In Superman Returns why do the train set figurines scream when the train set burns?

**MagSeven** · 03-16-2012, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by ascended

Why is everyone always on about the bastard son? I mean, really. No one "waits until marriage" anymore. Not even Superman. And Clark and Lois are supposedly soul mates. Not like this was a one night stand with some bar trash.

The movie had a ton of flaws at best. I could write an essay on everything they screwed up.

But I feel like the irony and point of the whole story went over a lot of people's heads.

Clark left earth because he was searching for family. What he didnt know at the time is that he already had one.

And Clark didnt try to push back into Lois' life. Aside from some admittedly creepy stalker-ish behavior, and doing one interview, he kept his distance. Richard seemed like a nice guy, and Lois was clearly trying to get over Superman, despite her obvious feelings for Richard. Emotionally, it was a pretty deep story. For a comic book anyway. Sadly, the emotional wringer was the best part of the film, and while I get the point of it all, I still question whether it was the right sort of story to tell for the character.

I don't think it's about the kid being a bastard. I think it's the fact that Superman effectively cuckholed poor James Marsden. You could argue that Superman didn't know Lois was pregnant when he left, but he knew by the end of the movie. Now we're faced with the moral question of what Supes should do. Should he raise the kid and reveal the truth to James or should he keep silent? We don't know the answer to that because Supes just says "Peace out! Laterz! Good luck with your half alien boy!" Superman Returns is 2 hours of Superman screwing Marsden over in more ever increasing imaginative ways.

**Mat001** · 03-17-2012, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Project much?

Pssst: Lois Lane is an imaginary person. She does and acts as she's written.

There is NO right or wrong as long as its sanctioned by the PTB. (no matter what fanboys think or wish).

No, I wasn't projecting. I was pointing out what was in the film. Jimmy says that while they are engaged, they had yet to walk down the aisle. He thought that was odd and could only conclude that she was still in love with Superman. Then you add in the details such as her reaction to seeing him, the password and the lack of marriage and it starts to become clear.

Originally Posted by MagSeven

I don't think it's about the kid being a bastard. I think it's the fact that Superman effectively cuckholed poor James Marsden. You could argue that Superman didn't know Lois was pregnant when he left, but he knew by the end of the movie. Now we're faced with the moral question of what Supes should do. Should he raise the kid and reveal the truth to James or should he keep silent? We don't know the answer to that because Supes just says "Peace out! Laterz! Good luck with your half alien boy!" Superman Returns is 2 hours of Superman screwing Marsden over in more ever increasing imaginative ways.

That was going to be the point of the next film. The issue of what happens between Lois, Clark and Richard would be addressed and be part of the story featuring Brainiac. Clark wasn't trying to screw Richard over. Jimmy gave Clark a reason to consider that they weren't as happy a couple as they appeared. Clark went to see for himself and even Richard had questioned Lois's feelings for Superman. Clark gave her the interview because he knew it was time to talk to her about his disappearance and to offer up his counter to her editorial.

If anything, he was the rebound guy. It happens in real life.

**The Black Guardian** · 03-17-2012, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Project much?

Pssst: Lois Lane is an imaginary person. She does and acts as she's written.

There is NO right or wrong as long as its sanctioned by the PTB. (no matter what fanboys think or wish).

No one's projecting. No one's saying right or wrong. It's just a simple fact. She was still hung up on Supes.

**90'sCartoonMan** · 03-23-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by MagSeven

I don't think it's about the kid being a bastard. I think it's the fact that Superman effectively cuckholed poor James Marsden. You could argue that Superman didn't know Lois was pregnant when he left, but he knew by the end of the movie.

You could also argue that it was irresponsible of Superman to begin with to leave the planet not knowing for absolute certain he didn't impregnate Lois. I understand the idea of putting Superman in a tough situation in the movie and the irony of searching for family only to leave behind his next of kin, but it makes him look EXTREMELY unheroic.

