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  1. #1606
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    We're talking about the direct market though, which it did succeed in bringing back readers to.

    The reality is that kids aren't going to really read comics in this day and age when they can always just tune into a cartoon or movie instead.

  2. #1607
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    We're talking about the direct market though, which it did succeed in bringing back readers to.

    The reality is that kids aren't going to really read comics in this day and age when they can always just tune into a cartoon or movie instead.
    Then why is it that kids have no problem making book series wildly successful but for some reason have no interest in comics? That's a problem that needs to be addressed. Comics are free in most libraries. Kids go into libraries all the time, they find books to read, and skip right past the comics. Why is that?

    At any rate, I don't usually like participating in sales threads. I just took exception to the baseless "re-energizing the industry" claims.

    I mean, technically Marvel is still out-selling DC, yet I don't see anyone claiming that Marvel's steady sales for the last decade have buoyed the industry and kept it from sinking altogether. I don't get where people come up with this stuff.

  3. #1608
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    It's just our culture. Comics here basically = superheroes, of which kids don't need comics to read. If the medium could be seen more in the vein of books, there wouldn't be this problem. That's the way it is in Japan.

  4. #1609
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    It's just our culture. Comics here basically = superheroes, of which kids don't need comics to read. If the medium could be seen more in the vein of books, there wouldn't be this problem. That's the way it is in Japan.
    But at one time they were wildly popular among a younger audience over here. Is it really just as simple as videogames completely stealing away that audience and becoming a replacement for comics? There aren't that many popular superhero games.

    In terms of the younger audience, I think it's a combination of price, the crossovers and lack of done in one stories that turn off impulse buyers, and maybe most importantly the art, while in many cases good, can't compete with what we see in other forms of media.

    Comics are a visual medium, and they need to find better ways to compete in that regard.

  5. #1610
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    Yeah I think it is honestly. Like I said, kids today don't need to pick up a Batman comic when they can watch the latest Batman cartoon or play Arkham Asylum. It's not even a conscious decision, that's just how it is today.

  6. #1611
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    All i can say is When you got Call of Duty (out today) coming out every year and other games that appeal to kids. It is just hard on comics to compete with that, but it s good to see comic numbers up and that is what we should be happy about. Oh and one more thing Call of Duty will do 6 to 8 copies sold its first day easy.
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  7. #1612
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timeismoney View Post
    All i can say is When you got Call of Duty (out today) coming out every year and other games that appeal to kids. It is just hard on comics to compete with that, but it s good to see comic numbers up and that is what we should be happy about. Oh and one more thing Call of Duty will do 6 to 8 copies sold its first day easy.
    And Halo, of course. I think it sold 3 to 4 million, right?

    But if that's the reality of the situation, then that doesn't mean good things for the comic industry in the coming decades. And it kind of implies that the industry itself is resigned to that fact; content to draw as much money from the existing audience as possible. Which I guess is all they can do, barring any other alternative.

  8. #1613
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    On the other hand, I think DC took good advantage of the video game demographics with DCU Online, which I think attracted much bigger numbers than comic book buyers. And this game in particular isn't just an adaptation video game, it's basically the whole pre-FP DCU in a virtual world. So it helps make the setting feel less overwhelming and more familiar. Making the transition of those people to reading comics is the next key I guess.

  9. #1614
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    Then why is it that kids have no problem making book series wildly successful but for some reason have no interest in comics? That's a problem that needs to be addressed. Comics are free in most libraries. Kids go into libraries all the time, they find books to read, and skip right past the comics. Why is that?
    Maybe DC could do something like the Amazon Recommendations to market to people who read books.Than tap into that specific market. For example, I love the Percy Jackson books because it is heavy on Greek Mythology. This is one of the reasons I bought DCnU Wonder Woman.

  10. #1615
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    And Halo, of course. I think it sold 3 to 4 million, right?

    But if that's the reality of the situation, then that doesn't mean good things for the comic industry in the coming decades. And it kind of implies that the industry itself is resigned to that fact; content to draw as much money from the existing audience as possible. Which I guess is all they can do, barring any other alternative.
    You're right it is only going to get harder, for comics to compete with games as the next generation comes about. I look at like this where as comics, was what kids did for their pass time back in the day. It is now video games with their online play and other functions, but looking at reports this year the ones coming out of comics. Has been better than the ones coming out the gaming industry.
    Animals sense weakness, sharks smell blood in water
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  11. #1616

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    Ultimately comics are just not a great medium for most. They are expensive for the very limited amount of entertainment they give you if you consume them as most people do (rather than looking at each page as a work of art to be poured over and cherished), they come out monthly therefore requiring an incredible attention span and patience (especially as each issue, generally, isn't meant to be enjoyed on its own, but as part of a larger whole), and they require reading rather than active participation.

