leave me shaking my head. Because anyone who looks into the history of a character (whether it's Sinestro, Supergirl, or Hawkman) will soon encounter all these walls of continuity corruption.

It's only an issue if they let it become one. Many newcommers have already encountered these things because all of the media that exists outside of the comics realm, on top of which you also have readily available information resources like Wikipedia and comic book message boards. And not only that, we also live in an age where remakes and reinterpretations of fictional characters exist. How many versions of Dracula are out there that differ from the source material? Or Frankenstein? How about Sherlock Holmes? Transformers has multiple interpretations and continuities.

The death of the Kent's completed the transformation of Superboy to Superman. It was a watershed moment and moved the character forward.

The Kent's alive serves no purpose... Their purpose was to raise Superboy and instill their value system, quietly in a place of anonymity. Keeping them alive seemed to retard his growth - he was seen as needing them to make his big decisions - and having Superman do it 8 times a year for 20 years led to the perception that Superman was basically ineffectual and unable to lead, needing to consult with everyone he knew before making any decisions as if he had no core values...

Funny, we have political leaders that have to consult with others before making a decision? Or corporate leadership. Having them alive didn't retard his growth. Yes, he went to them for advice, as a lot of people do. You're never too old to ask for advice, be it from your parents or someone older and more wiser in the ways of things.

It also contributed to the Big Blue Boy Scout moniker thats still a stink on that version of Superman.

1. He had that stink before his parents were retconned as being alive.

2. Batman is also a boy scout. He's always gleaning wisdom from Alfred. Always relying on him to take care of himself. Yet I don't see people calling for Alfred to be dead.

The comics themselves really didn't play the "running home to Smallville to Mom and Dad to find out what to do next" much beyond a few scenes here and there over the span of hundreds of issues over 25 years, and it is those examples that those that decry Superman have seized on to bolster their claims that Superman is a boring, ineffectual Boyscout.

Indeed. The only times he went to them for advice was "Crisis At Hand", a two part story from October of 1992 and largely during the broken engagement storyline. Most of the time he was just visiting the Kents or having to rescue them, or having them rescue him. Or they were doing him a solid like taking care of Supergirl/Matrix and Conner. When they weren't important, they were kept to the side until the writers had need of them. After "Reign Of The Supermen", the Kents mostly disappeared until "The Fall Of Metropolis" when they took part in Lana and Pete's wedding. Then we saw them in "Zero Hour" and "Peer Pressure". They had a big part in "The Death Of Clark Kent" and when that arc ended, they were left driving around the country until the farm was rebuilt. By which point we had Lois breaking off her engagement to Clark and they appeared off and on throughout until the wedding. They then returned for an appearance at the start of the energy powers era, before disappearing until "Superman Forever" and then popping up in "The Doomsday Wars". That was all within a five year period. Different from a live action series where they were contracted as regular cast members.

Yet the Smallville TV show proved you can do a whole series about Clark's becoming Superman. This is the failure of imagination among the Superman rebooters in 1986. Even if you don't have "Superboy" that doesn't mean you can't still do a series about young Clark, as Legends of the Dark Knight told stories about Batman's early days.

And we had those stories. "World Of Metropolis" #3 had Clark, sans costume, doing heroic deeds in Metropolis before starting college. Superman #12 also had that with the reintroduction of Lori Lemaris to the lore. "Peer Pressure" from 1994, the four issue arc that came out during "Zero Month", had Clark going around sans costume to do good deeds. "The Odyssey" was a graphic novel dedicated to showcasing a Clark Kent without his costume, during his time in Bhurtran. The first issue of "For All Seasons" served as the inspiration for "Smallville" and was why Loeb not only got the job as a regular writer on the Superman comic, but on the show for seasons two through four. The first few issues of "Birthright" covered that as well. Johns and Busiek played around with that early in their run, mostly because at the time, they couldn't use the name Superboy and couldn't show Clark in costume.

Of course, just as John Byrne was getting Superman off the ground, there was the Superboy TV show and the resulting comic book spin-off (that had to hurt).

Byrne later admitted that there was some regret when it came to the Legion, but it didn't hurt him at all. No more than "Superman IV" hurt by having the Kents dead and Lex as a weapons dealer, escaped from prison and a mad scientist. Hell, he even wrote an early draft of that film.

[Kilgore Trout]

Funny, we have political leaders that have to consult with others before making a decision? Or corporate leadership. Having them alive didn't retard his growth. Yes, he went to them for advice, as a lot of people do. You're never too old to ask for advice, be it from your parents or someone older and more wiser in the ways of things.

Even funnier?

His name is Superman. Not Moderateman. Not Obama, or Bush or Palin.

Remember "There is a right and a wrong in the universe and that distinction is not hard to make."?

Yeah, well it seems pretty stupid to say when you have to go ask your Mom first.

You're always so full of yourself.

[It's Superman]

[It's Superman]

I LOVE the design of Superman on "Young Justice".

[Esoteric J]

I like it too. Needs to be a bit more handsome and masculine though, in terms of the face.

[It's Superman]

I like it too. Needs to be a bit more handsome and masculine though, in terms of the face.

Agreed, but the physique is perfect for Superman.

[JoeP]

I LOVE the design of Superman on "Young Justice".

Awesome. Though, I prefer the cape longer.

[Esoteric J]

Agreed, but the physique is perfect for Superman.

Yup I think it suits him well.

Awesome. Though, I prefer the cape longer.

I never thought Superman needed a long cape, of all the Superheros.



Short cape is pretty win when done right.

[JoeP]

I never thought Superman needed a long cape, of all the Superheros.



Short cape is pretty win when done right.

No doubt it can work. I'm just saying it looks a bit more impressive when it's longer. To me, it makes Supes look more powerful somehow.

[It's Superman]

[marshal99]

Hell yeah, Simonson and Bogdonove and Janke were a great team. In my opinion, Bogdonove had the best art work at the time. So stylish, dynamic, full of action and his Superman still retained the Golden age Superman look.

Jon is more old school art. His golden age superman during the dominus arc certainly captures that era.

[BBally]

Even funnier?

His name is Superman. Not Moderateman. Not Obama, or Bush or Palin.

Remember "There is a right and a wrong in the universe and that distinction is not hard to make."?

Yeah, well it seems pretty stupid to say when you have to go ask your Mom first.

You're always so full of yourself.

Look who's talking

Seriously dude, not cool not cool at all.

[It's Superman]

Jon is more old school art. His golden age superman during the dominus arc certainly captures that era.

This is awesome stuff.

[It's Superman]

[Last Son]

Even funnier?

His name is Superman. Not Moderateman. Not Obama, or Bush or Palin.

Remember "There is a right and a wrong in the universe and that distinction is not hard to make."?

Yeah, well it seems pretty stupid to say when you have to go ask your Mom first.

You're always so full of yourself.

I'm generally for a more pre-crisis style status quo (Kents dead, Lex as a mad scientist criminal and not a businessman) but I have never understood the logic that the Kents have to die for Superman to mature. We don't have concentration camps for old people to be systematically executed once they're done instilling wisdom and morals in their children. To be blunt, it's one of the dumbest recurring arguments from old school fans, right up there with "He must be infinitely powerful" even though the character started off with limits.