**Mat001** · 03-23-2012, 12:27 PM

There was no reason to assume that Lois was pregnant, though. It's always a 50-50 crap shoot when you have unprotected sex. By the time it would've been detectable, he was on his way. Kinda like in real life, where people have one night stands and then leave without ever knowing. Sometimes for months or even years.

**Light Yagami** · 03-23-2012, 02:03 PM

lol i did ask this myself!! it is a good watch though

**Sighphi** · 03-23-2012, 02:47 PM

That whole dumbass movie was a 2 hour homage.
Play Super 78 then watch Returns and is basically the same movie with some extra minutes wasted on the kid.

**Alex** · 03-23-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by ascended

Why is everyone always on about the bastard son? I mean, really. No one "waits until marriage" anymore. Not even Superman. And Clark and Lois are supposedly soul mates. Not like this was a one night stand with some bar trash.

MY wife was on birth control before marriage, a lot of people do that.

**Personamanx** · 03-23-2012, 04:14 PM

Lex Luthor had a shrink ray and they were real people.

**Alex** · 03-23-2012, 05:49 PM

I can't stop laughing that this has it's own thread.
Everytime i see it i go "Tee hee!" to myself.

**90'sCartoonMan** · 03-23-2012, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mat001

There was no reason to assume that Lois was pregnant, though. It's always a 50-50 crap shoot when you have unprotected sex. By the time it would've been detectable, he was on his way. Kinda like in real life, where people have one night stands and then leave without ever knowing. Sometimes for months or even years.

Which is a horrible thing to do to a woman and the unborn child should she choose to have it. And it's not like Superman HAD to go because lives were in danger, it was his choice. Assuming he has half a brain, he KNEW there was a chance she would've gotten pregnant, and he left anyway. It's unfair to Lois, unfair to Jason, and even unfair to Richard.

Originally Posted by Personamanx

Lex Luthor had a shrink ray and they were real people.

Best answer so far.

**Mat001** · 03-24-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Alex

MY wife was on birth control before marriage, a lot of people do that.

Birth control doesn't always work. It is, after all, 99% effective. A friend of my mom's got pregnant while on the pill, back in the 70's. Also, Lois wasn't planning to have kids of her own according to the first time. So odds are she probably wasn't on the pill.

Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan

Which is a horrible thing to do to a woman and the unborn child should she choose to have it.

If a man is unaware of a pregnancy when he leaves, that is not his fault. However, if a man is aware and doesn't do his part, then it is a horrible thing to do. That is what a deadbeat father is. Case in point, Steven Tyler didn't know that he had a daughter for years until they finally met. That didn't make him a deadbeat father for not knowing. If he had known, though, that would be a different story. If Clark had known, he wouldn't have left. He didn't go talk to her before leaving because he knew that she would make him stay.

And it's not like Superman HAD to go because lives were in danger, it was his choice. Assuming he has half a brain, he KNEW there was a chance she would've gotten pregnant, and he left anyway.

He left because he was lead to believe that his people weren't dead, which made him consider that Jor-El was wrong. Jor-El had told him about the Council's disbelief of his conclusions, which is why it was only Clark who was sent to Earth. Clark had wanted to see for himself if his people were indeed alive and if he truly belonged on Krypton or on Earth. He wasn't thinking about that night that he spent with Lois. In fact, neither one of them had thought about it before her memories were erased. If you will note, in both versions of the second film, they were more concerned about their relationship going forward and not that that could happen. They were both guilty of not seeing the bigger picture of what they did.

It's unfair to Lois, unfair to Jason, and even unfair to Richard.

That's not Clark's fault that Lois is still in love with him. She made her choice to sleep with Clark and to get engaged to Richard. She made her choice to not marry him. Richard made his choice to get engaged with someone who he knew had strong feelings for another man. Jason, well, it's not like Clark wouldn't be in his life after learning about him. Course, if the rumored storyline that Singer came up with was any indication, it wouldn't matter for him in the long run.