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  1. #121
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I know . He's so vanilla in Academy, but i like him in Secret Avengers
    The ironic thing about Slotts Pym is that while the book was going on there was something I found a BIT annoying about Hank. Not to the point where I disliked the character... but there was something there. A sort of quirky vibe. Yet once that was gone (in Avengers Academy) I found myself missing that aspect about the character. It really had the character come off as distinct... you really didn't pay attention to anyone else in the room in Slotts book. It's a shame that's not really there anymore.

  2. #122
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    They already tried retconning it once to get Hank off the hook... the Crossing revealed that Kang was mentally tampering with Hanks mind during that time. But Avengers Forever retconned it back to being Hanks fault.

    I suppose someone can try to retcon it again if they really want to... but layering retcon after retcon after retcon IMO isn't helping matters. They already tried retconning it away once and it didn't stick. And this point I think they should just let it be.
    You keep remembering that wrong. Actually, when he found out about Kang manipulating him, Hank got hopeful that that was the case, but Kang shot him down, saying that, while he had actually considered using Hank s his pawn, Hank's problems were his own fault. This exchange happened in Avengers 395, i think it was, during the last battle between the Avengers and Kang (or the desguised Imortus, as it was later retconned).

    Peace

  3. #123
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    You keep remembering that wrong. Actually, when he found out about Kang manipulating him, Hank got hopeful that that was the case, but Kang shot him down, saying that, while he had actually considered using Hank s his pawn, Hank's problems were his own fault. This exchange happened in Avengers 395, i think it was, during the last battle between the Avengers and Kang (or the desguised Imortus, as it was later retconned).

    Peace
    Maybe I do remember it wrong, but I recall Kang saying that Hank broke rather than being bent when he tried using Pym and that was the cause of the breakdowns. And it wasn't until Avengers Forever which retconned that away.

    Pym still believed that Kang was responsible for his breakdowns in Avengers Forever. So if Kang had already shot down that theory prior to that, I suspect Busiek made the same mistake I made.

  4. #124
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Maybe I do remember it wrong, but I recall Kang saying that Hank broke rather than being bent when he tried using Pym and that was the cause of the breakdowns. And it wasn't until Avengers Forever which retconned that away.

    Pym still believed that Kang was responsible for his breakdowns in Avengers Forever. So if Kang had already shot down that theory prior to that, I suspect Busiek made the same mistake I made.
    Okay, you made me go check it. You are right. I'm wrong. I guess I was the one that got the scenes mixed up in my mind. Sorry.

    Peace

  5. #125
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The ironic thing about Slotts Pym is that while the book was going on there was something I found a BIT annoying about Hank. Not to the point where I disliked the character... but there was something there. A sort of quirky vibe. Yet once that was gone (in Avengers Academy) I found myself missing that aspect about the character. It really had the character come off as distinct... you really didn't pay attention to anyone else in the room in Slotts book. It's a shame that's not really there anymore.
    perhaps it's the costume
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The ironic thing about Slotts Pym is that while the book was going on there was something I found a BIT annoying about Hank. Not to the point where I disliked the character... but there was something there. A sort of quirky vibe. Yet once that was gone (in Avengers Academy) I found myself missing that aspect about the character. It really had the character come off as distinct... you really didn't pay attention to anyone else in the room in Slotts book. It's a shame that's not really there anymore.
    Perhaps because Slott probably oversold the quirkiness in order to emphasize how "awesome" Pym is? The quirkiness and confidence is nice, but not to the extent that it overshadows the rest of the plot.

  7. #127
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMacQ View Post
    Perhaps because Slott probably oversold the quirkiness in order to emphasize how "awesome" Pym is? The quirkiness and confidence is nice, but not to the extent that it overshadows the rest of the plot.
    Yeah, but I think the interesting thing about the book was that it oversold not only everything good about Pym, but everything bad about him. You had Eternity making him Scientist Supreme in the same series where you had Reed and Tony diss the guy like he owed them money or something. So there was a weird sort of balance there.

    But yeah... in the end it did overshadow the plot. I've made this complaint before... that Mighty Avengers title was a good book, but not a good Avengers book. It was a Hank Pym book. And perhaps part of the problem is that clearly Avengers Academy isn't that. It's about the students first and foremost. So Hank and his issues have to sort of take a back seat.

  8. #128
    Marvel Zombie strathcona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Hey man, we should pitch this to Marvel!

    In my mind the real Hawkeye is still stuck somewhere and the guy that died in Disassembled was a Skrull.
    Naw, I am OK with it being the real Hawkeye... but his mind was intentionally warped when he was brought back to life so he wouldn't realize everyone else in a position of influence (Cap, Iron Man, Reed, etc.) were acting so out of character (they too had their reactions warped). Honestly, Hawkeye would be the first to call bull on some of the decisions they have made in recent years.

    The one who was replaced (and still is) was Wanda... though not a Skrull, and the replacement Wanda doesn't know she's a replacement.