    Novels give you more time for your dollar and are complete in and of themselves even when they continue (Harry Potter's first book is still a full story), videogames give you more time and a bigger splash in regards to graphics AND allow interactivity and is a one time buy, TV is a flat fee and with infinite hours available subsequently, movies are most in your face and an 'event' and are not serialized...

    Comics require you to go back every month and buy another issue of a story you probably barely remember for an overinflated price; you have to make a decision to buy that same book every month, to put money forth to do so.

    Few models require that, and those that do (print) are dying.

    TV requires no repeated investment. Movies and videogames might be impulse buys, and are easy to justify as a one time expense.

    Something very fundamental has to change about the comics production and distrubtion model for it to expand and succeed, and I honestly don't know what it is.
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  12. #1617
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    On the other hand, I think DC took good advantage of the video game demographics with DCU Online, which I think attracted much bigger numbers than comic book buyers. And this game in particular isn't just an adaptation video game, it's basically the whole pre-FP DCU in a virtual world. So it helps make the setting feel less overwhelming and more familiar. Making the transition of those people to reading comics is the next key I guess.
    I haven't tried that game specifically. Big fan of the Arkham Asylum / City games. Gotham City Impostors was a lot of fun too, and it's also recently gone FTP. But you're right, people that play these types of games are fans of the characters, they just need to be brought over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Ferro View Post
    Maybe DC could do something like the Amazon Recommendations to market to people who read books.Than tap into that specific market. For example, I love the Percy Jackson books because it is heavy on Greek Mythology. This is one of the reasons I bought DCnU Wonder Woman.
    A more interactive website and social networking features is one of the steps that needs to happen right now. I understand that DC had forums and actually shut them down due to too many trolls, but honestly they should've invested more money there and kept the trolls out altogether. Digital versions of print comics should be free with purchase, should be redeemable on DC's website, and then DC could track purchases and make recommendations, via email or after user log in to the site. They could even offer coupons for trades or free sample digital issues targeted specifically to certain users. These are all things that should already be taking place.

    They should also be sending offers like I just mentioned to everyone who has an acoount with the games Holmes and I just mentioned. I have a WBID to play Gotham City Impostors, and I'm sure there's a similar ID tied to DCU online users. The amount of comic book offers I've received in relation to that WBID? Not a one. It's a huge missed opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by timeismoney View Post
    You're right it is only going to get harder, for comics to compete with games as the next generation comes about. I look at like this where as comics, was what kids did for their pass time back in the day. It is now video games with their online play and other functions, but looking at reports this year the ones coming out of comics. Has been better than the ones coming out the gaming industry.
    The gaming industry is down, but I think that's mostly down to the consoles starting to show their age. New systems are on the horizon ( I guess the WiiU is already here), so I expect that to change.

    For companies like Valve, their Steam store is still seeing steady growth. The downward trend is pretty much exclusive to the console market.

    As for how kids pass their time, I don't necessarily agree. I played games when I was young and still managed to read lots of comics. I think it's more that video games have taken huge leaps in terms of look, content and narrative; while comics aren't quite keeping up in some of those instances, or flat out regressing in others, like content.

  13. #1618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    Ultimately comics are just not a great medium for most. They are expensive for the very limited amount of entertainment they give you if you consume them as most people do (rather than looking at each page as a work of art to be poured over and cherished), they come out monthly therefore requiring an incredible attention span and patience (especially as each issue, generally, isn't meant to be enjoyed on its own, but as part of a larger whole), and they require reading rather than active participation.

    Novels give you more time for your dollar and are complete in and of themselves even when they continue (Harry Potter's first book is still a full story), videogames give you more time and a bigger splash in regards to graphics AND allow interactivity and is a one time buy, TV is a flat fee and with infinite hours available subsequently, movies are most in your face and an 'event' and are not serialized...

    Comics require you to go back every month and buy another issue of a story you probably barely remember for an overinflated price; you have to make a decision to buy that same book every month, to put money forth to do so.

    Few models require that, and those that do (print) are dying.

    TV requires no repeated investment. Movies and videogames might be impulse buys, and are easy to justify as a one time expense.

    Something very fundamental has to change about the comics production and distrubtion model for it to expand and succeed, and I honestly don't know what it is.
    Agreed on all points.

    Short term I'd say either price has to come down for the amount of content being offered, or conversely more content has to be included to justify the price. Comics are currently a very poor value. Serious effort and money needs to go into a steady attempt at building the readerbase, not a one time marketing blitz to buoy sales for the next few years.

    The big two are backed by huge corporations, so they have no excuse. Someone just needs to come up with a convincing enough argument for the higher ups.

    There are lots of little steps they could be doing. Take for example the Young Justice television show. There's very little reason to pick up the comic if you watch the show. That's something that could be addressed very simply, with little to no cost. Instead of just introducing characters on the show, have them introduced in the comic book first, establish their origin and then bring them onto the show. Point the viewers to the comic if they want to learn more.

