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  1. #61
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    im starting to get the feeling you are arguing just to argue.

    i get your points,but this show wasnt created out of thin air,they were created from existing characters,and to do a character right,you do them justice,by including the fundamentals of the character.wally as a grownup is with linda and has somewhat mastered the speedforce.if it was bart on the show i would expect him to be a hyper thought second kinda kid,but all their powers are basically the same,but for adult wallys speedforce tricks and barts memory and dupes.

    BUT kon never had kals powers from the start,he was always different,that was his thing,to be different than kal.that is a fundamental of kon,and somethings that make him different is being a clone,having attitude,having TTK,having lexs dna also,and wearijg black with the S.all of that is being represented now,but for his TTK,a power that is a huge part of who he is,just ask him,he will tell you all about.

    TTK is SB,just like being a clone is SB,thats why
    Hey stephens, I'm sorry if you think that I'm arguing just to argue cuz I'm not. All I'm doing is trying understand why you say that TK absolutely has to be part of him when this is a Superboy from a parallel earth.

    I mean during Morrison's Final Crisis were we not introduced to at least 50 different Supermen? All of these characters were the Supermen of their respective worlds. And among them we had guys that didn't even look like Superman at all. We even had Cap. Atom from earth 4 who had quantum powers and could grow to different sizes, multiply himself and use the influence and use the 4 laws as he pleases.

    Was that anything like Superman? No. But was he interesting and still considered a Superman never the less. The original Cap. Atom who was in the same use as the question was actually based off of Superman and that is why Grant considered him a Superman.

    We can also look at Cap. Marvel who is a magical Superman....You see where I'm going with this right? All of them are Superman just changed around enough to become a Superman and something more to make them there own character but the idea of what makes Superman who he is still remains. Why can YJ Superboy of earth 16 have the same?? He meet the only criteria needed to: He is from a new earth and he's not the Superboy you grew up with.

    Also in the 1980s Superman was given TTK to explain his powers so even though he still showed all of his normal powers they in reality were not his normal powers. They were all explained mostly with TTK.

    -Instead of having hard skin he had TTK
    -Instead of having super strength he had TTK....so on and so forth

    Now look at Superboy YJ and Superboy 90's:
    -both have strength
    -both have durability

    If they come up with a way for him to fly then they will have that. What I'm getting at is that You saw how they changed Superman in a pretty big way in the 80s but he was still Superman. Why can't Superboy do the same??

    Yo gotta see that this is a new and different take on the character.

    Again though stephens I'm truly sorry if I came off as just arguing but I'm not I'm debating. But I gotta still let you know that I respect you and your thoughts (I always have) and I see you as a friend.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post

    If they come up with a way for him to fly then they will have that. What I'm getting at is that You saw how they changed Superman in a pretty big way in the 80s but he was still Superman. Why can't Superboy do the same??

    Yo gotta see that this is a new and different take on the character.
    I don't think it's an accurate comparison. Superman has been pretty consistent. They change a lot of things, but ultimately his motivations, core personality and basic powers like strength, flight, heat vision, etc. remain consistent. It's the same Superman, and people who don't read comics won't find much difference. However, the 90s Superboy, Johns Superboy, Lobdell Superboy, and YJ Superboy are all completely different characters with only superficial resemblances in their name and being a "clone" of Superman (and even that is actually different when you get to the details).

