Page 16 of 23 FirstFirst ... 6121314151617181920 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 333
  1. #226
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,965

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    And when Conway returned to the Clone Saga during his Spectacular run, he didn't question Peter's authenticity or the death of the clone. He questioned the science itself, retconning it as a virus that infected a host subject rather than actual cloning.
    God I had totally spaced that Conway came back on to the title for Spectacular Spider-Man.
    Founder and member of the Spidey 500 Club: Class of 2013.

    Come join the club!

  2. #227
    Like a boss E. Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    So, second half of the Lee/Romita omnibus. Some general thoughts:

    -Sorry, Stan, no one cares about Ka-Zar. But more importantly, this issue unfortunately marks the switchover from feisty Gwen to crying Gwen. Granted, in this particular context, it's not too bad, but knowing how much crying Gwen is coming, it's a bit unfortunate.

    -The return of the Spider Slayer also brings up a pet-peeve of mine: Jonah never commissioned Spencer Smythe to build the damn things! Both here and back in Amazing 25, it's Smythe who approaches Jonah. It's your own damn fault you're dead, Spencer!

    -Mary Jane's work as a go-go dancer is awesomely dated and silly, but it's still more interesting than what we know about Gwen at this point. Also, the Kingpin's line, "Nobody turns down a free photograph of himself! Our plan cannot fail!" needs to be on a t-shirt or something.

    -I like Medusa (I like any woman who kicks ass and speaks in third person) but the plot of her guest-appearance is just silly.

    -Solid appearances by the (Returning) Vulture and Mysterio. No complaints there, but a lot more Gwen-crying. And Pete realizes that he loves her, for some reason. I'm not dissing Gwen; just pointing out they've only had one (catastrophic) date...

    -I have no idea what's going on in Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine #1. I liked the black and white pencil work, but the plot is just...weird. I mean, Raleigh is about as charismatic as a doorstop, and so over-the-top evil that I can't believe he's kept up the charade of being a nice guy for so long. (And the less said about Man-Monster, the better.)

    -Alternately, Spec. Spidey Mag #2 is a pretty solid story, but it does show how the Goblin fell in effectiveness since his identity was revealed. He's become so predictable in his rage that Spidey can manipulate him in the heat of battle simply by knowing how he (the Goblin) will react. I do love that Spidey beating a villain with the aid of powerful psychotropic drugs is canon, though. Ahh, the '60's.

    -Peter's parents being spies is still a silly idea.

    On to Michelline/McFarlane!

  3. #228
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E. Wilson View Post
    -Sorry, Stan, no one cares about Ka-Zar. But more importantly, this issue unfortunately marks the switchover from feisty Gwen to crying Gwen. Granted, in this particular context, it's not too bad, but knowing how much crying Gwen is coming, it's a bit unfortunate.
    I don't know where this Omnibus cuts off but "crying Gwen" I've always found to be vastly overstated. It's not that she doesn't cry.....regularly. It's just that I don't think the fire left, it's just the target of the fire was changed, and since the previous target was our main character, well, the situation came up less often. She still tells people off, tried to fight off Spider-Man, and gives Aunt May a speech that should be read verbatim to her every time she utters the phrase "he's such a frail boy".

    -Mary Jane's work as a go-go dancer is awesomely dated and silly, but it's still more interesting than what we know about Gwen at this point. Also, the Kingpin's line, "Nobody turns down a free photograph of himself! Our plan cannot fail!" needs to be on a t-shirt or something.
    There actually are still places in New York City that have Go-Go Dancers, I believe. I saw a documentary a few years ago that mentioned it in passing.

    But yeah, Gwen's got nothing. Outside of one reference during the Ditko days to her being a science major, the only character development Gwen gets revolves entirely around Peter Parker and her feelings for him. Either she's breaking up with him because he won't tell her why he hit her father, or trying to find out why Peter disappears by talking to Flash, or running off to England because her father died and Peter wouldn't marry her right then and there. We know basically nothing about her interests or desires beyond "Petey-O". Mary Jane, by contrast, was given a clear goal and motivation of her own.

