The Sales Thread

[Scott Harris]

I've always been interested in sales, particularly in reading those annual statements of ownership comics were required to print in the back of each title. So I thought I would start a thread about sales. One thing that's interesting to me is that the sales figures usually reported and quoted these days when you see stories about sales are direct market only, as reported by Diamond, which has an industry-crushing monopoly on distribution.

However, while most newsstand sales have dwindled to meaninglessness, some comics are still carried on the newsstand and there are, in fact, some titles that are ONLY distributed via the newsstand. The result of this is that those comics are not included on the monthly sales charts, because Diamond doesn't handle distribution.

As a result, sales figures for newsstand distribution seem to be available only through the old fashioned method of finding those increasingly elusive statements of ownership. (As a side note, there are still some sales figures I would love to be able to compare to mainstream comics, namely manga sales, but I haven't figured out how). Finding comics with statements of ownership is tricky if you don't nkow where to look, but I managed to find a site that had last year's figures for the one major company that still does widespread newsstand distribution: Archie. Specifically, Archie's digests, which are sold in grocery stores, drug stores and all the old places comics used to be available.

Now, as these are annual figures, the most recent sales numbers are from April of 2011 covering the previous year, or half of 2010 and the beginning of 2011. But just using these as a general guide, let's see how Archie's titles match up against the biggest sellers from Marvel and DC.

Here's a look at Diamond's top sellers from last month, Feb. 2012. Note that some titles are listed multiple times because they had more than one issue come out during the month:

1 Justice League 135,374
2 Batman 128,459
3 Action Comics 96,592
4 Detective Comics 94,415
5 Green Lantern 94,087
6 Batman The Dark Knight 77,140
7 Superman 69,633
8 Flash 68,061
9 Aquaman 63,450
10 Batman And Robin 63,093
11 Uncanny X-Men 59,834
12 Uncanny X-Men 59,200
13 Wolverine And X-Men 55,788
14 Wolverine And X-Men 55,341
15 Wonder Woman 54,190
16 New Avengers 54,105
17 Avengers X-Sanction 53,730
18 Teen Titans 53,123
19 Avengers 52,683
20 Amazing Spider-Man 52,564

Now, there are a couple interesting things to note here. DC has the entire top ten at this point, though this also marks the last issue of the opening 6 issue arc for each title, so there may be a drop off this month from people who had signed on for the first arc. Still, it's very impressive, especially Aquaman, who didn't even have his own title before the reboot and is now outselling X-Men. Meanwhile, the Avengers titles, which had been dominating sales for a number of years, are barely in the top 20 now, while ASM is similarly way down at 20th. The struggles of these titles have returned X-Men and Wolverine to the top of the Marvel sales charts by default, but really, the fact that the top selling Marvel book pulled in less than 60k in sales is really staggering and kind of scary.

But now let's plug in the Archie figures from 2010-2011 and see how they compare, with the caveat that, of course, these figures are a year old. Again, these are the newsstand figures for Archie digests:

1 Justice League 135,374
2 Batman 128,459
3 Action Comics 96,592
4 Detective Comics 94,415
5 Green Lantern 94,087
6 Batman The Dark Knight 77,140

7 ARCHIE 70,860

8 Superman 69,633
9 Flash 68,061

10 BETTY & VERONICA 67,719

11 Aquaman 63,450
12 Batman And Robin 63,093
13 Uncanny X-Men 59,834
14 Uncanny X-Men 59,200

15 WORLD OF ARCHIE 57,850
16 ARCHIE & FRIENDS 57, 188

17 Wolverine And X-Men 55,788

18 JUGHEAD 55,651

19 Wolverine And X-Men 55,341
20 Wonder Woman 54,190


To me, it's fascinating just how well Archie digests are selling. It also begs the question: Could comics make a comeback on the newsstand? I'm a firm believer that the abandonment of the newsstand in favor of direct market sales was a huge mistake that has just about ruined the industry by both cutting off the flow of new readers and creating cycle where comics pander to their increasingly insular fan base. But seeing the sales of Archie suggests that there are still plenty of people buying comics on the newsstand, at least if they are comics that are accessible to all ages. Shouldn't Marvel and DC be trying to emulate this? Can they?
Could Archie's sales be a clue to how to save comics?

