how would you sync YJ superboy and nuDCU superboy?

[13th Superman]

3.If Superboy gets his powers from Earth's yellow sun does that mean he'll developSupermans other powers like heat vision and flight?

Greg responds...

*He won't, but that's because of his human DNA.

greg weisman on his gargoyle page,where he answers all the YJ questions by the truckload.

so we have two options- stay as he is,or my opinion TTK.

Or third option, something else. Something could happen with the human DNA, or Superman could help out in some way. I'm going to wait and see. As for the image of the cracked pod, its also possible he punched it. You do have accounts of people acting out physical motions while sleeping. He did have a dream when he battled Superman.

[13th Superman]

damn how the heck can anybody even remotley start to talk about how to sync the show and comic version when we cant even agree on different comiv versions.

i have been a non wavering fan of SB since the Reign of the supermen,and i have alwaysenjoyed every version so far.yes they are very different,you could even say not the same character,but i always find that they all are superboy.

because there was no definitve SB the flashpoint reboot really was DCs chance to straighten out all of it,keep what was important,and throw out every lil bit of the rest.i think scott did a pretty good job of that,he has certain things that make you think of the kesel version,and certain things that make you think of the geoff version,then brand new everything else,to make one cohesive SB going forward.

i think scott went with geoffs clone of kal and lex,but with kesels TTK as his main power.personality wise i think its a lil closer to geoffs,but the cockiness of kesels.lookwise gave him a supersuit kinda like his second kesel suit,with fingerless gloves to boot,but had the S shield the black and red from geoffs version.the rest i think is scott,and im happy with this.

Well Kesel and John's version both weakened to Kryptonite and were solar fueled. If Scott's version included that with his tk field being passive I guess I'd be happier. You can still make interesting stories by having him unconscious and thus turning his field off. He can even use his powers creatively like making armor made of lead when encountering kryptonite or telekinetically melting it.

[stephens2177]

you know the more i hear debate over who is SB or not,the more i appreciate the reboot and the new lobdell SB.clean slate,one direction,no more wondering who the "real" SB is anymore.

the kesel version was all about TTK,and the johns version was all about kryptonian powers,so why dont the YJ SB find a happy medium between the two,weaken both sets of powers then add them together.instead if full krypronian powers,give him golden age powers only,and instead of full TK or passive TTK,make his TTK limited to touch,and also make it a conscious ability,like heat vision would be for superman.solar battery for all his powers,kryptonite hurts,conner kent his Easrth identity,and kon-el his kryptonian name

[13th Superman]

you know the more i hear debate over who is SB or not,the more i appreciate the reboot and the new lobdell SB.clean slate,one direction,no more wondering who the "real" SB is anymore.

the kesel version was all about TTK,and the johns version was all about kryptonian powers,so why dont the YJ SB find a happy medium between the two,weaken both sets of powers then add them together.instead if full krypronian powers,give him golden age powers only,and instead of full TK or passive TTK,make his TTK limited to touch,and also make it a conscious ability,like heat vision would be for superman.solar battery for all his powers,kryptonite hurts,conner kent his Easrth identity,and kon-el his kryptonian name

The kesel version was ttk and more. Remember Black Zero and the Sins of Youth Superboy as reminders of what he's like at his full potential. Funny, if the DCNu version was like what you describe for the YJ Superboy I'd be perfectly fine with that.

[TomorrowTeen]

The only one blurring the line between fact and opinion is you. 99% of things posted on a comic book message board are opinions. It goes without saying.

I have stated what my opinions are and I don't pretend that they are the absolute truth. No one has a monopoly on that. So you can stop right there.

Yes he did mature, and inspite of that his personality was still completely different from what Johns wrote. When he found out he was a clone of an asshole like Paul Westfield, he was disappointed, but got over. It's a complete contrast to how he kept moping about going evil when he found out he was half Lex.

So you didn't like how he was written. Fine. I on the other hand was fine with it for the most part. Lex is a much bigger deal than Westfield so I could buy that it was tougher to get over. We're just going to have to disagree on that and leave it at that.

