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  1. #31
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Killraven Status Update
    With all the care McGregor is giving to continuity, let's take stock of all that's still up in the air in this series


    Let me know if I've missed anything (but don't give away future events!)


    Interpersonal relationships:

    Carmilla and Grok are close, but not romantically. Carmilla feels responsible for what happened to Grok and knew him best in his former life.
    Carmilla and M'Shulla are romantically close
    Carmilla pushes Killraven to be more intelligent in making his decisions. K.R. resents this
    Killraven and M'Shulla are "mud brothers," but tension is arising between them
    Old Skull is fiercely loyal to K.R.
    No one seems to like Hawk all that much.
    Killraven is attracted to Mint Julep.
    M'Shulla and Julep have a mutual admiration cloaked in feigned hostilities to one another.


    Unsolved mysteries:

    Why is Carmilla traveling with the Freemen?
    Who is/was Grok?
    Is Killraven's brother still alive?
    What is Killraven's "power," and why does he have it?
    Why did the High Overlord particularly want to make sure Saunders saw Killraven die?
    Who is Skar, and why does he hate humans?
    What happened to Hawk to make him want to take such personal revenge on The Martians?
    What was the story of Old Skull and K.R. meeting at Madison Square Garden. Why is Old Skull so fiercely loyal to him as a result?



    Villains with good reason to want revenge: (note that McGregor has de-emphasized the Keepers as the chief villains of the series)

    Warlord -- K.R. badly mangled him and cost him years of recuperation...twice
    High Overlord -- K.R. embarrassed him in front of a viewing audience
    Rattack -- K.R. killed his rats
    The Martians -- K.R. has become a symbol of hope to all freemen
    Skar -- K.R. embarrassed him in front of The Martains
    Abaraxas (if not dead) -- K.R. caused his slave trading post to be destroyed
    Last edited by shaxper; 03-20-2012 at 10:56 AM.

  2. #32
    Senior Member JKCarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    So let's talk about Hawk. He was introduced in the second issue and, for six issues, was depicted with a top knot, looking quite a bit like a samurai. He vanished last issue (though was mentioned once as having a particularly strong thirst for vengeance and Martian blood), and now reappears this issue attired as a Native American, complete with a differently shaped face and (forgive me, but it's true) redder skin tone.
    I'll bet this was just a communication breakdown -- Colan maybe didn't realize that this was a character who had appeared before, and just came up with his own concept of what a guy named "Hawk" should look like. And either the editor didn't catch it, or didn't think it was worth the time and trouble to have it re-drawn.
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  3. #33
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
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    I always assumed that somehow, during all the shuffling of talent in those early issues, Hawk and Arrow ended up unintentionally merged into a single character. Hawk ends up being such a good character, though, that I've always been willing to roll with it.

    Cei-U!
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  4. #34
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
    I'll bet this was just a communication breakdown -- Colan maybe didn't realize that this was a character who had appeared before, and just came up with his own concept of what a guy named "Hawk" should look like. And either the editor didn't catch it, or didn't think it was worth the time and trouble to have it re-drawn.
    Could be, although it seems that McGregor did a lot of intentional revising with the cast of characters. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason Hawk was "off camera" in #26 (an issue before Colan came on) is that he was debating what to do with Hawk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cei-U! View Post
    I always assumed that somehow, during all the shuffling of talent in those early issues, Hawk and Arrow ended up unintentionally merged into a single character. Hawk ends up being such a good character, though, that I've always been willing to roll with it.

    Cei-U!
    I summon the positive glitch!
    Interesting. I was thinking more that Arrow was absorbed into M'Shulla because M'Shulla's expertise is the crossbow and arrow. "Arrow" didn't really have any substance to him beyond his weapon of choice.