[dupont2005]

I agree with you about the abandonment of the newsstands. I also think if comics left the direct market we would see a HUGE demographic change, which is probably why the big two don't want that. If you look at the top 20 in Diamond, it's 100% super hero titles from the big two. If you look at the top selling graphic novels on Amazon, not a single super hero comic made the top 35. I imagine if you checked book store sales the trend would be comparable. There is totally a market for comics in the toy section of toy stores, of the magazine section of big retail stores, of the checkout isle in grocery stores, even in book stores along with the big graphic novels and manga. Handling distribution and overstock refunds and so on would be the only thing to figure, and for some publishers to land some deals with retailers. The market for these comics is not the same market as the LCS though. They won't be variant hunters looking for mint condition copies. They probably won't have hundred title reading lists either. I don't know if the floppy format is ideal since the comics are going to be handled, by children. I'd say thin squarebound comics, 60 pages or so, maybe manga sized or slightly larger, with sturdy covers are ideal. The subject matter would have to be kid friendly and self contained.

[CromagnonMan]

the scary thing is that, in the main, Marvel's comics are better than DC's, at least what im reading.

Im not sure how DC are managing those figures, really.

as far as going back to the newstand, theyd have to try it really. it would take some getting used to, and the comic shops would be hurt by it.

[dupont2005]

Recent reboot. Low numbers on covers equal high numbers in sales. Issue 30 of Justice League will look a little different on the charts.

[Roquefort Raider]

To me, it's fascinating just how well Archie digests are selling. It also begs the question: Could comics make a comeback on the newsstand? I'm a firm believer that the abandonment of the newsstand in favor of direct market sales was a huge mistake that has just about ruined the industry by both cutting off the flow of new readers and creating cycle where comics pander to their increasingly insular fan base. But seeing the sales of Archie suggests that there are still plenty of people buying comics on the newsstand, at least if they are comics that are accessible to all ages.

I agree, but I don't even know if there's a real will to save comics. Warner and Disney are not interested in producing comics, they're interested in "exploiting their intellectual property". Nowadays comics are very little more than a way to promote brand awareness, maintain trademarks and provide raw material for movies, toys and other derived products that will bring in far more money than comics could, even if they started selling more.

Archie is where it's at, in my book (even if I'm no longer much of an Archie reader... THEY don't pander to aging fanboys! ) ) They produce comics that people can actually buy without visiting specialized stores, their prices are reasonable, and they don't kill, resurrect or reboot their characters every five years. I'm glad to see that their sales are so healthy.

[dogwelder]

I have also been interested with comics sales....here is a list from 1969....


1)

Archie

Archie

515,356



2)

Superman

DC

511,984



3)

Superboy

DC

465,462



4)

Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane

DC

397,346



5)

Betty and Veronica

Archie

384,789



6)

Action Comics

DC

377,535



7)

Amazing Spider-Man

Marvel

372,352



8)

World's Finest Comics

DC

366,618



9)

Batman

DC

355,782



10)

Adventure Comics

DC

354,123

















11)

Archie and Me

Archie

345,869



12)

Fantastic Four

Marvel

340,363



13)

Life with Archie

Archie

326,488



14)

Reggie and Me

Archie

276,275



15)

Walt Disney's Comics & Stories

Gold Key

272,672



16)

Archie Giant Series

Archie

271,699



17)

Thor

Marvel

266,368



18)

Incredible Hulk

Marvel

262,472



19)

Flintstones

Gold Key

258,821



20)

Archie's Pals 'n' Gals

Archie

253,206

















21)

Daredevil

Marvel

245,422



22)

Captain America

Marvel

243,798



23)

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos

Marvel

242,897



24)

Brave & Bold

DC

242,501



25)

Avengers

Marvel

239,986



26)

Uncanny X-Men

Marvel

235,811



27)

Justice League of America

DC

233,000



28)

Treasure Chest

Catholic Guil

231,531



29)

Reggie's Wise Guy Jokes

Archie

222,732



30)

Flash

DC

221,470

















31)

Detective Comics

DC

221,267



32)

Little Dot

Harvey

213,070



33)

Little Lotta

Harvey

211,039



34)

Madhouse

Archie

209,897



35)

Turok, Son of Stone

Gold Key

209,813



36)

Rawhide Kid

Marvel

204,896



37)

