Shooting death of Trayvon Martin

[Matt Algren]

What's the overlap between the CNN & MSNBC circles signify?

That represents the person at ThinkProgress that doesn't understand Venn diagrams.

[Cavemold]

A terrible event but I don't see how a case could be made against the murder. The FBI is going take it on, I'm not quite sure what they can prove.

[dupont2005]

A terrible event but I don't see how a case could be made against the murder. The FBI is going take it on, I'm not quite sure what they can prove.

In most cases when you stalk and shoot an unarmed kid, a murder conviction is a given

[Cavemold]

In most cases when you stalk and shoot an unarmed kid, a murder conviction is a given

Unless your in FL , he claimed self -defense. . Unless they can prove he had intent to kill the young boy that night. They don't have a case.

[dupont2005]

Unless your in FL , he claimed self -defense. . Unless they can prove he had intent to kill the young boy that night. They don't have a case.

Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger usually comes down to intent to kill

[Matt Algren]

Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger usually comes down to intent to kill

So does getting out of the car with a gun and chasing the kid with a bag of Skittles after the 911 operator tells you not to.

The 911 call tape where you can hear the first shot, then hear Trayvon scream for help, then hear the second shot that killed him will probably help with the case they supposedly don't have.

Or maybe not. The kid was black, after all.

[Matt Algren]

Just in case anyone was still pretending that Trayvon wasn't murdered because he was black, here's the 911 tape from his murderer. Listen at 1:52 when he mutters "fuckin' coons."

[Spike-X]

Unless your in FL , he claimed self -defense. . Unless they can prove he had intent to kill the young boy that night. They don't have a case.

Unless he can prove* that a 26-year-old man with a gun was actually acting in self-defense from the scary, scary unarmed black boy, they fucking well do have a case.

And you can't possibly tell me that if this had been a black man shooting a white kid, the prosecution would be going for anything less than a murder charge, and seeking the death penalty.

* Which he can't. Because he wasn't.

[mikekerrIII]

Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger usually comes down to intent to kill

But it often does not translate to committing a crime. The problem will be to prove intent to commit murder and that is a different thing legally

[moonknight11]

Just in case anyone was still pretending that Trayvon wasn't murdered because he was black, here's the 911 tape from his murderer. Listen at 1:52 when he mutters "fuckin' coons."

I kind of heard "fuckin' punks", but it could be either one really.

[Matt Algren]

Unless he can prove* that a 26-year-old man with a gun was actually acting in self-defense from the scary, scary unarmed black boy, they fucking well do have a case.

* Which he can't. Because he wasn't.

But Spike, he had Skittles and a hoodie.

[Iangould]

But it often does not translate to committing a crime. The problem will be to prove intent to commit murder and that is a different thing legally

The thing is, self defence is an affirmative defense, meaning the defense has to prove it. (That's my understanding anyway. I will defer to Slam if I'm wrong.)

I seriously doubt that even Florida's Stand Your Ground law was intended to cover getting out of your car and approaching someone who is not trespassing and not committing any criminal offense, especially after being advised by the police not to do so.

What was he defending? The grass Trayvon was standing on?

Now it may be that there are extenuating circumstances here that make an affirmative defense viable but I suspect it would probably be one based on a mental defect rather than on self defense.

I am most definitely not prejudging this case but there appears to be sufficient prima facie evidence to proceed to arrest and prosecution.

[Paradox]

Matt Algren hears things:

Just in case anyone was still pretending that Trayvon wasn't murdered because he was black, here's the 911 tape from his murderer. Listen at 1:52 when he mutters "fuckin' coons."

It's definitely "punks", although I don't think him saying "coons" would be any more damning than the rest of the call where he keeps saying "something's wrong with him, he's just looking around at the houses" (looking around is now "suspicious"?) and then defying 911 telling him they didn't need him following. There's no reason this conviction shouldn't be a slam dunk with this guy's history and behavior.

EDIT: And of course he ran from you. He was probably told to beware of the ridiculous nutbar that patrols the grounds with a loaded gun and a giant self-esteem problem.

[Umbra]

Just in case anyone was still pretending that Trayvon wasn't murdered because he was black, here's the 911 tape from his murderer. Listen at 1:52 when he mutters "fuckin' coons."

Wow....crazy...it was murder plain and Simple.

[worstblogever]

Unless your in FL , he claimed self -defense. . Unless they can prove he had intent to kill the young boy that night. They don't have a case.

So does getting out of the car with a gun and chasing the kid with a bag of Skittles after the 911 operator tells you not to.

The 911 call tape where you can hear the first shot, then hear Trayvon scream for help, then hear the second shot that killed him will probably help with the case they supposedly don't have.

Or maybe not. The kid was black, after all.

Zimmerman's whole description was, "Black, in a hoodie". Not height, weight. No. Immediately it was race, then clothing. Which apparently was the case in the over 50 previous calls he made on neighborhood watch.

A kid, that even unarmed didn't pose a threat. The neighborhood watch guy weighs 250 lbs. Traymon weighs 140 lbs. Half the shooter's size.

I heard the 911 tape from a caller today who was calling to report the screaming boy running for his life through her neighborhood. And you can hear Traymon in the background. There's no self defense to be played here. This may have well been the Most Dangerous Game played out. Also, ask yourself how Zimmerman, a guy who has been arrested for assaulting a police officer, was granted a concealed weapons permit, pulled this stunt, and wasn't arrested.

There needs to at least be an arrest, and a trial, for Christ's sakes. The police department doesn't get to decide guilt or innocence, or "self-defense" for Zimmerman.