How far will Captain America take the fight in Avengers vs X-men...

[mikekerrIII]

The problem Rogers has to solve is obviously Phoenix coming to earth. It's a potential global threat.

Would he shut down all mutants? No... I don't see that happening. He'll likely just fight the ones in his way. Once this is all over, I doubt mutants will be an issue one way or another and he'll go back to dealing with bad guy.

And working for the Mutants worst bad guy ignoring his bosses crimes.

Who is the bad guy is very much dependent on POV.

[mikekerrIII]

Why is Rogers consulting with the mutants? He's already got news from a Nova Corp Agent that the Phoenix is coming towards Earth, and that it's destroying planets along the way. Why not organize to destroy it out in space and be done with it? Iron Man was able to stop it in Iron Age recently, so why can't Stark do that again? He did it all by himself, as well. Stark didn't come running to Rogers or the government.

He is not destroyig it out in space becasue he simply doesn't have the power to do so

[XPac]

In Utopian the Avengers have NO authority, they are the invaders.

If the US government decides that Mutants are not allowed to exist anymore the rational response would be to make sure the US government doesn't exist anymore. US laws don't allow them to make a decision like that , and International law definitely does not. So if they make that decision they should be treated like any other genocidal criminal.

I don't see anything rational about deciding to make sure the US government doesn't exist. When you've got an army of less than 200 you avoid wars you can't possibly win.

[mikekerrIII]

I don't see anything rational about deciding to make sure the US government doesn't exist. When you've got an army of less than 200 you avoid wars you can't possibly win.

When they have single mutants that could even the odds with a thought they could simply win.

"No more bigots" from Legion might well end the problem once and for all. And if a movement decide to commit genocide is there not a moral responsibility to stop them even by using deadly force? Was Cap unjustified when he was fighting in the 40s?

[vitruvian]

no matter who is wrong or right in this, i don't think Cyclops is thinking clearly. it's not uncommon nowadays to see the people closest to him with that 'wtf' expression on their faces. i can't blame them for protecting Hope. she's one of them. but Cyclops is just one click away from crossing the line.

What line? There's no evidence that the Phoenix getting Hope as a host makes anything worse -it's currently causing all this destruction without a host. Nor that it's even possible to prevent it from happening. Therefore, there's not even any point in harming or imprisoning Hope, and there's no line to be crossed in defending her from such.

[vitruvian]

I don't see anything rational about deciding to make sure the US government doesn't exist. When you've got an army of less than 200 you avoid wars you can't possibly win.

You might not start them, but if the other party attacks, you certainly defend yourself. And refusing to hand over a citizen and family member is not starting a war; trying to take her by force is.

[XPac]

When they have single mutants that could even the odds with a thought they could simply win.

"No more bigots" from Legion might well end the problem once and for all. And if a movement decide to commit genocide is there not a moral responsibility to stop them even by using deadly force? Was Cap unjustified when he was fighting in the 40s?

Legion killing every bigoted person in the US doesn't solve the problem... it just means the mutants will have to go to war with everyone that's NOT a bigot for what they did.

And nevermind the rest of the world, if an X-Men killed millions of people he'd have to deal with other X-Men for that. A large portion of the X-Men themselves would go against Cyclops for plotting to murder millions of people. X-Men were formed to protect the world from exactly this.

Murdering a lot of people will lead to nothing but the X-Men creating a lot of new enemies and losing a lot of allies.

[XPac]

You might not start them, but if the other party attacks, you certainly defend yourself. And refusing to hand over a citizen and family member is not starting a war; trying to take her by force is.

I think deciding to make sure the US government doesn't exist goes well beyond defending themselves.

[Monty_Cristo]

What line? There's no evidence that the Phoenix getting Hope as a host makes anything worse -it's currently causing all this destruction without a host. Nor that it's even possible to prevent it from happening. Therefore, there's not even any point in harming or imprisoning Hope, and there's no line to be crossed in defending her from such.

http://www.comicvine.com/onslaught-unleashed/39-56392/

^reason why Rogers might think differently

[mikekerrIII]

I think deciding to make sure the US government doesn't exist goes well beyond defending themselves.

When as Jackolover states the US government decides you don't have a right to exist, that would logically be step one in self defense. It is far more limited that what the government is trying.

If someone is trying to murder you and everyone of your race you do not shoot to wound

[XPac]

When as Jackolover states the US government decides you don't have a right to exist, that would logically be step one in self defense. It is far more limited that what the government is trying.

If someone is trying to murder you and everyone of your race you do not shoot to wound

The US government consists of billions of people... the vast majority of which have probably not been within a thousand miles of any of the mutants living in Utopia, let alone try to murder them.

It's fine to shoot the guy that tried to murder you, but that doens't make it okay to turn around and shoot the guys entire family.

[Monty_Cristo]

The US government consists of billions of people... the vast majority of which have probably not been within a thousand miles of any of the mutants living in Utopia, let alone try to murder them.

It's fine to shoot the guy that tried to murder you, but that doens't make it okay to turn around and shoot the guys entire family.

but that was the justification for the sentinel program.

[Starfish]

Would be nice to know what each sides's specific objectives will be before jumping to conclusions what means they might employ to reach their goal. So far, all we know is that Scott somehow plans to use the Phoenix Force for his own benefit, and that the Avengers most likely will disagree with his assessment. That's pretty much it; we haven't seen what their idea for dealing with this situation will be.

It might also be interesting to find out what Hope thinks of all this. In light of the recent developments, she'll probably not be too thrilled about the PF coming for her, and she could hardly be blamed for that sentiment. Which most likely will also be the reason for her to run off with Iron Fist to find out how to stop it.

[mikekerrIII]

Legion killing every bigoted person in the US doesn't solve the problem... it just means the mutants will have to go to war with everyone that's NOT a bigot for what they did.

And nevermind the rest of the world, if an X-Men killed millions of people he'd have to deal with other X-Men for that. A large portion of the X-Men themselves would go against Cyclops for plotting to murder millions of people. X-Men were formed to protect the world from exactly this.

Murdering a lot of people will lead to nothing but the X-Men creating a lot of new enemies and losing a lot of allies.

Are those enemies any worse than letting the government murder every mutant? WTF do they have to lose when facing genocide?

And that government action would likely cause them to get some allies like the FF, I doubt that they would be in favor of their children being murdered

[mikekerrIII]

The US government consists of billions of people... the vast majority of which have probably not been within a thousand miles of any of the mutants living in Utopia, let alone try to murder them.

It's fine to shoot the guy that tried to murder you, but that doens't make it okay to turn around and shoot the guys entire family.

The US government consist of Billions. how did all those foreigners get into the nation much less the government? If you are part of a genocidal group and you get killed that is a net gain for humanity.

Historically the only thing that stops a genocidal goverment from getting its way is to utterly destroy that government, It worked in Cambodia and Germany quite well. Can you name one that stopped before it was finished for any other reason?