  5. #35
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Maybe Arrow died off-panel and M'Shulla picked up his weaponry.
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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Amazing Adventures #23

    "The Legend Assassins"
    writer: Don McGregor
    pencils: Herb Trimpe
    inks: Frank Chiarmonte
    letters: John Costanza
    colors: Petra Goldberg
    editor: Roy Thomas

    grade: D

    Nothing to write home about as Killraven gets captured (this seems to happen every issue) placed in a situation in which he has an opportunity to free himself (this seems to happen every issue), and frees himself (this seems to happen every issue). Sure, we get Killraven being eaten alive by rats (which, I admit, was creepy), and we meet a badly drawn Martian Overlord wearing robotic armor, but this was still a predictable story without much else going for it.

    Beyond the boring plot structure, the issue seems to contain a lot of moments that make very little sense. Let's have a go at them:

    1. The title. Who are the legend assassins? Is this a clever name for rats that I'm not aware of?
    And then there's that cover blurb...

  7. #37
    *choke* dan bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Btw, I still remember the guardian of the treasure from issue #26. After the third time I re-read that issue, I realized that his name was an anagram of Fruit Loops.
    If memory serves (haven't read the issue since it was new), quite a few proper nouns from that story were anagrams of cereal, as I believe a subsequent lettercol pointed out.
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

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  8. #38
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
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    Pstun-Rage = Grape Nuts
    Rangolar = Granola[r]
    Foropulist = Fruit Loops
    Racque = ???

    Cei-U!
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  9. #39
    Senior Member CromagnonMan's Avatar
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    so far judging from your reviews the series looks fairly uneven Shaxper..one issue gets an A, the next gets a D

    ive been meaning to ask, how do you distinguish between say a C- and a D+, or are they basically the same? or am i being a pedant

  10. #40
    *choke* dan bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cei-U! View Post
    Racque = ???
    Quacer, I suppose, which is almost Quaker.
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  11. #41
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CromagnonMan View Post
    so far judging from your reviews the series looks fairly uneven Shaxper..one issue gets an A, the next gets a D
    You said it. There are moments of true greatness, but so much of the series is "blah." I've re-read the first half of the next issue three times now because I'm just losing the energy to push through.

    ive been meaning to ask, how do you distinguish between say a C- and a D+, or are they basically the same? or am i being a pedant
    It's all subjective, of course, but, in my mind, a C- is a little more problematic than your run of the mill uninspired but generally not problematic "bleh" back issue, whereas a D+ has a lot wrong with it, but still possesses a few positive qualities that prevent it from earning a full D. A D is just an outright poor issue. A D- is such a bad story that it lacks any redeeming qualities in my opinion. An F would indicate either a truly painful reading experience o such a thorough trainwreck of a story that I truly and actively wish I'd never read it.
    Last edited by shaxper; 03-26-2012 at 09:10 PM.

  12. #42
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan bailey View Post
    Quacer, I suppose, which is almost Quaker.
    Brilliant!!!

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  13. #43
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Amazing Adventures #27

    "The Death Breeders"
    writer: Don McGregor
    pencils: Craig Russell
    inks: Jack Abel
    colors: Petra Goldberg
    letters: John Costanza
    editor: Roy Thomas

    grade: C+


    Getting through this issue was sheer work. I had to restart it three different times because I truly, truly didn't want to finish it. It's not that this issue was particularly bad, per se. It's that I had high hopes for this first P. Craig Russell issue (just "Craig Russell" here) but I'm still not really feeling the series. I suppose I should give the new team some time to get used to each other.

    There's a lot working in this issue, including some semi-interesting post apocalyptic settings (an ice ship sliding across a frozen Lake Erie, the breeding cells, the old brewery) and more interpersonal character developments (I'll get into this later), but the series still feels directionless to me -- continuing, issue after issue, without any real idea of what it's moving toward. There's no master plan or goal to be attained beyond annoying Martians, Killraven is still a very flat character, and there's no clear and immediate conflict building throughout this story beyond K.R. learning about the breeding cells and deciding he wants to destroy them.

    Russell's art does shine at points, especially in depicting Killraven's face, conveying both discomfort and compassion towards Carmilla, in the 2nd to last panel of page 7. It's pretty much the richest characterization he's received at this point (which, I suppose, isn't saying much).

