Yes he did mature, and inspite of that his personality was still completely different from what Johns wrote. When he found out he was a clone of an asshole like Paul Westfield, he was disappointed, but got over. It's a complete contrast to how he kept moping about going evil when he found out he was half Lex.No, not completely different. I wanted him to be less emo(due to the woe is me Luthor's son bit), and smile a bit more like he used to. Adventure Comics under Geoff was heading towards that route. However part of the reason why I can say they are the same individual (at least in my eyes) was that I saw him as having grown more mature thanks in part to events like the death of Tana, Gaurdian (sort of), Impulse's scout, Cooper, the destruction of his apartment, meeting Black Zero, and so forth. Afterwards he stays with the Kents. So yeah, I figured he mellowed out after all that. It showed growth and that was fine with me.
To your second quote, I perfectly agree with you. It was redundant. I glossed over it because at that time there was a transition going on in the Super books. Kara Zor El came back (and we lost Linda Danvers)and Superman was going through a retcon with Mark Waid's Superman:Birthright. When all that happened, all the things in the 90's changed or disappeared. Look at John Byrne's Cassandra Sandsmark versus what happened to her in the later Wonder Woman books. Everyone seemed to be getting updated and Superboy was no exception. With these "updates/retcons" came retelling of similar stories told in the past to reach out to newer readers or to give added dimensions. Did some of them need to happen? Yes and no. I'll admit that some characters may not have survived without the changes. I lost Matrix and then came to absolutely love Linda Danvers. When the no extra Kryptonian mandate was lifted Kara came back and I think that's when it was ok to make Superboy half kryptonian. I have to admit that without that change, I believe Superboy may have disappeared like Matrix/Linda or at least faded into obscurity.
Last post, it would actually be cool if Clara Kendall aka Tomorrow Woman was Superboy's mom. She was a an android created by Prof Ivo and TO Morrow but was later turned to a human with her powers in tact. It would help explain much.
damn how the heck can anybody even remotley start to talk about how to sync the show and comic version when we cant even agree on different comiv versions.
i have been a non wavering fan of SB since the Reign of the supermen,and i have alwaysenjoyed every version so far.yes they are very different,you could even say not the same character,but i always find that they all are superboy.
because there was no definitve SB the flashpoint reboot really was DCs chance to straighten out all of it,keep what was important,and throw out every lil bit of the rest.i think scott did a pretty good job of that,he has certain things that make you think of the kesel version,and certain things that make you think of the geoff version,then brand new everything else,to make one cohesive SB going forward.
i think scott went with geoffs clone of kal and lex,but with kesels TTK as his main power.personality wise i think its a lil closer to geoffs,but the cockiness of kesels.lookwise gave him a supersuit kinda like his second kesel suit,with fingerless gloves to boot,but had the S shield the black and red from geoffs version.the rest i think is scott,and im happy with this.
Dont mess with the "S"
Mutation is a bitch
And I'm sorry, but Paul Westfield actually HAD a place in Superboy's story and origin like Tana, Dubbilex, etc. Luthor did not. Westfield ran the organization that created Superboy. Luthor did not. Westfield had motive and reason. Luthor did not. Westfield WANTED Superman resurrected. Luthor did not. So it's not even a comparison as to who made sense in the origin. You may think Westfield is this and that, but actual text in the story > opinion. He wasn't Luthor or trying to be Luthor. He wasn't a "wacked out scientist" either (Johns didn't even know that Westfield wasn't a scientist which showed me he didn't read much of it). He was in control of an organization and used his pull to create a Superman to replace the fallen one. And it made sense. A character who is actually in a story makes sense than one who was far away from it. Lex Luthor had no business in that origin and it totally contradicted his stance of wanting Superman to stay dead while Lex was in control of Metropolis again. And everything he did from stopping Cadmus in the first place to cloning Supergirl made no sense. And his reasoning? To create a clone to get close to a DEAD character? I mean come on. You mean to tell me you or whoever else can't see just how off that was in that Insiders arc (especially when Superboy had no mental codewords in him)?
All Johns retcon did was bulldoze a big chunk of Superboy's stories and shoehorned him into "Good because of Superman and evil because of Lex" with the character acting a complete 180 and becoming a different version. Reading the past series, Superboy was never about his genes or being Superman. At all. And it wasn't just him. Match and Project Cadmus were changed into something they were not. (In the latter's case, lackeys to Luthor when they were Luthor's enemies....because he personally stopped them for doing the very thing they ended up doing and that was making a clone of Superman.).
