The DC Numbers/Estimates Mega Thread

[Yttrium]

On the other hand, I do hope that they'll use Wave 2 as another opportunity to publicize all of their surviving titles and hopefully not only bring more new readers in, but bring attention to some of the titles that are critically-acclaimed but low sellers. That way, we hopefully won't have to have a new wave every 6-8 months as they continue cancelling the low-selling titles.

I like to see them come out with new stuff every 6-8 months. Variety and new things are good.

Critically acclaimed doesn't necessarily mean that it will have broad appeal. Bringing attention to titles won't necessarily help a comic, if the nature of the comic only appeals to a niche group. People may gush over the art style and/or writing in certain low ranking titles, but they should be aware that not everybody shares their tastes.

[Cavemold]

If had guess what books are getting the axe next it would be , resurrection man, Franky, capt atom , and vodoo.

[Flashpoint]

I'm not surprised at all to see I, Vampire and Frankenstein drop out of the top 100. I like Legion Lost, but I'm not surprised to see that one drop out either. I'm a bit concerned about how low LSH is in the list, though.

The first round of replacements will be coming along in a couple months, which is good timing. I'm sure DC is working on the next round. It's good to keep refreshing the line by dumping the low selling stuff and bringing in new stuff.

Hear, hear. DC is far, far better at this now than Marvel and that is absolutely critical to their success both now and in the future. Look at how fast they moved to turn around Green Arrow by scuttling the last creative team and bringing onboard a big name like Longshot/Daredevil scribe Ann Nocenti. Her first issue came out only 48 hours ago, but initial comments have run much positive than negative by a significant margin.

RE: the next round
I need to find that "3rd Wave of New 52" thread someone started and jump in there. Seriously, everything DC is doing is so dynamic and fun these days compared to the endless event books Marvel keeps putting out. With their lock on the Top 10 plus 3 almost guaranteed new hits in May, DC is thinking long-term and really giving us strong creative teams and good books.

As for Legion Lost...yeah, I lost interest after 4 issues. Really, there's been no valid justification for creating a 2nd team of Legionnaires in the 21st Century. Dawnstar, Wildfire, Timber Wolf and the others have been turned into DC's version of Star Trek: Voyager. And like Voyager, sooner or later they're going to have to find a way home to mother.

I hope the next cancellations announced gives us DC Nation-inspired relaunches for the likes of Doom Patrol and Amethyst, both with kick-ass creative teams.

[Little MY]

So many of DCnu52 have already dropped out of the top 100 after six issues in?! that should be raising alarm bells with DC. They need to pay attention to the other titles in the bottom 50 rather than keep boasting about their top Justice league character titles.

I was also shocked that Birds of Prey managed to outsell Green Arrow, and Birds of Prey is no best seller in itself. Looks like DC will have to focus on these titles in the coming months because they’ll need all the support they cant get if they’re going to last another six issues.

[Flashpoint]

So many of DCnu52 have already dropped out of the top 100 after six issues in?! that should be raising alarm bells with DC. They need to pay attention to the other titles in the bottom 50 rather than keep boasting about their top Justice league character titles.

I was also shocked that Birds of Prey managed to outsell Green Arrow, and Birds of Prey is no best seller in itself. Looks like DC will have to focus on these titles in the coming months because they’ll need all the support they cant get if they’re going to last another six issues.

Green Arrow literally had the first issue of their new creative team released a mere 2 days ago to generally positive fan reaction. I'll be watching closely to see how much of a sales bump Nocenti's tenure brings. Couple that with a new GA TV series coming out in the next few months and you can bet DC will be pushing hard to promote GA in 2012.

[Ari Gold]

So many of DCnu52 have already dropped out of the top 100 after six issues in?! that should be raising alarm bells with DC. They need to pay attention to the other titles in the bottom 50 rather than keep boasting about their top Justice league character titles.

Depends on whether the units sold actually slipped, or if they just fell out of Top 100 because of the 15+ double-shipped Marvel books.

[Desaad]

On the contrary, I'll most likely be one of the very first ones to add Avengers to my pull list once the new writer and artist are announced. I love the Avengers and after suffering through my 8 year long boycott of the franchise thanks to Bendis's trainwreck stewardship of the franchise, I long to welcome it back with open arms.

