The DC Numbers/Estimates Mega Thread

[AvatarofLoki]

What films did they advertise in? Comic book related films, or films enjoyed by the same demographic?

Out of curiosity when we were talking about this in another thread, I actually went back and looked to find what movie we saw the adverts in front of. It was The Smurfs movie that we took the little guy to and saw the first advert for the New 52 pre-trailers.

Afterwards, Cartoon Network ran a couple adverts over the month, and I want to say CBS ran at least two during primetime (though I cannot state that for certain, though I know at least one of the top/second-tier channels did as I never have more than a low plan).

That's just off of my memory from over a year ago, but I know the movie/CN is 100% correct. So they were swinging for and hit in this particular case with getting my child jazzed about it; and that's as new as you can get.

-AvatarofLoki

[glennsim]

Again, I agree. The quotes Paul pulled weren't from me condemning the initiative as a failure or any other such nonsense. You're pretty level headed in your assesment of what the new52 did and did not do or attempt to do, and taking random quotes from other people I've addressed who take the succesess and failures of these companies to the extreme don't really apply to many of your arguments.

Hell, I don't even remember where some of these quotes are coming from. They do sound like something I'd say, though.

I would agree that on one hand "revitalizing the industry" might be a strong term, but on the other hand with the new52 it's the first time I can recall where we have reports from retailers that people were not only coming in to buy the new52 books, but they were also buying books from other companies as well. As opposed to something like the "death of Captain America" where people pretty much came in and just bought that one book (or at least we did not have reports from retailers at the time that cross-selling was significant in those situations).

There is also, of course, different definitions of "revitalizing the industry". If sales go up for a couple of months, that can be seen as revitalizing, just for a brief period. I don't know that there's a universal definition for how long something has to have an effect to be considered "revitalizing."

[ShaggyB]

Out of curiosity when we were talking about this in another thread, I actually went back and looked to find what movie we saw the adverts in front of. It was The Smurfs movie that we took the little guy to and saw the first advert for the New 52 pre-trailers.

Afterwards, Cartoon Network ran a couple adverts over the month, and I want to say CBS ran at least two during primetime (though I cannot state that for certain, though I know at least one of the top/second-tier channels did as I never have more than a low plan).

That's just off of my memory from over a year ago, but I know the movie/CN is 100% correct. So they were swinging for and hit in this particular case with getting my child jazzed about it; and that's as new as you can get.

-AvatarofLoki

i recall seeing some during WWE wrestling programs... that demographic is kids to adults so..... take that for what its worth.

[beetle_booster]

There is also, of course, different definitions of "revitalizing the industry". If sales go up for a couple of months, that can be seen as revitalizing, just for a brief period. I don't know that there's a universal definition for how long something has to have an effect to be considered "revitalizing."

It was more of DC giving the retailers a shot in the arm. That period of huge sales gave retailers more capital and confidence to buy more comics and to try out more titles. And it wasn't just a 2 month thing. DC have been able to maintain their sales by a combination of the great performance of some of its titles featuring their A-list characters and the TPBs. Reports from various sites tracking sales have figures that show sales in the industry have been higher each month compared to the month of the previous year. Superhero movies may have had a part in it, but the sales have been up way before the Avengers or Batman movies came out this year.

[Shimarenda]

Two things stood out for me in the October sales. First, Earth 2 had a pretty significant drop. Second, while most titles went back to their pre-#0 trend, Batgirl kept most of its #0 issue sales for #13.

[new_onslaught]

Two things stood out for me in the October sales. First, Earth 2 had a pretty significant drop. Second, while most titles went back to their pre-#0 trend, Batgirl kept most of its #0 issue sales for #13.

Batgirl #13 is part of Death of the Family. I guess after that's over it will go to its previous sales.

[tylenoljones]

That's just off of my memory from over a year ago, but I know the movie/CN is 100% correct. So they were swinging for and hit in this particular case with getting my child jazzed about it; and that's as new as you can get.

-AvatarofLoki

i recall seeing some during WWE wrestling programs... that demographic is kids to adults so..... take that for what its worth.

Thanks for the examples. That's definitely skewing younger than I thought the advertising would. Just out of curiosity, do either of you know exactly what the content of the commercials was? I suppose I could look them up on youtube.

I would agree that on one hand "revitalizing the industry" might be a strong term, but on the other hand with the new52 it's the first time I can recall where we have reports from retailers that people were not only coming in to buy the new52 books, but they were also buying books from other companies as well.

It's just not terminology that I would personally use. Now we're at the point though where we'd all have to define exactly what re-energizing means to us, and blah blah blah.

If we can all find some kind of common ground, it's in the fact that advertising definitely yields results and I'd like to see companies doing more of it, trying to expand the audience. That was one of the things I was trying to get across a few pages back in my disappointment in Marvel Now, and how it seems to be capitalizing on the audience that's already there rather than trying to potentially reach a new one with a similar marketing push (and yes, that's just the way I see the matter, before anyone gets too upset. I realize in actuality both companies are probably trying to reach as many new customers as they can, all the time.)

[Paul Newell]

You're of the opinion that a sales bump that lasted a few months revitalized the entire comics industry, fine. But you posted a few links that seem to indicate sales increases during a 2 month period.

During September and October. When the Relaunch hit and was new and exciting and everybody's sales went up and no-one's sales were cannibalised.