Last edited by C-Dot; 04-20-2012 at 01:38 AM.
3.If Superboy gets his powers from Earth's yellow sun does that mean he'll developSupermans other powers like heat vision and flight?
*He won't, but that's because of his human DNA.
greg weisman on his gargoyle page,where he answers all the YJ questions by the truckload.
so we have two options- stay as he is,or my opinion TTK.
Dont mess with the "S"
Mutation is a bitch
He seemingly had similar abilities to Superman on the surface, but it ended up being radically different. He did things with his powers that Superman couldn't do and it was unique to him (until someone thought Chris Kent should rip him off). They could have just given him all of Superman's abilities and made him Clark Jr., but Kesel did it in an original way with extra thrown in. He was different and stood out just like the other Team Superman members.
And yes, "Kon-El" and "Conner Kent" are two different characters in species, character, powers, and core personality. When I first read Teen Titans #1, it wasn't just the "cloned from Superman" blurb that took me off guard (Me: "Since when is Superboy a clone of Superman and a scientist? They couldn't even clone Superman and who is the scientist?!") or the Lex mess (Me: "Did the writer even read Reign? Lex didn't even know about Superboy and tried to stop Cadmus from cloning Superman."). It was Superboy accrediting his character and who he was to Superman's genes overpowering a "whacked out scientist" instead of his own person.
Superboy was never about being who he was cloned from (because he sure wasn't Paul Westfield) or his genes (that had no "evil" in them plus they were radically changed). He was about the connection he had with the "S" and being Superboy, his own man, in his own unique way. Same as Steel, who wasn't Kryptonian as well, but was about the "S". It was "The adventures of Kon-El as a boy" and not Clark/Kal-El. This was the kid who was the cocky, trashtalking Superboy and didn't take crap from anyone (even Batman)....yet he was fun-loving, earnest, opinionated, strong willed, loyal to his friends and enjoyed being a hero and being alive. And we saw the kid grow under Kesel's pen to Marz to Kelly onward. He was still the same character to the core even when his world was rocked by death or when things changed or etc. Teen Titans was not that kid. Or even a matured version. He was a new take under a writer's pen that didn't match anything. Johns described him as a "hometown jock" and that was never his personality in any Superboy book whatsoever.
When he later questioned about having a soul and acting angst filled, that was it for me. This was supposed to be the same kid who said he had a soul because he existed blubbering about that based on that retcon? And it only got worse when it came to more angst and right back to the Luthor mess with a checklist about what Luthor or Clark would do instead of what Kon would do. Or before Blackest Night when he said he didn't use tactile telekinesis so he could be "like Superman" or no meaning reaction to Dubbilex's death or anything? But it was that first Teen Titans book that made me go "that's not Kon". And from what I read from other readers, I wasn't alone in that.
Last edited by C-Dot; 04-20-2012 at 01:22 AM.
His established personality was not dated by any means. As someone else stated here, the character grew before Titans and kept his core just like other characters did. Nightwing? Gar Logan? Wally West? Ditto. The list goes on of characters that grew and still kept their personalities. And being a “90’s character” had nothing to do with his core personality. You say that as if he was the same character in tone for years with no progression whatsoever and that's an untruth. Adventure Comics was still the same tune as Teen Titans. Still obsessing over his “heritage”, still “good because of Superman, evil because of Luthor”, still trying to be Superman/Clark, etc. It was not like the original version at all and the only single thing even reflected was a one page throwaway cameo of villains from Superboy’s old series. It was a continuation of Johns’ Superboy as expected and he acted as such.
And you’re wrong about “things change and eras change” because while things change, some things are still kept in regards to established characters in comics. There is a big difference between Superman being a Kryptonian with a retconned Krypton still exploding vs. Superman being the son of human Jonathan Kent and Kryptonian Lara Lor Van with a different origin and acting like a jerk ala Supreme with new powers. Or Carter Hall vs. Katar Hol. Not the same character despite name. And that is what happened with Kon-El (Kesel) and Conner Kent (Johns). They are not the same (one wasn't "made as a weapon", could actually date a relative of Superman, 100% human, didn't have redundant powers, etc.) and actually reading the comics and seeing where the differences lie shows that.
Last edited by C-Dot; 04-20-2012 at 11:29 AM.