But I'm not undercutting them by saying that most of their books are underwhelming at best and impenetrable at worst. Marvel desperately needs a fresh start and Bleeding Cool's rumor of a staggered relaunch to compete with the New 52 does sound promising.

Having said that, I stand by my earlier post. Bendis isn't the invincible sales juggernaut he once was. Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison have become DC's deadly 1-2 punch double threat that create Top 5 and Top 10 smashes right out of the bag. Meanwhile, DC grooms Scott Snyder and Jeff Lemire as their new golden boys to follow in their footsteps.

Bendis: Spider-Woman bombed, Moon Knight cancelled and the Avengers line is getting beaten by Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash and Batman & Robin every single month. I say that as someone who staunchly defends Bendis's run of Daredevil as one of the best runs of any comic book in the past twenty years. It's not unfair to point out that he has lost some of his mojo saleswise and he needs to get it back--which I think is part of the reason Marvel is probably giving him the X-Men. They don't want DC's golden boys to supplant their own at the top of the Diamond charts (which they clearly have).

Pairing Bendis with X-Men as B.C. has rumored will undoubtedly get huge buzz and good initial sales. However, if Bendis just continues to do endless decompression and endless talking heads drivel like he's been doing with Avengers the last few years? Then I wouldn't be surprised to see his newfound pattern of a quick sales burst followed by an immediately following sales decline continue with the X-books. If we get an action-packed run that keeps the talking heads to a reasonable minimum, he'll make a comeback.

Right now, though, the top of the sales charts are all Johns, Morrison and Snyder...with the Bendis books well behind them.

Bendis single handidly turned the Avengers from a mid seller into a franchise with multiple books that were in the top 10 for YEARS. If his trajectory is the same on the X Men, then we're looking at a 3-4 years of dominance of the market -- hardly anything to be sad about, if you're Marvel.

Sales have slumped a little, but we're still seeing the Avengers support multiple books, easily, which wouldn't have been possible before Bendis took over the franchise. He's totally rejuvenated them.

I, personally, hate the books. I've always hated the books. I think they're mediocre 99% of the time, with a couple of flashes of quality here and there. I think he's misplaced on the books. But the public disagrees. Sales have slumped lately because nothing NEW has been done, but what could you expect? He's been ont he books for 6 year,s he's written m ore issues of Avengers than anyone in history. That kind of waning interest is going to be natural, which is why they shake up creative teams on a semi regular basis.

No, he's not the sales giant that Geoff Johns is...but then again, no one is. Morrison's Seven Soldiers didn't sell too well, because they werne't big characters. His creator owned stuff didn't knock out the sales charts either.

And looking at Snyder and Lemire while not marking out Hickman, Brubaker, and Aaron seems purposely myopic.

There is a lot to love at both companies. Marvel has a MO that, right now, doesn't produce a lot of titles i"m conceptually interested in, but they've got a lot of good creators. Lets hope this shake up ultimately means more titles we can all love, as it did with DC.

[Badger1701]

I like to see them come out with new stuff every 6-8 months. Variety and new things are good.

Critically acclaimed doesn't necessarily mean that it will have broad appeal. Bringing attention to titles won't necessarily help a comic, if the nature of the comic only appeals to a niche group. People may gush over the art style and/or writing in certain low ranking titles, but they should be aware that not everybody shares their tastes.

Oh, I'm not discouraging them from coming out with new ideas and titles. But if they've saved a low-selling title from the axe, I'd like to see them give that title an extra push, try to show everyone what it is about that title that they felt was worth saving, maybe attract more new readers in and convince ones who abandoned it to give it a second chance. Some titles have the advantage of a hot character, a hot writer, or a hot artist to attract readers to the title. Others may have a solid creative team, good storytelling and characters, but haven't got some built-in draw and need some help to cultivate potential success. Imagine where NBC would have been in the 80's if they'd gone by the ratings on the 1st season of Cheers. That show was consistently at the bottom of the ratings early on, but they gave it their backing and time to grow and it became one of their highest-rated series. Am I saying DC should regularly let low-selling series run beyond their course? No, but they should also not be too quick to cancel a series which is showing promise and should, as warranted, give certain series a little extra push to see if they can achieve their potential in a market where buyers are less inclined to give unproven commodities a chance.