[C-Dot]

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. You're happy to think I'm wrong and I respect you're opinion, but that's what I believe how he was looked at by others who didn't read about him or who just had a caricaturized view of him. Look I personally liked his old personality. I know full well how he progressed. I have every appearance of his since Adventure of Superman 500. I know full well about his life. Like the time he accidentally got Lois' pilot killed, learning from his mistakes with the BEM and Knockout, the discovery of Paul Westfield being his DNA donor, to Tana's death and so on. Arguably Joe Kelly's run regressed his development a bit like when he was practicing with Guardian and his relationship with Serling. But that's me being nitpicky. For many people who never knew much about him before when he first appeared and before John's retcon, he was still looked at as a clone of Superman. Yes Superman is from Krypton, but for Superboy, the public at large see him as a teenage clone of Superman who hasn't had Clark's upbringing. Again, for many people, that is the basic premise of Superboy. When you get into details about his creation and powers, that's when the confusion starts. As fans, we are in the know. We nitpick about details you just discussed, but I'm looking at the broader picture. You'll probably disagree with that too. That's fine by me.

You generalize that "the public at large see him as a teenage clone of Superman who hasn't had Clark's upbringing" and that is not true. In fact, the view of what Superboy stretch the gamut from to "the teenage clone based on Superman" to "clone of Superman" to exactly what Kesel set out to do....."human clone of Superman". There are many viewpoints out there and not one linear view. Some people didn't read Superboy but knew who he was by other means and other series.

But let's get to the heart of this disagreement. I read before Reign. During Funeral For Friend when Superboy's origin was actually foreshadowed by Kesel. Before Death. And actually grew up during that era. I own every appearance and know enough to know that Johns retcon completely changed that character and read like someone who didn't read much of Superboy. Not opinion but fact from book. You stated things that I vehemently disagree with because of what I actually read in the books and what was going on before Titans.

Superboy had 100+ books. Annuals. Two team books. Other additional team up books. Starring role in several spinoff media from video games to comic adaptations of the DCAU. Action figures. And he was all over the DCU in major storylines. This character was prominent and known long before Johns ever did Titans. So to act like Johns gave this character great prominence because of a retcon with Kesel being "second known" is not even close to being accurate. To say he would have faded into obscurity if it weren't for Johns is grossly inaccurate as well. You don't know if another writer would have stepped in and pitched a new series after Graduation Day (Dylan Horrocks Superboy > Johns) or if he would show up in a new book as he was doing in Batgirl. They went with "Graduation Day to Teen Titans" and Johns got him so he could do his years in the making personal retcon that was rejected twice by DC. Retcons happen. Reboots happen. But this was done because Johns wanted his Luthor story and it was presented as "this is what really happened" when it wasn't even like that or even made sense. He did not "save the character from obscurity" because Superboy was never in that position to begin with. If you think so, take a look at those books he showed up in from before August 2003. He was good.

And what was gained? Redundant powers (Again, if he was always meant to have Kryptonian powers when he was aged, why did he have tactile telekinesis and mods?). Two people instead of one donor when one couldn't be cloned. A motive for his creation that was nonsensical (don't want dead Superman back and stop group from cloning him, yet I'll clone one with the guys I stopped to get close to a dead guy). A personality that didn't echo what was shown or gained in the past. Rehash of story that was already done. Boatload of angst that is even shown in Young Justice.....a 180 in character. Obsession with who he was cloned from. Several out of character moments (especially xenophobe Luthor). And turning him from an original character with an original premise to literally being about Superman (a Bizarro, a Luthor, etc.). What was done to Match, the anti Bizarro, was just plain wrong.

The basic premise of the character according to Karl Kesel was to create a character who was Superboy in his own way and no one else. It wasn't broke and it didn't need fixing. What it needed was a writer who actually knew who the character was along with his basics to use what was built to create something that new and old fans would dig and recognize. That didn't happen with Titans. It created a new character and it's ironically the same thing people say about DCNu Superboy.

[C-Dot]

Yes he did mature, and inspite of that his personality was still completely different from what Johns wrote. When he found out he was a clone of an asshole like Paul Westfield, he was disappointed, but got over. It's a complete contrast to how he kept moping about going evil when he found out he was half Lex.