  3. #63
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomorrowTeen View Post
    The man's character has changed over the years as well. He went from being the "Champion of the oppressed and the downtrodden" to a father figure upholding the status quo to a kind of Messiah-like character over time. And no his powers did not stay the same. The nature of his powers also changed. He went from acquiring his abilities from earth's lesser gravity to a mix of sunlight and low gravity to all sunlight. But aside from that you're missing the point. You're stilling focusing on his powers when that was not what IIt's not about the powers. If you stay focused on that then you're not really talking about the actual character at all. The idea of a clone of Superman trying to find his own way without the benefit of a Kent upbringing. That's it. The powers is just a distraction. Powers don't need to factor into it because ultimately it doesn't matter. My ideal combo would be to take Johns Superman/Luthor DNA origin combined with the rebellious, optimistic nature of Kesel's version and you're done. You're way too focused on just his powers and that doesn't lead to any kind of growth for the character. He's trying to become a hero. The key is that he wants to become every bit the hero Clark is, the greatest superhero of them all, even though he doesn't have the benefit of Clark's upbringing and that's further complicated by his genetic connection to Lex Luthor. He's an imperfect version of Superman trying to achieve what is seemingly impossible to many but we love him for it. He'll make mistakes but he's going to keep trying even if it kills him. It's a lofty goal but we sure would like to see the guy do it. It doesn't and shouldn't matter what power he has to go about performing that task. That is why I love this character's story and feel invested in his adventures. Focusing on just his powers comes across as way too superficial to me and ignores the essence of what makes this character such an appealing and interesting addition to the Superman mythos. If you can't get past that then I really don't know what more I can say to you.
    that was beautiful I can't agree with you more. In that post you conveyed what it means to be Superboy

    +1 all the way.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I don't think it's an accurate comparison. Superman has been pretty consistent. They change a lot of things, but ultimately his motivations, core personality and basic powers like strength, flight, heat vision, etc. remain consistent. It's the same Superman, and people who don't read comics won't find much difference. However, the 90s Superboy, Johns Superboy, Lobdell Superboy, and YJ Superboy are all completely different characters with only superficial resemblances in their name and being a "clone" of Superman (and even that is actually different when you get to the details).
    I see what you mean and I can agree somewhat but the point of what I was saying was that the power aspect was the same even though the were different. I think you can agree with that.

    If you look at it from a less detailed stand point the YJ Superboy and the Superboy we know have basically the same things: Strength, speed, durability, and a handicaps that Superman doesn't have (YJ Superboy is weaker, old 90s Superboy was weak to energy) and both are just trying to do what they can with what they have.

    I think you can agree with that right?

    Also in my post I showed that the Superman of the different earth are subject to change yet the still stay the "Superman" of there earth. Look at Ultraman he is just a flipped Superman but a Superman still.

    Superboy of YJ is from earth 16 so he should enjoy the same flexibility to an extent and I think they have been very respectful to the character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I see what you mean and I can agree somewhat but the point of what I was saying was that the power aspect was the same even though the were different. I think you can agree with that.
    I'm assuming you're being paradoxical on purpose, and if you are, can you explain this?

    If you look at it from a less detailed stand point the YJ Superboy and the Superboy we know have basically the same things: Strength, speed, durability, and a handicaps that Superman doesn't have (YJ Superboy is weaker, old 90s Superboy was weak to energy) and both are just trying to do what they can with what they have.
    This is too much of a broad generalization. I don't know any superheroes who don't try to do what they can with what they have.

    Also in my post I showed that the Superman of the different earth are subject to change yet the still stay the "Superman" of there earth. Look at Ultraman he is just a flipped Superman but a Superman still.
    This is not the same thing as the multiverse. There is a lot of consistency on how Superman appears pre-crisis, post-crisis, new-52, Superman TAS, the movies, and even in Young Justice. There might be other Earth versions of Superman, but there is a definitive Superman. There is no definitive Superboy.

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    Thanks. I really hope I got my point across.

  7. #67
    Tactile Telekinesis stephens2177's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I don't think it's an accurate comparison. Superman has been pretty consistent. They change a lot of things, but ultimately his motivations, core personality and basic powers like strength, flight, heat vision, etc. remain consistent. It's the same Superman, and people who don't read comics won't find much difference. However, the 90s Superboy, Johns Superboy, Lobdell Superboy, and YJ Superboy are all completely different characters with only superficial resemblances in their name and being a "clone" of Superman (and even that is actually different when you get to the details).
    This is not the same thing as the multiverse. There is a lot of consistency on how Superman appears pre-crisis, post-crisis, new-52, Superman TAS, the movies, and even in Young Justice. There might be other Earth versions of Superman, but there is a definitive Superman. There is no definitive Superboy.