    -Alternately, Spec. Spidey Mag #2 is a pretty solid story, but it does show how the Goblin fell in effectiveness since his identity was revealed. He's become so predictable in his rage that Spidey can manipulate him in the heat of battle simply by knowing how he (the Goblin) will react. I do love that Spidey beating a villain with the aid of powerful psychotropic drugs is canon, though. Ahh, the '60's.
    There's a reason they killed the Green Goblin in 122. Besides the Poetic justice, the high stakes nature of a character who knows Peter's identity and the desire to maintain a relatively believable status quo severely limited what they were able to do with the character from that point forward.
    When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis

  4. #229
    Like a boss E. Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    There actually are still places in New York City that have Go-Go Dancers, I believe. I saw a documentary a few years ago that mentioned it in passing.
    Everything I know about Go-go dancing, I learned from "The Girl in Gold Boots", so I'm probably not the person to discuss them.

    We know basically nothing about her interests or desires beyond "Petey-O". Mary Jane, by contrast, was given a clear goal and motivation of her own.
    There's some irony there, and it's not a scenario limited to the Spidey mythos; because MJ wasn't the designated girlfriend, they had to give her other subplots, which resulted in her becoming a more interesting partner than the actual girlfriend. And Harry suffers a variant of this as well. He's entirely defined by his role as either Pete's "best friend" or Norman's son. At least he'd stick around long enough to be given additional characterization in the 70's and 80's.


    There's a reason they killed the Green Goblin in 122. Besides the Poetic justice, the high stakes nature of a character who knows Peter's identity and the desire to maintain a relatively believable status quo severely limited what they were able to do with the character from that point forward.
    Yeah, the Goblin isn't really Spidey's "greatest" enemy at this point, so much as his most problematic. Before, he was unique because of his mystery; now, he's unique because of the danger he represents. (I don't buy the "I can't kill him because he's Harry's dad" stuff, because that implies that Pete would be willing to kill him in the first place.)

    I also have to wonder if folks at the time, who didn't already know the beats of the Goblin's history, were let down by SSMM #2. They teased the Goblin's return for months, and it's resolved in a single issue that a lot of fans may not have been able to get via newsstand due to technically being a different publication.

  5. #230
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E. Wilson View Post
    Everything I know about Go-go dancing, I learned from "The Girl in Gold Boots", so I'm probably not the person to discuss them.
    And the only reason I even know what that is is because I watch The Cinema Snob. It's ok, we're all lost.

    There's some irony there, and it's not a scenario limited to the Spidey mythos; because MJ wasn't the designated girlfriend, they had to give her other subplots, which resulted in her becoming a more interesting partner than the actual girlfriend. And Harry suffers a variant of this as well. He's entirely defined by his role as either Pete's "best friend" or Norman's son. At least he'd stick around long enough to be given additional characterization in the 70's and 80's.
    Yeah, pretty much. Mary Jane's unimportance left her free to be whatever, and once she had established who she was plopping her into the Love role had a lot more to build on. All of Gwen's build up time was spent on building up the relationship, almost nothing on her.


    Yeah, the Goblin isn't really Spidey's "greatest" enemy at this point, so much as his most problematic. Before, he was unique because of his mystery; now, he's unique because of the danger he represents. (I don't buy the "I can't kill him because he's Harry's dad" stuff, because that implies that Pete would be willing to kill him in the first place.)

    I also have to wonder if folks at the time, who didn't already know the beats of the Goblin's history, were let down by SSMM #2. They teased the Goblin's return for months, and it's resolved in a single issue that a lot of fans may not have been able to get via newsstand due to technically being a different publication.
    That's an....interesting distinction. Would you say Doc Ock is the greatest then at this point? Through my initial run GG always seemed like it to me, from his first appearance. He always got away (at least he got away the first few times), embarassed Spider-Man when he had to flee (though that had nothing to do with him actually), manipulated Spider-Man into taking down a rival crime boss, and discovered his identity. That's a pretty impressive list, if you ask me.