    It might not pull in huge numbers, but there's no cost and enough small efforts like that would yield results.

  14. #1619
    Member billee0918's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newell View Post
    October update:


    DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Oct) 2012 - 24,305,619 estimated units.

    DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Oct) 2011 - 20,993,869 estimated units.


    And here are the figures for the previous ten years:

    2011 - 26,522,201 estimated units
    2010 - 23,528,000 estimated units
    2009 - 24,126,336 estimated units
    2008 - 25,760,378 estimated units
    2007 - 29,597,217 estimated units
    2006 - 30,243,575 estimated units
    2005 - 26,995,698 estimated units
    2004 - 23,895,322 estimated units
    2003 - 22,344,120 estimated units
    2002 - 20,687,488 estimated units


    And out of interest, here's the Marvel numbers:


    Marvel Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Oct) 2012 - 24,981,048 estimated units.

    Marvel Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Oct) 2011 - 24,140,539 estimated units.


    And here are the figures for the previous ten years:

    2011 - 26,897,277 estimated units
    2010 - 29,998,200 estimated units
    2009 - 34,167,744 estimated units
    2008 - 37,269,988 estimated units
    2007 - 38,132,744 estimated units
    2006 - 34,647,105 estimated units
    2005 - 32,461,832 estimated units
    2004 - 32,021,066 estimated units
    2003 - 28,974,336 estimated units
    2002 - 28,473,404 estimated units
    Thank you for continuing to post these updates!

  15. #1620
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newell View Post
    October update:


    DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Oct) 2012 - 24,305,619 estimated units.

    DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Oct) 2011 - 20,993,869 estimated units.


    And here are the figures for the previous ten years:

    2011 - 26,522,201 estimated units
    2010 - 23,528,000 estimated units
    2009 - 24,126,336 estimated units
    2008 - 25,760,378 estimated units
    2007 - 29,597,217 estimated units
    2006 - 30,243,575 estimated units
    2005 - 26,995,698 estimated units

    2004 - 23,895,322 estimated units
    2003 - 22,344,120 estimated units
    2002 - 20,687,488 estimated units
    Forgive me for any deficiencies in my knowledge or analysis as a sales figure newbie, but having seen these figures for the first time I have a few observations and questions. First, what, if any, caused the 3,247,877 increase in overall sales between 2005 and 2006 (30,243,574 - 26,995,698)? And what, if anything does that say about the New 52, given that a subsequent post of yours establishes that "DC have sold about 3,311,700 more items than they did in 2011" presumably to tout the relaunch's benefits to the company? In other words, the change from by 2006 (no relaunch) doesn't seem very different then the change in 2011 (with relaunch)? Should one keep in mind the number of digital sales that are now supplementing hard copy sales?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherUnitNo_4 View Post
    Comichron has updated sales estimates!


    Top 10

    Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. sales
    1 Uncanny Avengers 1 $3.99 Marvel 303,722
    2 Avengers Vs X-Men 12 $4.99 Marvel 171,452
    3 Batman 13 $3.99 DC 148,305
    4 Justice League 13 $3.99 DC 117,752
    5 A Plus X 1 $3.99 Marvel 105,420
    6 Green Lantern 13 $2.99 DC 91,814
    7 Detective Comics 13 $3.99 DC 76,392
    8 AVX Vs 6 $3.99 Marvel 75,298
    9 Walking Dead 103 $2.99 Image 74,378
    10 AVX Consequences 1 $3.99 Marvel 73,272

    Justice League, Batman and Green Lantern are ridiculously healthy.
    They do seem "healthy" but what about comparing these figures to previous ones and aren't we still looking at an erosion of Justice League purchases? I ask because in various places on the web I've come across proponents of the Superman and Wonder Woman pairing declare that sales prove the couple is a popular money maker. Yet, the numbers tell a somewhat different story from what I can tell. Before the much hyped "Power Couple" kissed, Justice League (#11 to be precise) sold 123,971 units. Then the kiss happened in Justice League #12 with sales reaching 120,796 in August, plus and extra 40,439 in September as a result of reprints, etc. (I'm not sure the reason). For the popularity of Superman and Wonder Woman to be proven on the basis of sales alone, as the couple's fans were inclined to do before any figures post the publicized stunt were made available, wouldn't sales of Justice League need to show an improvement over pre-kiss (i.e. Justice League #11) levels or at least a sign of some retention of those who purchased Justice League #12 which included the kiss? I ask because clearly based on the data above Justice League #13 -- the first post-kiss issue -- sold only 117,752 units. By my calculations, that's a loss of 6,219 just from pre-kiss sales. In short, is there any evidence that Superman and Wonder Woman hooking up has benefited, or will benefit, DC Comics' bottom line in the long term?
    Last edited by misslane38; 11-13-2012 at 05:00 PM.

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