  9. #129
    The Alpha and The Omega Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, but I think the interesting thing about the book was that it oversold not only everything good about Pym, but everything bad about him. You had Eternity making him Scientist Supreme in the same series where you had Reed and Tony diss the guy like he owed them money or something. So there was a weird sort of balance there.

    But yeah... in the end it did overshadow the plot. I've made this complaint before... that Mighty Avengers title was a good book, but not a good Avengers book. It was a Hank Pym book. And perhaps part of the problem is that clearly Avengers Academy isn't that. It's about the students first and foremost. So Hank and his issues have to sort of take a back seat.
    Its not so much that. Ya Pym takes a back seat, but when they do use him its usually in just such a ho hum way. Like in the latest issue with that speech, and not to mention the even stripped him of his cool toys and pretty much have him just growing.
    He's barley been in SA, but even in his few panels i much prefer him there. With his banter with Beast, and the Lighthouse and his Pymporter (LoL). In which he does live testing on Cap Britain (LoL).

  10. #130
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Its not so much that. Ya Pym takes a back seat, but when they do use him its usually in just such a ho hum way. Like in the latest issue with that speech, and not to mention the even stripped him of his cool toys and pretty much have him just growing.
    He's barley been in SA, but even in his few panels i much prefer him there. With his banter with Beast, and the Lighthouse and his Pymporter (LoL). In which he does live testing on Cap Britain (LoL).
    Yeah, stripping him of his gear and just making him a growing guy was sort of a step backwards too. Growing to be honest is one of the most boring generic powers out there. And Hank truthfully isn't even that strong (at least compared to say a Hulk or a Thor). So he's basically just a second tier power guy.

    I hated the Wasp name, but I like the costume and the gear that came with it. And he chose arguably one of his weaker identities to stick with. Yellow Jacket and Wasp could both grow, but additionally had flight and lasers. But Giant Man just kinda grows. That's kinda weak.

  11. #131
    Elder Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yes, but what I'm saying is that if Wanda was unaware of her children by that point in the story, one could guess (and at this point that's all it is) that Agatha erased those memories again and the Avengers were in on it.

    Again, there's a legit story hole there... I'm just trying to patch it in my head. Bendis story did seem to indicate that Wanda was unaware of her children, for reasons we're not aware of.
    By that point, it wouldn't be Agatha doing it, but Wanda Obliviating herself - since Agatha was dead. And whether Wanda did it directly, or through the figment 'resurrected' Agatha she'd created, I don't see any way to have the Avengers in on the deal without also knowing that Wanda was really messed up at this point.

  12. #132
    Elder Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    When did Doom disappear? 2003? You'd have to imagine Doom and Wanda came together before 2003, where Doom was left in Hell. That's a long time before Avengers Disassembled. You'd have to also imagine a lot of the Avengers stories had gone under the bridge by that time too, and Wanda was a total fruit loop, because of the Life Force. That's what I'm getting at.
    I'm not 100% positive, but I believe some of the stories where Wanda peripherally mentioned her tragedy with the twins (and therefore remembered them) were during that period when Doom was in Hell, so if the Life Force made her forget, it wasn't immediate. Also, that still wouldn't explain how Jan should have known their existence was a big secret again.

  13. #133
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    I don't know about any other such incident. However, if you are going to stop to analyze superheroics hijinks, many heroes will be facing prossecution for those and other charges even worse.
    That being said, I do recall Casey's original EMH mini-series trying to retcon a suggestion of abusive behaviour on Hank's part since the early days, but I don't think that went anywhere.

    Peace
    I remember Spider-Man loves to punch out the White Rabbit. How many times have heroes punched out female villains? And why is Hank Pym's worse than say White Rabbit case? It's still a man smacking a woman.

  14. #134
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    the stupid fucking hipsters (if you can call them that) don't really do continuity....so they'll prob have some snarky...if not smart....comment to make.

  15. #135
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The ironic thing about Slotts Pym is that while the book was going on there was something I found a BIT annoying about Hank. Not to the point where I disliked the character... but there was something there. A sort of quirky vibe. Yet once that was gone (in Avengers Academy) I found myself missing that aspect about the character. It really had the character come off as distinct... you really didn't pay attention to anyone else in the room in Slotts book. It's a shame that's not really there anymore.
    I remember when Slott started his Mighty Avengers run, that Pym was still depressed from Janets funeral, and he was more irritable and isolationist. Gradually, Pym was drawn back into the hero game as more and more people invited him to be the leader, and he finally embraced leadership to the extent of belligerence and with renewed confidence. I remember how he reacted against Reed Richards summation of Pym being unworthy to get Goliath's device, and they fought about it.

    Later, Pym relaxed a lot more, and he was more confident with himself. He started toying with silly, crazy, things, like capturing Loki and inviting him to be an Avenger. The craziest being setting up his Infinate Mansion, in what he thought was Janets body in Overspace. But going to Eternity to be given the job of Scientist Supreme seemed to stroke Pyms ego overly too much, and smacked of being a sub-conscious craving he wanted quenched.

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