    Here's what's worth noting in this issue:

    1st appearance: Volcana Ash
    1st appearance: Atalon
    ist appearance: Death Breeders
    1st appearance: Death-Birth (breeding complex)

    Hawk -- still haunted by his near death back in #20. Beginning to butt heads with Killraven.
    Killraven -- It's becoming more obvious that he's jealous of Carmilla for taking M'Shulla from him.
    Grok -- may have some sort of empathic connection with Carmilla. Nearly killed by giant lamprey.
    Martians -- communicate telepathically (this may have been stated before)
    Skar -- can communicate telepathically with Martians


    Additionally, the High Overlord shares Killraven's file with Skar on page 14. There's nothing particularly new here, but it might be worth repeating:

    2006 - Killraven, approximately six Earth years of age, captured by human recruiting force under the leadership of DR. RAKER. Professional exterminator, SAUNDERS, accompanying.

    2008 - Killraven shows rebellious tendencies. He is placed under KEEPER WHITMAN [later Warlord]'s observation.

    2010 - First meeting with Earth subject, M'SHULLA, in the gladitorial pen.

    Somehow, I expected the Martians to have more info on him than this. For example, when did he first go to Staten Island to form his band of Freemen?


    We also lean in this issue that The High Overlord intentionally dropped that information about Saunders in front of Killraven in #23 in order to create a trap for him.

    Finally, interpersonal conflict seems to be on the rise, with Hawk and Killraven getting tense with each other, Killraven and M'Shulla getting tense with each other, and Carmilla on the threshold of losing Grok. Were these characters better developed by this point, I'd probably care about all of this a lot more than I do.


    Minor details:

    - The Martians can clone humans, and yet they go through all the trouble of running breeding complexes. Why not just mass clone brain-less humans? This can't be an efficient method of producing food when each couple can only produce once every nine months.

    - The cover: Russell likes his Hentai, doesn't he?

    - The cover also includes the "Starring -- Killraven!" tag for the first time.

    - Finally, the cover promises: "This is it! The most widely-acclaimed Science-Fiction series ever!" I'm all about Marvel style fanfare, but come on. New Gods? Kamandi? "Most-acclaimed" according to who?


    So I'm definitely struggling with this series at this point. Still I'll push on, hoping Russell brings something truly special to the series (as promised).

  14. #44
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    Maybe a cloned human isn't as tasty or chic as an 'organic' human?

    And relax, the writing gets better and the artwork improves steadily. By the end of Killraven's run, Russell's artwork is fully developed and McGregor's quirkiness (almost) overcomes his wordiness.

    BTW, Marvel's sheer willingness to advertise this as a Science Fiction series was, for the times, near-miraculous. A straight SF approach had been considered the kiss of death to comic books since at least 1956. Neither New Gods or Kamandi were advertised as SF (although both clearly were).

  15. #45
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rarndt View Post
    Maybe a cloned human isn't as tasty or chic as an 'organic' human?
    Ah, those arrogant Martian "foodies."

    And relax, the writing gets better and the artwork improves steadily. By the end of Killraven's run, Russell's artwork is fully developed and McGregor's quirkiness (almost) overcomes his wordiness.
    This is reassuring. Thanks

    BTW, Marvel's sheer willingness to advertise this as a Science Fiction series was, for the times, near-miraculous. A straight SF approach had been considered the kiss of death to comic books since at least 1956. Neither New Gods or Kamandi were advertised as SF (although both clearly were).
    Magnus Robot Fighter? Doctor Solar? Mighty Samson? MARS Patrol? Space Family Robinson? Buck Rogers?

    ...okay, those were ALL Gold Key titles, and they were all either out of print or in serious trouble by 1974. What's your point? ;)


    Still, Marvel was in the midst of launching its Planet of the Apes mag in the midst of the "Go Ape!" media frenzy of '74, so post-apocalyptic Sci-Fi was becoming cool.

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