    T H I S,and thank you god another person who gets it.

    also SBs TTK is NOT just a power,its a part of bis personality,its as important as his eye color imo,and anyone who was a avid old school 90's SB fan cant say it wasnt.
    Dont mess with the "S"

    Mutation is a bitch

    Bring back kon-el/Conner kent

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post

    also SBs TTK is NOT just a power,its a part of bis personality,its as important as his eye color imo,and anyone who was a avid old school 90's SB fan cant say it wasnt.
    Yes they can. That depends on the fan. YOU make it such an integral part of the character but not every fan agrees with you. I own every issue he ever appeared in. Been a fan from the very beginning and I don't see it that way at all. No one fan can nor should they hold a monopoly on dictating what Superboy should be like. That borders on arrogance. That's ultimately up to DC.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomorrowTeen View Post
    Yes they can. That depends on the fan. YOU make it such an integral part of the character but not every fan agrees with you. I own every issue he ever appeared in. Been a fan from the very beginning and I don't see it that way at all. No one fan can nor should they hold a monopoly on dictating what Superboy should be like. That borders on arrogance. That's ultimately up to DC.
    God forbid someone has an opinion on how he visions the character.

  10. #70
    Tactile Telekinesis stephens2177's Avatar
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    exactly....again.

    before I get anymore posts on here,read my thread starter again


    Ok i know they dont need to be,but on the other hand it would be easier for new readers and viewers if the SB they saw was the same or close to others.I know they are from different multiverse realities and already have backstory that cant sync up perfect.So how would you make them similar enough,without ommitting anything that has come before.Power,personality,lookGive a idea for both.

    now think about what you just read,and move on with a opinion,besides it wont work or you are wrong or any other witty posts that have nothing to do with my thread starter.
    Dont mess with the "S"

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    Bring back kon-el/Conner kent

  11. #71
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    I read your starter, which is fine, but you gradually started to sound like you were going from having an opinion to making declarative statements. So I felt the need to respond, without malice mind you. That's all.
    Last edited by TomorrowTeen; 04-17-2012 at 01:56 PM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    God forbid someone has an opinion on how he visions the character.


    That goes without saying as long as it's stated as an opinion.
    Last edited by TomorrowTeen; 04-17-2012 at 01:56 PM.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I'm assuming you're being paradoxical on purpose, and if you are, can you explain this?
    80s TTK Superman and silver age "the sun my tan our skin but it hardens his" same end result different means of getting there.Im sorry for not elaborating more but do you understand now?

    Also on tv we see some pretty big devastation from character all the time I just don't understand why we can't just take it as that.

    When you hear the name Superboy you think little Superman. That part must be apart of the character in some way. No it doesn't have to be in a big way it could actually be in a small way but it must be there that is the price you pay for that name.

    Now as TomorrowTeen said Superboy is basically just what Clark would be if he wasn't brought up by the Kents. His story is about a kid jumping at greatness then falling and getting right back up again. Its the story about a Kid who was made to be Superman but the twist is he's got eveything going against him to reach that goal.....and to me the YJ Superboy show that just fine the way he is.

    I'd also like to add that the DCNU Superboy shows this pretty good as well.

    Im sorry for not elaborating more but do you understand now?
    Last edited by Superlad93; 04-17-2012 at 02:26 PM.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    exactly....again.

    before I get anymore posts on here,read my thread starter again


    Ok i know they dont need to be,but on the other hand it would be easier for new readers and viewers if the SB they saw was the same or close to others.I know they are from different multiverse realities and already have backstory that cant sync up perfect.So how would you make them similar enough,without ommitting anything that has come before.Power,personality,lookGive a idea for both.