Phantom

Charlton

199,045



38)

Beetle Bailey

Charlton

198,020



39)

G.I. Combat

DC

186,264



40)

Unusual Tales

Charlton

178,545

















41)

Adventures of Jerry Lewis

DC

174,125



42)

House of Mystery

DC

173,206



43)

Sugar & Spike

DC

171,227



44)

Wonder Woman

DC

171,197



45)

Green Lantern

DC

160,423



46)

Aquaman

DC

156,307



47)

Tales of the Unexpected

DC

155,110



48)

Star-Spangled Comics

DC

149,170



49)

Fightin' Army

Charlton

141,335



50)

Strange Adventures

DC

141,179

















51)

Challengers of the Unknown

DC

140,238



52)

Texas Rangers in Action

Charlton

136,378



53)

Showcase

DC

130,219




















Average for comics




252,202




















Magazines












Mad

EC

1,884,502

[Jezebel Bond]

It is indeed sickening to see Amazing Spider-Man lagging far behind at #20 with sales which barely exceed 50,000 copies.

[The Confessor]

It is indeed sickening to see Amazing Spider-Man lagging far behind at #20 with sales which barely exceed 50,000 copies.

Agreed. Especially when, under the pen of Dan Slott, it's one of the best comics Marvel are currently putting out. Mind you, I've heard really great things about current Daredevil too, and that didn't even make the top 20.

Rest assured though, a lot of those DC titles will start to fall away from the top 10 as the buzz generated by the New 52 dies away and the issue numbers on the front cover begin to rise.

[dan bailey]

Agreed. Especially when, under the pen of Dan Slott, it's one of the best comics Marvel are currently putting out. Mind you, I've heard really great things about current Daredevil too, and that didn't even make the top 20.

Just out of curiosity, how do sales compare to before the pathetic deal-with-Mephisto nonsense? I haven't bought Spider-Man or any variation thereof (other than the short-lived Spider-Man Family, which didn't really count) in decades, so either way I was by no means part of the target audience, but I recall quite a bit of hand-waving by genuine devotees at the time.

Rest assured though, a lot of those DC titles will start to fall away from the top 10 as the buzz generated by the New 52 dies away and the issue numbers on the front cover begin to rise.

Yep. I'd have thought it would've happened by now, to be honest. Even so, when those numbers start dwindling how many of the buyers represented will start spending their money on what I suppose must be regarded as (at least from a sales standpoint) tired old Marvel titles instead? Will a falling tide lift all other boats?

[dupont2005]

I don't think so. I think pull lists will just shrink a little. I think a ton of people added the entire lineup to their pull lists and are dropping single titles as they prioritize, having never intended to actually stick with all of them long term. And I think they gained a handful of readers that considered the renumbering a jumping on point, and as time goes on a percentage of them will drop titles too. Overall I think they will be in the same sales range as usual a year from now

[The Confessor]

Just out of curiosity, how do sales compare to before the pathetic deal-with-Mephisto nonsense? I haven't bought Spider-Man or any variation thereof (other than the short-lived Spider-Man Family, which didn't really count) in decades, so either way I was by no means part of the target audience, but I recall quite a bit of hand-waving by genuine devotees at the time.

Well, first of all, let me just say that I am by no means an expert on this subject, but as I understand it, sales of ASM have never recovered and have been in decline since J. Michael Straczynski's run ended. However, the waters have been muddied somewhat by the fact that since the Mephisto deal, Amazing Spider-Man was published three times a month to begin with, and more recently, twice a month. So, I think I'm right in saying that in the aftermath of Brand New Day, ASM was selling more copies per month than prior to the reboot, but actually selling less copies per issue.

Strazynski himself posted somewhere online recently, in a manner that smacked slightly of gloating, that sales of ASM had steadily fallen since he left the book. Unsurprisingly, this elicited an angry response from current editor of ASM, Stephen Wacker

However, it's worth noting that although ASM is at #20 on the sales chart reproduced in the first post of this thread, it's on sale twice as often per month as the nineteen other comics above it. So actually, it's selling way less per issue than it's nearest competitor in that chart, Avengers. Sad indeed for the comic that should be, by rights, Marvel's flagship title...but then I guess that's what happens when you f**k off the fan base with devil-deal nonsense, wholesale unexplained character regression and a "magically" vanishing marriage.