Exactly.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6508/27358052.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1161/49646805.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5819/42266686.jpg


And after that, he was not angsting and going off the deep end. When he was stuck at 16, he got over. When he lost his powers, he got over and was more determined to be Superboy without powers.

[stephens2177]

The kesel version was ttk and more. Remember Black Zero and the Sins of Youth Superboy as reminders of what he's like at his full potential. Funny, if the DCNu version was like what you describe for the YJ Superboy I'd be perfectly fine with that.

if the kesel version was about other things like "kryptonian like" powers,then the johns version www also about TTK,just limited,so lets keep it simple.

so your saying its good for nuSB,but not YJ SB? or both? i say its perfect for the YJ version,he would be a equal or close to a kryptonian,but still able to get knocked around.

the nuSB is NOT the kesel or johns version,so should not be looked at or judged as they would be.he has TTK,not kryptonian powers,he isnt a solar battery or weak to kryptonite,so what,its a new kon,nothing is the same,or means the same,enjoy or not enjoy this new character on his own merit.

his TK is different than other TK users because his has a field around his body that mimics physical abioities,that makes him unique,besides his TTK sesnes,he is the psionic superman.

[Theozilla]

You generalize that "the public at large see him as a teenage clone of Superman who hasn't had Clark's upbringing" and that is not true. In fact, the view of what Superboy stretch the gamut from to "the teenage clone based on Superman" to "clone of Superman" to exactly what Kesel set out to do....."human clone of Superman". There are many viewpoints out there and not one linear view. Some people didn't read Superboy but knew who he was by other means and other series.

It is obvious you're very passionate about the 90s characterization of Superboy, but I think what 13th Superman might have meant of by "public perception of Superboy " before Johns retcon was that he was always known as "clone of Superman" to less comic/continuity-savy people. I know that it is all I knew about him in the late 90s and early 2000s (I was in elementary school and did not start reading periodical comics until 2008), all I knew about Superboy according to DC Hero handbooks or kid books was that he was "a clone of Superman". Yeah, Johns changed a lot of Superboy's characterization, but he was still Superboy, and plenty of other characters have gone through drastic changes before. (FYI Johns Teen Titans is partially what got me into DC Comics, so I admit I do have preference for the Johns and TV Young Justice characterization of Superboy)

[stephens2177]

the only versions that matter now is the nuLobdell version and the YJ version,the kesel and johns versions are gone forever,so we can stop talking about them anytime now.

the YJ and nuLobdell are all there is,and they are opposite sides of the same coin to each other.

[TomorrowTeen]

the only versions that matter now is the nuLobdell version and the YJ version,the kesel and johns versions are gone forever,so we can stop talking about them anytime now.

the YJ and nuLobdell are all there is,and they are opposite sides of the same coin to each other.

As much as that fact pains me, you're absolutely right on that. All that exists is the basic premise/idea that there is a clone of superman trying to find his way despite many obstacles in his way.

[stephens2177]

As much as that fact pains me, you're absolutely right on that. All that exists is the basic premise/idea that there is a clone of superman trying to find his way despite many obstacles in his way.

actually SB now is either a living weapon or meant to replace superman of he turns away from the light,so absolutley in no way was he meamnt to have the same rosey positive reason for life as he has before kesel or johns.

[TomorrowTeen]

actually SB now is either a living weapon or meant to replace superman of he turns away from the light,so absolutley in no way was he meamnt to have the same rosey positive reason for life as he has before kesel or johns.

No I meant they are both trying to find a reason for being on their own terms instead of what their creators had in mind.

[stephens2177]

i think the YJ SB and the nuSB are so opposite ,that they are very similar,do you get what im saying?

[stephens2177]

awesome second young justice invasion trailer,SB is cool as hell in his new gear,cassie is in it too.

im hoping both the YJ and nuSB doesnt do the whole "am i good or bad,because of my daddy lex" thing,instead i would like to see SB think lex is his responsibility cause he is his dad.

i love being a SB fan,both versions are so awesome.