    Though I can't actually remember SSMM #2, now that I think about it. I was confusing it for the Annual that came out after 121.
    When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis

  6. #231
    Like a boss E. Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    That's an....interesting distinction. Would you say Doc Ock is the greatest then at this point? Through my initial run GG always seemed like it to me, from his first appearance. He always got away (at least he got away the first few times), embarassed Spider-Man when he had to flee (though that had nothing to do with him actually), manipulated Spider-Man into taking down a rival crime boss, and discovered his identity. That's a pretty impressive list, if you ask me.
    I'm not disputing that Ditko/Romita Goblin was a top-tier threat, but from a storytelling standpoint, the thing that made him so dangerous wasn't necessarily his (admittedly clever) schemes; it was all in the mystery. The whole reason he was able to pull them off so effectively was because Spider-Man had no recourse against him, no way to find or hurt him. And once the mystery was solved, as we noted earlier, Stan didn't really know what to do with the Goblin anymore. So, he was certainly a dangerous and threatening enemy, but the very things that made him so also made it hard to keep using him. I don't think he was the arch-enemy of the Lee years.

    That honor would fall to either Doctor Octopus or the Kingpin, who have really parallel careers if you think about it. Both are directly responsible for the death of a supporting character (Bennett Brant/Frederick Foswell), both inadvertently threw Spidey's love life in turmoil, both put a mentor figure at great risk (Aunt May/Capt. Stacy), and both were considered big enough threats that Lee decided to hide their involvement in important storylines behind code names to build tension. (Master Planner/Brainwasher).

    And they really compliment each other well, each playing to a different side of Spidey's character. Doctor Octopus plays up the high-concept science fiction element, while the Kingpin masters the grittier crime drama storylines.

    Though I can't actually remember SSMM #2, now that I think about it. I was confusing it for the Annual that came out after 121.
    Quick summary: Norms finally remembers who he is, throws a party just to taunt Peter, the two duke it out, Gobby uses a "psychedelic gas bomb" to screw with Spidey's head, and Spidey figures that two can play at that game; he sets off a second gas bomb right in the Goblin's face, causing him to develop a psychotic fear of both Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, repressing his memories again.

    It was silly, yes, but it was still Spider-Man triumphing thanks to the power of mind-altering drugs. (Which actually does sound like something the Cinema Snob should be reviewing, come to think of it.)

  7. #232
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E. Wilson View Post
    I'm not disputing that Ditko/Romita Goblin was a top-tier threat, but from a storytelling standpoint, the thing that made him so dangerous wasn't necessarily his (admittedly clever) schemes; it was all in the mystery. The whole reason he was able to pull them off so effectively was because Spider-Man had no recourse against him, no way to find or hurt him. And once the mystery was solved, as we noted earlier, Stan didn't really know what to do with the Goblin anymore. So, he was certainly a dangerous and threatening enemy, but the very things that made him so also made it hard to keep using him. I don't think he was the arch-enemy of the Lee years.

    That honor would fall to either Doctor Octopus or the Kingpin, who have really parallel careers if you think about it. Both are directly responsible for the death of a supporting character (Bennett Brant/Frederick Foswell), both inadvertently threw Spidey's love life in turmoil, both put a mentor figure at great risk (Aunt May/Capt. Stacy), and both were considered big enough threats that Lee decided to hide their involvement in important storylines behind code names to build tension. (Master Planner/Brainwasher).

    And they really compliment each other well, each playing to a different side of Spidey's character. Doctor Octopus plays up the high-concept science fiction element, while the Kingpin masters the grittier crime drama storylines.
    Those are really good arguments, honestly.