[AgPhoenix]

This kind of goes back to that discussion on the Before Watchmen announcements. You can criticize them on how they need to bring new ideas instead of retreating that, but as a business, these sales charts don't encourage them to do that at all. If Demon Knights gets canceled (which is only a matter of time) I definitely need to start looking more into indie comics to support.

Why wait? Head on down to the Indie Section (or even the Vertigo Boards) of the message boards and start asking questions. I'm sure that you'll find plenty of comics that'll suit your tastes.

[ShaggyB]

If had guess what books are getting the axe next it would be , resurrection man, Franky, capt atom , and vodoo.

CAPTAIN ATOM
VOODOO
I VAMPIRE
BLUE BEETLE
GRIFTER
RESURRECTION MAN

all were at the 18k or less mark last month and that seems to be the highest number of sales on the 6 cut at the time their cut was announced.

[Sabrewulf]

Looking at what didn't get into the Top 100 and taking various other factors into consideration I think we are looking at a new batch or cancellations and replacements very soon. Before #12 I imagine.

I imagine Legion Lost will get a reprieve to see how attaching it to the Culling helps sales. I for one will start picking it up this month.

I think Deathstroke may get a reprieve as well to see if Liefeld can increase sales or at least to keep him sweet until they find another title for him to work his 'magic' on.

Out of the books not in the Topp 100 so probably selling less than 20k I would say

The Next six to go.

Blue Beetle
Voodoo
I Vampire (Critically acclaimed like OMAC but the sales aren't there and he's found a home in JLDark)
Resurrection Man
Captain Atom
DC Universe Presents (next arc ends at #11)

Possibly get a brief reprieve:
Batwing (Owls crossover coming)
Legion Lost (New creative team, Culling tie in)
Grifter (New creative team)
Firestorm (New writer)
Hawkman (New Creative team)
Deathstroke (New creative team)
Frankenstein (New writer)


Although I expect we will get a few cool new titles. Maybe a 'The Dark' version of Doom Patrol. Something Wildstorm maybe WildCats. Another Superman book to tie into the movie release. New Shazam series. Another Wonder Woman book. Young Justice. There's a lot of potential.

[ShaggyB]

just a reminder:

If you cant converse in a respectful way with others, you should decide it best to not post. 5 or so post deleted.

[Desaad]

Something else to consider -- a writer's 'sales appeal' is not going to be universal.

Look, the reality is this -- Jason Aaron's Hulk is a disappointment. It's the worst thing he has ever written. It's lackluster.

Quality DOES matter. I know we all say that it doesn't, but it absolutely does. It's the only way to ensure you get sustained sales over long term. Something like Animal Man sells consistently well because it's consistently great. The fact that Lemire wasn't well supporting a Superboy series just ONE MONTH before Animal Man was released doesn't change that.

The fact that Bendis' Avengers isn't dominating the way it used to, and his Moon Knight isn't selling, doesn't change the fact that his X Men very well might. In this game, it's hard to tell what is going to be genuinely good and what isn't, when a creator is going to be 'on' and when he isn't.

That's always going to be the unpredictable factor. But I think shaking up creative teams is going to reignite a lot of excitement in the writers themselves, just as it did with the DC 52.

[Raye]

I just want to offer a little perspective here. I get that people are a bit disappointed that Marvel took back the lead in the market/unit shares, but you have to remember that Marvel puts out a lot more books than DC, both actual titles, and a fair number of their books ship twice a month (hence taking the units share) and many of them at a higher price point (hence taking the market share). as far as *profitability* goes, I think DC is still likely in the lead. This isn't a sign that DC is doing badly.

As for some of the titles that slipped out of the top 100... yeah, that's kind of a bummer, but I don't think this necessarily spells doom for them just yet. Some books that are selling poorly in single issues are just screaming 'will sell great in trades' including I, Vampire. Given DC's experience with Vertigo, I would hope they understand this.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

Why wait? Head on down to the Indie Section (or even the Vertigo Boards) of the message boards and start asking questions. I'm sure that you'll find plenty of comics that'll suit your tastes.

I'd suggest looking into the Valiant relaunch this summer.