    now think about what you just read,and move on with a opinion,besides it wont work or you are wrong or any other witty posts that have nothing to do with my thread starter.
    Wow so someone can't post there own opinion now? What if their opinion is it won't work or you're wrong? And no witty posts either? Well that's rather boring. Whatever. The problem with merging all these is that you are going to omit things or change them what they were into something else. Remember Project Cadmus, Dubbliex, Guardian, the Newsboys, and Director Westfield, who Superboy was originally cloned from? What about Tana Moon, Rex, Roxy (DNA restructed by), Makoa, Earth dog Krypto, Hillary Chang, Robert Lai, Ma and Pa, etc. Those characters and settings were far more important than his powers in my opinion. They were crucial to who he was and the man he would one day become. Lobdell's Superboy has already omitted all of these but could have kept some things that were in my opinion essential. There's no way to keep all these things unless you want to make things super convoluted. He used to be completely human. A custom made Superman built from human DNA and redesigned after Kryptonian DNA much like many people believed much of our air-crafts (via undergound government installations like Cadmus) were patterned after alien crafts. The closest human/genetic equivalent to Superman that Uncle Sam could create. I thought that was awesome. Genetically programmed with a tk field to simulate super strength, invulnerability and flight, with superior senses and an optic heat blast to replicate Superman's super senses, and so on. John's retcon brought him into greater prominence and I have to admit that I did love the change. John's version is the most well known and most easily accessible to a wider audience seconded by Kesel's version.

    If it were up to me, I'd use the John's version with Kesel's version's personality and make him this nightly underground champion of the oppressed dubbed "The Metropolis Kid." Reported on by Tana Moon, sought after by publicist Rex and his daughter Roxy, chased after by Cadmus in secret. Dubbliex and Guardian would try to keep tabs on him. I'd bring back the newsboys and Westfield who is under orders by Luthor to track him. Heck I'd even throw Caitlin and Rose as workers in Cadmus ( they are about the only thing I love in the current run). As for powers, I'd give him the Golden age Superman's powers. Strength, speed, micro and macro vision, infrared, no x-ray vision , hearing and TK force blast. I don't want him having full on telekinesis yet because I'd like to convey that all his powers have some growing to do. All of the powers would be solar powered like Superman, and he'd weaken to kryptonite like Superman. He'd have an amazing array of implanted knowledge and combat skills. As for a costume, I'd have him wear what the Earth One Superman wore before wearing the costume except the hoodie would be colored black with a red "S." At night, you wouldn't see his face since it would be hidden in a silhouette with red glowing eyes when using his infrared vision. Last and not least would be Krypto. Cadmus would obtain a DNA sample of Superman's pet or Superman's on genes and splice it with the DNA of an Earth dog. Superboy escapes with this dog and befriends high schoolers like Hillary Chang and Robert Lai. He'd stay at one of their homes and call himself Conner Kent. Kent from the vague genetic memories he would continuously experience. he wouldn't know he was a clone yet, but thinks he's a kidnapped kid trying to get back his memories and get to what he believes maybe his family on a farm. He'd be confident yet borderline cocky and fun personality with a zest for life (everything is new to him) and even greater sense of justice, well his own sense of justice that would mirror the golden age Superman. That's my version.

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    Tactile Telekinesis stephens2177's Avatar
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    i might be very confident about my opinion,but its still just my opinion.

    man you thought way more than i did about this topic,i just want him to b "perceived" as the same.

    he was created by Cadmus and NOWHERE,the rest could just be background noise differences,so they are not gonna match up perfectly and thats ok

    the YJ SB has golden age kryptnian powers,friends,the t shirt/jeans look,and the conner kent name.
    the nuSB has TK powers,all alone with his monolgues,the tron suit,and the kon-el name.

    they are two sides of the same coin.they are a half of the same character to me.

    ideal SB in a general way,not super specific like 13th supermans wish
    golden age kryptonian powers with TK powers,friends,but with a lot of inner contemplation,either 2nd season longer tshirt with fingerless gloves look or tron suit/YJ solar suit with color change,named conner kent and kon-el,with a cocky,but smart attitude,who wants to be a hero,in his own way,and not live in supermans shadow.

    thats kinda a rough idea there,just to get a basic idea of what he would be like to the public.

    on his powers sure i want him to have just as much TK as he has in the comics and just as physically strong and tough on the show,but i would start him out slow both ways,thats why i said he should have 90's TTK on the show and grow into full lobdell levels when he is older,and only be enhanced strengthwise,not bending steel or bouncing bullets off him until he was much older,i like that he can still get knocked around and hurt when he isnt focussing his TK.
    Last edited by stephens2177; 04-18-2012 at 12:29 AM.
    Dont mess with the "S"

    Mutation is a bitch

    Bring back kon-el/Conner kent

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