EDIT: There's actually a number of sales related threads over in the Spider-Man forum for anyone who's interested in this subject, but I tend to stay away from those. Things can get kind of heated over there and it can be a scary place.

[Scott Harris]

One of the things that has bothered me in recent years is how badly DC and Marvel have done at getting fans of their movies to actually check out the comics. It's crazy to me that something like The Avengers would make over $500 million yet still only sell 65k copies a month. This is an area that they absolutely should and must do a better job at.

And now it looks like someone has finally figured out at least some of the formula for getting fans of other media to buy the comics. According to reports, The Walking Dead #100 has just become the highest selling comic book of the 21st century by selling over 383k copies in its first day of release (!).

\Now, some of that is an artificial bump caused by the fact that the anniversary issue had multiple covers, so many fans no doubt bought all of them. Still, the fact that an indie (Image) book could turn it's TV show popularity into these kind of huge sales figures for the comic book is a pretty big deal. And hopefully it's something the big two is paying attention to, because there's no reason DC and Marvel shouldn't be able to get fans of Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises to buy the comics.

[Ed Love]

One of the things that has bothered me in recent years is how badly DC and Marvel have done at getting fans of their movies to actually check out the comics. It's crazy to me that something like The Avengers would make over $500 million yet still only sell 65k copies a month. This is an area that they absolutely should and must do a better job at.

And now it looks like someone has finally figured out at least some of the formula for getting fans of other media to buy the comics. According to reports, The Walking Dead #100 has just become the highest selling comic book of the 21st century by selling over 383k copies in its first day of release (!).

\Now, some of that is an artificial bump caused by the fact that the anniversary issue had multiple covers, so many fans no doubt bought all of them. Still, the fact that an indie (Image) book could turn it's TV show popularity into these kind of huge sales figures for the comic book is a pretty big deal. And hopefully it's something the big two is paying attention to, because there's no reason DC and Marvel shouldn't be able to get fans of Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises to buy the comics.

As far as I know, THE WALKING DEAD number is at the moment, that's how many copies are sold to the stores, not how many copies bought by the readers nor how many of the sells will be to different buyers. Now, hopefully the stores have good reason to bump up their number of orders so significantly. It's well and good for Image, but before you can really claim it as a victory indicating translating consumers of another medium to the comics, we'd need to see a sustained interest.

Frankly, I think with TWD, we were already seeing it doing what Marvel & DC would want and should look at... appealing to those that don't read comics. A good portion of its sales (and why it does so well as a trade vs the monthly) is because it has dedicated readers that don't otherwise buy comics, even other Kirkman books. Nor are they particularly interested to. Even before the tv show I knew a guy that was the only comic he read and it was the trades. Like Jeff Smith's BONE it has a huge crossover audience with more general consumers, not just comicbook fans.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

EDIT: There's actually a number of sales related threads over in the Spider-Man forum for anyone who's interested in this subject, but I tend to stay away from those. Things can get kind of heated over there and it can be a scary place.

It would be best to stay way from the Marvel and DC subforms (Execpt for Vertigo); it's where reason, intelligence, and courtesy go to die especially the X-Men forum.

It's sad not seeing Daredevil up there, the best Marvel book being produced and it's a classic in the making! No more deconsctruction for Mr. Matt Murdock.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

As far as I know, THE WALKING DEAD number is at the moment, that's how many copies are sold to the stores, not how many copies bought by the readers nor how many of the sells will be to different buyers. Now, hopefully the stores have good reason to bump up their number of orders so significantly. It's well and good for Image, but before you can really claim it as a victory indicating translating consumers of another medium to the comics, we'd need to see a sustained interest.

Frankly, I think with TWD, we were already seeing it doing what Marvel & DC would want and should look at... appealing to those that don't read comics. A good portion of its sales (and why it does so well as a trade vs the monthly) is because it has dedicated readers that don't otherwise buy comics, even other Kirkman books. Nor are they particularly interested to. Even before the tv show I knew a guy that was the only comic he read and it was the trades. Like Jeff Smith's BONE it has a huge crossover audience with more general consumers, not just comicbook fans.

The main reason TWD is doing great and appealing to the general audience (TV show aside) is because it has a beginning, a volume 1, a place where ANY reader can start and not be bogged by past history.