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  1. #1696
    Senior Member new_onslaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
    Agreed. I expect Trinity War to not only sell extremely well, but also to be better reviewed than Ultron War. More importantly, word-of-mouth is we'll get 2 more marquee ongoing books out of it: Shazam and Cyborg, one of which will most assuredly be helmed by Geoff Johns. Then there's Man Of Steel by Scott Snyder & Jim Lee and also Multiversity by Grant Morrison.

    2013 is going to be a great year for DC. The question is, will it also be for Marvel? And will Ultron War be the next AVX--or another Fear Itself?
    From what I heard AVX wasn't that good either. But I didn't get any of these 2 events. On TW and UW I'll wait to hear if they're any good, although I'll probably get TW because so far I've got all 4 crisis and flashpoint and they were from enjoyable to great! I'll definitely get Multiversity!
    Sells-wise it's going to be a great year for DC. Don't forget the HC realise of BW books. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are waiting for those.
    Quality-wise no one can tell. We'll wait and see.

  2. #1697
    Senior Member CBikle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    It has Geoff Johns as its writer, the biggest name on the industry, it's going to sell better than anything.

    Plus, I'm sure it's going to have several minis like most DC events.
    Maybe. It really depends on whether this is a story he wants to tell or whether it's an editorially-mandated event he was handed to write.

    Historically, Johns is best when he has little or no interaction/interference from editorial and his efforts on the New Krypton storyline for the Superman titles and the Magog storyline in JSA are perfect examples of where he started off strong and then dropped the ball.

  3. #1698
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBikle View Post
    Maybe. It really depends on whether this is a story he wants to tell or whether it's an editorially-mandated event he was handed to write.

    Historically, Johns is best when he has little or no interaction/interference from editorial and his efforts on the New Krypton storyline for the Superman titles and the Magog storyline in JSA are perfect examples of where he started off strong and then dropped the ball.
    It's been reported elsewhere, but here again is the very brief history on Trinity War...

    Originally, the plan was for Johns & Lee to take over JLA from Robinson & Bagley. The war was at first tentatively slated to be between the original JLA and Robinson's team of next generation JLAers. Theoretically, you would have had Bruce, Diana and Clark going up against Dick, Donna and Kara. What changed all that was the New 52 relaunch which meant the Johns/Lee takeover of JLA got pushed back to later on and the revised continuity meant Johns had to revise the plot of Trinity War.

    So now it's the New 52 Justice League versus the MM-led JLA. Bottom line: Geoff already planned Trinity War so it was his idea, his story. He simply had to revise it in light of the post-Flashpoint continuity.

  4. #1699
    Senior Member CBikle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
    It's been reported elsewhere, but here again is the very brief history on Trinity War...

    Originally, the plan was for Johns & Lee to take over JLA from Robinson & Bagley. The war was at first tentatively slated to be between the original JLA and Robinson's team of next generation JLAers. Theoretically, you would have had Bruce, Diana and Clark going up against Dick, Donna and Kara. What changed all that was the New 52 relaunch which meant the Johns/Lee takeover of JLA got pushed back to later on and the revised continuity meant Johns had to revise the plot of Trinity War.
    Wow, that's actually very interesting to know - I know that sounds like sarcasm, but it isn't - I really am interested in looking more into this.

    So now it's the New 52 Justice League versus the MM-led JLA. Bottom line: Geoff already planned Trinity War so it was his idea, his story. He simply had to revise it in light of the post-Flashpoint continuity.
    Yeah, but with everything that has been changed, is it still the story he wanted to tell ? When I spoke of editorial interference, this is precisely the kind of thing I was talking about.

  5. #1700
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBikle View Post
    Wow, that's actually very interesting to know - I know that sounds like sarcasm, but it isn't - I really am interested in looking more into this.

    Yeah, but with everything that has been changed, is it still the story he wanted to tell ? When I spoke of editorial interference, this is precisely the kind of thing I was talking about.
    Umm, no, as I recall, you said if the story itself was editorially-mandated...which it wasn't.