    My problem with Doc Ock is that he's generally ineffectual. He's dangerous in theory, but never quite seems good enough. Like the Shredder. Sure he's badass and all dangerous, but you know he's never going to actually dine on turtle soup. Kingpin''s problem in the Lee years is that he tries to deal with Spdier-Man directly, something that he has no chance with under normal circumstances. While Lee does a good job writing those stories so that it's reasonable Kingpin is a threat (surprise or illness, a favorite of Mr. Lee's), because Spidey could take him out with one good punch I never would have put him very high.

    And while they did both kill someone, they killed someone very tertiary. Foswell was a former supervillain, and Bennett was Peter's girlfriend's brother who was introduced in that issue.

    On the other hand, it is true that after Green Goblin discovered Peter's identity, his effectiveness plummeted significantly. I like those stories for the sense of tension they bring, but it's true that most of that had to do with what happened in 39-41, not what actually happened in his later appearances.



    Quick summary: Norms finally remembers who he is, throws a party just to taunt Peter, the two duke it out, Gobby uses a "psychedelic gas bomb" to screw with Spidey's head, and Spidey figures that two can play at that game; he sets off a second gas bomb right in the Goblin's face, causing him to develop a psychotic fear of both Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, repressing his memories again.

    It was silly, yes, but it was still Spider-Man triumphing thanks to the power of mind-altering drugs. (Which actually does sound like something the Cinema Snob should be reviewing, come to think of it.)
    Huh.....that's....basically the same story....Now I'm just confused.......

    AS I recall I liked that solution. Though yes, that's the sort of thing the Snob would be reviewing if it was a movie.
    When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis

  8. #233

    Default

    Re-read the original Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man story last night. That book never fails to make me smile.
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  9. #234
    Like a boss E. Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Finished the Michelinie/McFarland omnibus. General thoughts?

    -I really don't get the Life Foundation. They've got a bunch of wealthy investors, and they're offering a legitimate service. Uh, why do they need to commit crimes? Constantly? I mean, I get Justin Hammer; his criminal activities are just one part of a larger business empire. But the Life Foundation? I got nothing. And they're not particularly interesting adversaries, so...yeah.

    -While I was never fond of the idea of "Webs", as I felt it put Peter into the spotlight far too much, the book tour is actually a brilliant storytelling device. You have no idea where Peter's going from issue to issue, and it allows for some creative set-ups and a break from New York. Having said that, the usefulness is slightly neutered when he keeps meeting his own rogues in other states, but still. Good times.

    -Johnathan Ceaser is surprisingly creepy...he's actually a bit too creepy, in my opinion. He's a wealthy businessman, but...would you want to do business with his guy? Sheesh. And of course MJ kicks his ass and escapes on her own. MJ is awesome.

    -The Inferno tie-ins are pretty solid for being part of a massive crossover. Mysterio's plot is sickening, ruthless, and very clever, the Goblin War is fun, and while the Lizard appearance was a bit formulaic, I loved his attempt to chew off his own arm. "I can always grow another one later." Ha!

    -The Christmas eviction issue is my favorite Spidey Christmas issue ever. It's got pathos, comedy, and just the right amount of heart-warming schmutz.

    -And now let's talk about Venom. The Venom Returns arc is not only one of the best (if not the best) Venom stories ever, it's also so popular that Michelinie would return to it three times. Think about it: Part one features a subplot of Venom escaping using some method of deception involving his costume. Part two is a fight between Venom and Spidey that's interrupted for some reason. Part three is Venom engineering a rematch in some remote area to prevent further complications. Add scenes of Venom threatening Aunt May or MJ as needed.

    And while this may cast a sour note on the coming rematches with Venom, it's a sign of strength for this initial arc, because it's durable enough to bear copying. And for my money, Venom won't look better than he does in this story until Bagley gets a hold of him.

    -The Scorpion storyline is good fun, and it's always nice to see villains get into spats with each other. (Did anyone else notice that Blacklash and Killer Shriek have the same outline?)