Sales had a similar increase back in 2006-7, and the industry took a downturn after that. There's nothing to indicate that couldn't happen again; nor is there anything to indicate lapsed readers won't lapse again, that the industry as a whole is any better off than it was in previous decades, etc.

Of course. But so far they haven't. And, during the last six months, have in fact increased to levels not seen in about six years.[/QUOTE]

You also seem content with not giving other companies credit for their own products, despite the fact that Marvel has enjoyed higher sales than DC.

You mean the stuff other companies built on after the initial relaunch? But we're talking about the relaunch when those other companies didn't have those initiatives. other companies have helped sustain, but they didn't kick-start the process. And so far this year, Marvel's sales have only been about 650,000 ahead of DC. Plus, before Uncanny Avengers, DC were actually gaining on Marvel's figures the months previous. Compared to the past, that's practically level-pegging.

And I'm sure their popular films based on their properties had nothing to do with that, right?

Who knows? There's been evidence posted in the past that the movies don't give the comics a sales bump. And the Avengers titles received no appreciable bump after the movie came out.

So please provide evidence that DC (specifically their new52 campaign) re-energized the entire comics industry.

You mean like the ones I already posted by industry commentators and statisticians? If you're not going to believe the facts, I'm not sure what else I could post to satisfy you.

[Paul Newell]

Again, I agree. The quotes Paul pulled weren't from me condemning the initiative as a failure or any other such nonsense.

Never said they were. I was merely disputing the claim that "The New 52 wasn't really aimed at wider demographics."

[tylenoljones]

You mean like the ones I already posted by industry commentators and statisticians? If you're not going to believe the facts, I'm not sure what else I could post to satisfy you.

Sigh...

Nothing, most likely. I'm not of the opinion that the initiative re-energized the comics industry. I personally feel the success of superhero comics pale in comparison to the use and success of these characters in other media. It has nothing to do with whether i'm "not going to beleive the facts". That's an absurd assumption. Regardless, there is no data to indicate that Marvel and Image's current sales are due to the new52 any more than a number of other factors, and I don't beleive posting sales results from over a year ago proves it one way or the other. As I said:

It's just not terminology that I would personally use. Now we're at the point though where we'd all have to define exactly what re-energizing means to us, and blah blah blah.

If we can all find some kind of common ground, it's in the fact that advertising definitely yields results and I'd like to see companies doing more of it, trying to expand the audience.

[tylenoljones]

Never said they were. I was merely disputing the claim that "The New 52 wasn't really aimed at wider demographics."

I realize that. But without context, others were confused at the meaning of the quotes, hence my explanation.

[AvatarofLoki]

Honestly, what pulled me in was the New 52; but what got me on-board the other publisher's train were podcasts and postings. Heck, the main reason I started visiting this board was to do due diligence and find good things I may not hear about otherwise. So while Image and other publishers are putting out some excellent work (astoundingly good!), I personally would not have joined in if DC had not initiated me by fire; followed by looking into recommendations by the more well-versed community that had been around before the launch and were willing to take risks outside the safety bubble of the New 52.

I know it's just one lowly scenario, but N52 is the reason I buy and enjoy titles such as Saga, Manhattan Projects, Locke and Key, Sixth Gun, Morning Glories, etc, etc. So in my case, I can see where Paul is coming from in his statements; but I do not have any voodoo/wisdom/hard data to support either side.

-AvatarofLoki

[Paul Newell]

Sigh...

Nothing, most likely. I'm not of the opinion that the initiative re-energized the comics industry. I personally feel the success of superhero comics pale in comparison to the use and success of these characters in other media. It has nothing to do with whether i'm "not going to beleive the facts". That's an absurd assumption.

And as we all know from recent experience, feelings, gut feelings or vibes beat out facts and statistics any day.

Regardless, there is no data to indicate that Marvel and Image's current sales are due to the new52 any more than a number of other factors, and I don't beleive posting sales results from over a year ago proves it one way or the other. As I said:

Nobody said it did. However, people are saying that the DC Relaunch boosted sales of the comics industry as a whole, when it first launched, by bringing people back into comic shops. The relaunch didn't cannibalise sales from other comic companies, which was expected, and did in fact boost them for other companies. This happened for about 3 months to the end of 2011. We know this because sales estimates show this and its also backed up by eyewitness reports from retailers. The DC relaunch started this trend, it's not continuing it. I like the way "current" sneakily changes the goal posts.

[AvatarofLoki]

Thanks for the examples. That's definitely skewing younger than I thought the advertising would. Just out of curiosity, do either of you know exactly what the content of the commercials was? I suppose I could look them up on youtube.

The content was the redesigned characters of the Justice League in a motion-comic-esque pose off essentially. But it was a lot of pans, quick-cuts, and flashing to give life to the images. Voiceover strongly stressed that it was essentially the big chance to join in from the ground floor and start with the journey of the heroes as they started over in the modern day. Strong push for new readers on the commercials as it stressed the fresh start more than anything.

Of course after it did it's job I had to hunt down where to even buy comics nowadays and went through 2 shops of completely rude owners/employees before finding one that was civil; but I guess that's not on the head of the advertising.

-AvatarofLoki

[Paul Newell]

I realize that. But without context, others were confused at the meaning of the quotes, hence my explanation.

Or perhaps maybe:

I should've been more clear in my use of terms.