    I would assume that Pandora and the Phantom Stranger were still involved, though I'm not sure about that (or about the Question). But the point is, there was indeed going to be a plot initiated by Geoff Johns that involved the older League battling the newer League. And from what little we've seen so far, that still appears to be exactly the case.

  6. #1701
    Senior Member CBikle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
    Umm, no, as I recall, you said if the story itself was editorially-mandated...which it wasn't.
    But this can't be the same story he was going to tell.

    Between the reboot, mostly completely different characters involved and whatever other moving parts - all of which are editorially decided and beyond the creative team's control, it sounds like this storyline has been run through the wringer and maybe it'll be better than the original concept, but DC editorial's history tends to say otherwise.

    Instead of Trinity War, they should just call it Franken-Story.

  7. #1702
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBikle View Post
    But this can't be the same story he was going to tell.

    Between the reboot, mostly completely different characters involved and whatever other moving parts - all of which are editorially decided and beyond the creative team's control, it sounds like this storyline has been run through the wringer and maybe it'll be better than the original concept, but DC editorial's history tends to say otherwise.

    Instead of Trinity War, they should just call it Franken-Story.
    Oh good grief. That's way too melodramatic as far as I'm concerned. If you work at Marvel or DC, then editors are going to change things on you at the last minute. It happens ALL the time to every writer. Rewrites are constantly happening and have been since the last century.

    No writer and I mean NONE ever gets through a story for any comic book without at least a few rewrites.

  8. #1703
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    Look for Cap, Hulk, Deadpool, FF, Iron Man, and Thor to drop heavily from issue 2 on.

  9. #1704
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    Uncanny Avengers dropped pretty big, right? It was #1 and now #9. Like I said in another thread, once DC pushes out Man Of Steel (Jim Lee), Multiversity, JLA, AND Trinity War, they will be right back at the top.

  10. #1705
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgi View Post
    Uncanny Avengers dropped pretty big, right? It was #1 and now #9. Like I said in another thread, once DC pushes out Man Of Steel (Jim Lee), Multiversity, JLA, AND Trinity War, they will be right back at the top.
    Honestly, it won't surprise me if that's exactly what happens. And not because I think DC is necessarily better; it's because Marvel has a real problem with retaining readers after their first issue sales bumps. The historic declines we've seen on Marvel titles after new 1st issue relaunches have been shockingly steep.

    I mean, contrast sales on Justice League with sales on Uncanny Avengers. JL stayed in the Top 4 books all year long--but UA has already fallen to #9 after only 1 month? What the hell is up with that?

    The problem for Marvel hasn't been getting a sales bump; it's been keeping enough readers after that to stay ahead of DC. And for most of the past year, they simply haven't been able to do that.

    We'll see if they can turn it around this time...
    Last edited by Flashpoint; 12-07-2012 at 05:40 PM.

  11. #1706

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
    I mean, contrast sales on Justice League with sales on Uncanny Avengers. JL stayed in the Top 4 books all year long--but UA has already fallen to #9 after only 1 month? What the hell is up with that?
    Methinks it's the delays. They're getting like what, two issues in four months? That's ridiculous.

  12. #1707
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    I forgot about the secret Goyer/Geoff Johns project. That will probably sell like hot cakes, depending on what it is.

  13. #1708
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    To be fair Uncanny Avengers had like what 30 covers that, pushed it's number up and if you take away. The Marvel Now 1's only Batman, which is a sales beast sold more as it beat out JL.
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  14. #1709
    King of My World CagedLeo730's Avatar
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    Each Marvel #1 had at least 7 variant covers. DC's top books have 3 at most during the relaunch. Let's see how the Marvel books sell with only 1 variant.

  15. #1710
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CagedLeo730 View Post
    Each Marvel #1 had at least 7 variant covers. DC's top books have 3 at most during the relaunch. Let's see how the Marvel books sell with only 1 variant.
    Totally agreed. It's a bit sad, though. Marvel goes to a lot of trouble to reboot books, but then the sales start declining almost immediately. What a waste of effort.

    Maybe this time they'll dodge that bullet, but I'll be surprised if they do.

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