    -And here's where things get wonky. The Assassin Nation Plot is, unfortunately, a huge mess. It's overlong, got far too many characters in it, (Solo? Really?), and has a really odd and inconsistent tone. I like the idea of getting Spider-Man into an international incident, something that's way out of his element. But this just meandered, and the ultimate resolution is incredibly lame. The idea of contrasting Captain America's willingness to die for an ideal, to Spidey's own, more personal motivations, was actually really good...but it was introduced far too late in the plot to have the impact it should have. ULTIMATUM isn't interesting enough to support its own story arc (Insert Loeb joke here), and the other, more interesting characters introduced to liven them up, (Sabretooth, Red Skull) aren't given enough to do. Hell, the Skull's appearance is practically a footnote! (And don't get me started on Peter briefly considering the Skull's offer...THAT came right the fuck out of nowhere.)

    -Then you've got Acts of Vengeance, which is a solid concept on his own; Roger Stern employed a similar approach to Spidey in his own classic run. (Incidentally, Erik Larson is not allowed to draw the Kingpin ever again.) But the Cosmic Spidey stuff kind of undermines the threat, and...well, seems a bit off. Why is it kept a secret that Spidey got the Captain Universe powers? It comes off as a huge infodump in the last portion of the story, and ignores some really interesting possibilities with Spidey having to question his whole "power/responsibility" philosophy if applied to a universal scale. While there was some potential in Spidey wondering what had happened to him, it's never really explored that much; he's more worried about what he might do to others than himself.

    So, the first two thirds of this collection are very strong, the last third kind of falters. Everything gets bigger and more dramatic, but also sloppier. I still have mad respect for Michelinie's work, though; despite a few clunkers, when the man's on his game, it amazing. And McFarland's work is really strong as well, although I still dislike most of his civilian faces.

  10. #235
    New Member ComicsMilan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Marvel Knights Spider-Man #4: I feel that this is a dissapointing end to what was a great storyline. I really like the first three issues, and somehow this issue just doesn't seem satisfying enough.

  11. #236
    Spider-Prime's only fan. spider-prime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,605

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Re-read the original Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man story last night. That book never fails to make me smile.
    hehe same, I love that book. I also love reading Batman vs the Hulk. Nothing beats even Batman beating up the Hulk!

    But, recently, I got the Omnibus of the Untold tales of Spider-man. Even tho I have all of the books in issue form, I just love collecting the omnibus collections.

  12. #237
    Like a boss E. Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ComicsMilan View Post
    Marvel Knights Spider-Man #4: I feel that this is a dissapointing end to what was a great storyline. I really like the first three issues, and somehow this issue just doesn't seem satisfying enough.
    Keep reading. The "conclusion" of the first arc isn't a conclusion so much as a breather. Everything comes together in the last two issues of Millar's run.

  13. #238

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Re-read the original Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man story last night. That book never fails to make me smile.
    Lex Luthor in that story is such a sore loser, he's even a bigger loser in the story he blows up his planet Lexor and blames Superman for it
    Blogger

    I am obsessed with the idea of completely erasing Spider-Man from every Marvel continuity

  14. #239
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,965

    Default

    Continuing with my re-reading of Slott's run:

    ASM 682-687

    This was pretty much all of Ends of the Earth. As I've found with most of Slott's run, I enjoyed this more. At the same time, as I found with Spider Island, it still felt like it was missing something. I feel like Slott's big arcs were just lacking. The Avengers getting turned into Ock Zombies just felt so cheap.

    I liked the line drops for Dying Wish and Superior though. Slott really dropped the seeds early for his big event, especially if it really started back during 600.
    Founder and member of the Spidey 500 Club: Class of 2013.

    Come join the club!

  15. #240
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,965

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Re-read the original Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man story last night. That book never fails to make me smile.
    I really need to get my hands on that issue. I've heard it is a great read- I think you've mentioned it a few times even.
    Founder and member of the Spidey 500 Club: Class of 2013.

    Come join the club!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •