The DC Numbers/Estimates Mega Thread

[Desaad]

Cavemold is correct--AVX is a bi-weekly book, unfortunately. So that means we'll get 2 issues of AVX in the Top 10 every month for 6 months.

But as I and others keep saying, what does Marvel do *after* that? Yet another event?

They'll have relaunched and reshifted their creative teams in the aftermath of AvX, which will have a huge amount of buzz behind it if AvX performs as expected.

You call sales on Avengers 'moribund', but they are still doing great relative to the rest of the Marvel line and relative to a lot of DC's output; and that kind of fatigue and lack of excitement comes with people getting 'used' to a writer on a franchise, it being less fresh. That's the whole point of shifting things around, after all. Bendis on X Men is going to be huge. A newly reorganized Avengers group is going to be huge. All of that will be huge for at least the first 6 months. At least.

Maybe it won't last, who knows. But by that same token we won't know where the DC line is at that point, so nothing is sure.

I guarantee you that a reorganization of the Avengers and X Men lines, with new spots for guys like Aaron, Hickman, Bendis, etc is going to sell and sell big.

These are buzz worthy writers that will be changing the style and status quo of their titles hugely, and that is giong to be noticed. Even Aaron on a nothing character like the Hulk lead to huge sales at the start. Schism, which was a reorganization of the Mutant line, has been selling very well, consistently, and I think this is going to be even bigger. Bendis is certainly a bigger name than either Aaron or Gillen.

There is no reason to undercut Marvel out of some misplaced loyalty to DC. I'm excited to see what comes after. I think Marvel is really going to be firing on all cylinders, as DC has been.

[SpideyCzar]

I'm not surprised Marvel has the money and units... their sheer output is amazing. Glad to see DC get the top 10 two months in a row, and I'm particularly amused that Aquaman of all heroes is one of those holding the X-Men and Avengers at bay :)

However, with all the A vs X hype, I'm not going to be surprised if DC can't pull it off three months in a row

I think March would be the month the top 10 gets broken up since A vs X #0 is released in March. But I see DC holding the other top 10 places so 9 out 10 is not bad. Then April you have A vs X #1 and 2. Be interesting if those massive pre orders for A vs X take away orders for any of the DC top 10.

Hats off to DC though, their top level titles of the New 52 are selling well and the couple I read are entertaining.

[weeks]

I guarantee you that a reorganization of the Avengers and X Men lines, with new spots for guys like Aaron, Hickman, Bendis, etc is going to sell and sell big.

i've only read one story by hickman(the red wing), but i think i would definitely give an avengers book by him a shot. and i saw he is off fantastic four (early fall i think) so it would free him up to get shifted around.

[Flashpoint]

They'll have relaunched and reshifted their creative teams in the aftermath of AvX, which will have a huge amount of buzz behind it if AvX performs as expected.

You call sales on Avengers 'moribund', but they are still doing great relative to the rest of the Marvel line and relative to a lot of DC's output; and that kind of fatigue and lack of excitement comes with people getting 'used' to a writer on a franchise, it being less fresh. That's the whole point of shifting things around, after all. Bendis on X Men is going to be huge. A newly reorganized Avengers group is going to be huge. All of that will be huge for at least the first 6 months. At least.

Maybe it won't last, who knows. But by that same token we won't know where the DC line is at that point, so nothing is sure.

I guarantee you that a reorganization of the Avengers and X Men lines, with new spots for guys like Aaron, Hickman, Bendis, etc is going to sell and sell big.

These are buzz worthy writers that will be changing the style and status quo of their titles hugely, and that is giong to be noticed. Even Aaron on a nothing character like the Hulk lead to huge sales at the start. Schism, which was a reorganization of the Mutant line, has been selling very well, consistently, and I think this is going to be even bigger. Bendis is certainly a bigger name than either Aaron or Gillen.

There is no reason to undercut Marvel out of some misplaced loyalty to DC. I'm excited to see what comes after. I think Marvel is really going to be firing on all cylinders, as DC has been.

On the contrary, I'll most likely be one of the very first ones to add Avengers to my pull list once the new writer and artist are announced. I love the Avengers and after suffering through my 8 year long boycott of the franchise thanks to Bendis's trainwreck stewardship of the franchise, I long to welcome it back with open arms.

But I'm not undercutting them by saying that most of their books are underwhelming at best and impenetrable at worst. Marvel desperately needs a fresh start and Bleeding Cool's rumor of a staggered relaunch to compete with the New 52 does sound promising.

Having said that, I stand by my earlier post. Bendis isn't the invincible sales juggernaut he once was. Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison have become DC's deadly 1-2 punch double threat that create Top 5 and Top 10 smashes right out of the bag. Meanwhile, DC grooms Scott Snyder and Jeff Lemire as their new golden boys to follow in their footsteps.

Bendis: Spider-Woman bombed, Moon Knight cancelled and the Avengers line is getting beaten by Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash and Batman & Robin every single month. I say that as someone who staunchly defends Bendis's run of Daredevil as one of the best runs of any comic book in the past twenty years. It's not unfair to point out that he has lost some of his mojo saleswise and he needs to get it back--which I think is part of the reason Marvel is probably giving him the X-Men. They don't want DC's golden boys to supplant their own at the top of the Diamond charts (which they clearly have).

Pairing Bendis with X-Men as B.C. has rumored will undoubtedly get huge buzz and good initial sales. However, if Bendis just continues to do endless decompression and endless talking heads drivel like he's been doing with Avengers the last few years? Then I wouldn't be surprised to see his newfound pattern of a quick sales burst followed by an immediately following sales decline continue with the X-books. If we get an action-packed run that keeps the talking heads to a reasonable minimum, he'll make a comeback.

Right now, though, the top of the sales charts are all Johns, Morrison and Snyder...with the Bendis books well behind them.

[Roland Gunner]

I guarantee you that a reorganization of the Avengers and X Men lines, with new spots for guys like Aaron, Hickman, Bendis, etc is going to sell and sell big.

These are buzz worthy writers that will be changing the style and status quo of their titles hugely, and that is giong to be noticed. Even Aaron on a nothing character like the Hulk lead to huge sales at the start. Schism, which was a reorganization of the Mutant line, has been selling very well, consistently, and I think this is going to be even bigger. Bendis is certainly a bigger name than either Aaron or Gillen.

While I agree that AvX is going to do big business for Marvel and that they will benefit from whatever comes after, the evidence that any of Aaron, Hickman, or Bendis is able to move units based on their name is terrible. Okay, Incredible Hulk managed to get in the top 10 for a month or two but it was also backed by a half dozen variants and was drawn by Marc Silvestri, one of the biggest names in the industry. After four months it is now selling between the second Green Lantern title and Swamp Thing, hardly a great achievement. Hickman's Ultimates has been a mid-tier seller at best and while Bendis used to be a huge draw he's killed that off with too many disappointing projects. In the last few years Spider-Woman, Moon Knight, the first Ultimate Spider-Man relaunch, and all of his creator owned stuff have under-performed. If Bendis gets a new X-book it will post big numbers for few months, but I don't see any reason to think he can re-capture the magic of his early USM or Avengers stuff.

[Flashpoint]

I think March would be the month the top 10 gets broken up since A vs X #0 is released in March. But I see DC holding the other top 10 places so 9 out 10 is not bad. Then April you have A vs X #1 and 2. Be interesting if those massive pre orders for A vs X take away orders for any of the DC top 10.

Hats off to DC though, their top level titles of the New 52 are selling well and the couple I read are entertaining.

I don't think AVX will take away sales from the DC books, but I do think AVX will outsell those books--mostly due to event hype, tons of action and hot artists.

Again, the biggest threat to DC's current Top 10 lineup is DC's own new books: another Morrison Batman book and the winning combo of George Perez & Kevin Maguire on Worlds' Finest, plus the inevitable success of Earth 2.

In all fairness, perhaps the one story we all are unfairly overlooking is the continued sales success of both Wonder Woman and Teen Titans.

Both books are rock solid in the Top 20 with a veritable lockdown on their rankings. This is very noteworthy for 2 reasons. First, Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang have managed to completely erase the stench of Straczynski's disastrous WW run from memory and restored WW to levels of critical acclaim and sales success not seen in many years. Their stock has risen dramatically as a result of their overwhelmingly successful stewardship of the Wonder Woman franchise and sales are stable at a high level. These two are in the enviable position of being the team that turned Wonder Woman around and brought in many new readers who never bought WW before. Watch to see what they do next.

Second and perhaps more importantly, Scott Lobdell and Brett Booth have a bonafide Top 20 hit in Teen Titans. We're in the 7th month of their run and TT remains solidly in the Top 20 selling its highest numbers since Geoff Johns' relaunch of 2003. They've got some newfound clout, too, and their TT revival could provide some unexpectedly high sales for the first TT spinoff, The Ravagers, a book that could conceivably have much higher sales than any of us would've expected. If Ravagers is a hit, it could join Justice League, Teen Titans and Earth 2 as DC's 4th hit team book as well also being yet another locked-down spot in Diamond's Top 20.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

While I agree that AvX is going to do big business for Marvel and that they will benefit from whatever comes after, the evidence that any of Aaron, Hickman, or Bendis is able to move units based on their name is terrible. Okay, Incredible Hulk managed to get in the top 10 for a month or two but it was also backed by a half dozen variants and was drawn by Marc Silvestri, one of the biggest names in the industry. After four months it is now selling between the second Green Lantern title and Swamp Thing, hardly a great achievement. Hickman's Ultimates has been a mid-tier seller at best and while Bendis used to be a huge draw he's killed that off with too many disappointing projects. In the last few years Spider-Woman, Moon Knight, the first Ultimate Spider-Man relaunch, and all of his creator owned stuff have under-performed. If Bendis gets a new X-book it will post big numbers for few months, but I don't see any reason to think he can re-capture the magic of his early USM or Avengers stuff.

If Marvel did a big line wide reshuffling and promoted the heck out of it (which they will) I think they could really get competitive for the top 10 spots. Let everyone know that it's a fresh jumping on point and I think it's definitely possible. Do I expect them to hit 200K post AVX? Absolutely not, but 100K? Quite feasible.

I think a bigger question is whether or not they'll drop any prices to make the product more inviting. It's easier to forgive the creative missteps on a cheaper book.

[Mr. Holmes]

This is just depressing. I really wish fans would buy books that don't just star big name superheroes.

[Yttrium]

I'm not surprised at all to see I, Vampire and Frankenstein drop out of the top 100. I like Legion Lost, but I'm not surprised to see that one drop out either. I'm a bit concerned about how low LSH is in the list, though.

The first round of replacements will be coming along in a couple months, which is good timing. I'm sure DC is working on the next round. It's good to keep refreshing the line by dumping the low selling stuff and bringing in new stuff.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

This is just depressing. I really wish fans would buy books that don't just star big name superheroes.

This is one thing I think everyone can agree on.

And three cheers for Conan breaking the top 100.

[Cavemold]

Now with sales out I want covers now!

[Ari Gold]

Even Aaron on a nothing character like the Hulk lead to huge sales at the start.

By the 3rd issue, the first one that wasn't double-shipped by Marvel, it was out of the Top 30.

EDIT: Aaron is already on an X-Team book. I just think Avengers, X-Men & Spider-Man are going to continue to sell as they have, unless Marvel commits to fewer $3.99 titles, and fewer double-shipped titles, I don't see how anything is going to change across their universe.

[Badger1701]

I'm not surprised at all to see I, Vampire and Frankenstein drop out of the top 100. I like Legion Lost, but I'm not surprised to see that one drop out either. I'm a bit concerned about how low LSH is in the list, though.

The first round of replacements will be coming along in a couple months, which is good timing. I'm sure DC is working on the next round. It's good to keep refreshing the line by dumping the low selling stuff and bringing in new stuff.

On the other hand, I do hope that they'll use Wave 2 as another opportunity to publicize all of their surviving titles and hopefully not only bring more new readers in, but bring attention to some of the titles that are critically-acclaimed but low sellers. That way, we hopefully won't have to have a new wave every 6-8 months as they continue cancelling the low-selling titles.

[Mr. Holmes]

This kind of goes back to that discussion on the Before Watchmen announcements. You can criticize them on how they need to bring new ideas instead of retreating that, but as a business, these sales charts don't encourage them to do that at all. If Demon Knights gets canceled (which is only a matter of time) I definitely need to start looking more into indie comics to support.

[Flashpoint]

While I agree that AvX is going to do big business for Marvel and that they will benefit from whatever comes after, the evidence that any of Aaron, Hickman, or Bendis is able to move units based on their name is terrible. Okay, Incredible Hulk managed to get in the top 10 for a month or two but it was also backed by a half dozen variants and was drawn by Marc Silvestri, one of the biggest names in the industry. After four months it is now selling between the second Green Lantern title and Swamp Thing, hardly a great achievement. Hickman's Ultimates has been a mid-tier seller at best and while Bendis used to be a huge draw he's killed that off with too many disappointing projects. In the last few years Spider-Woman, Moon Knight, the first Ultimate Spider-Man relaunch, and all of his creator owned stuff have under-performed. If Bendis gets a new X-book it will post big numbers for few months, but I don't see any reason to think he can re-capture the magic of his early USM or Avengers stuff.

Agreed and very well-said.

Bendis isn't as big a draw as he once was. The twin failures of both Spider-Woman and Moon Knight did put a major dent in what used to be Bendis's undisputed sales invincibility. Right now, his career and his sales track record are in legitimate need of a major sales smash if he is to reclaim his former #1 glory days. It's a big stretch as an analogy, but I think it's a fair one: Bendis right now is like Tom Cruise a year ago. He needs his own #1 smash Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol to reclaim his slot alongside the current bestselling wonder boys Johns, Morrison and the newly-ascendant Snyder.

Aside #1: I am sincerely blown away at Snyder's unquestionable sales success and newfound clout. The guy is undoubtedly a powerhouse in the comics industry that I never saw coming.

Aside #2: Geoff Johns. There is no one hotter right now. Nobody even comes close. The unexpected rise of Aquaman into a Top 10 smash that beats every single Marvel Comic the last 2 months is an unqualified and unprecedented turnaround that adds to Johns' formidable reputation as possibly the most successful writer in comics. It's no wonder that Tom Breevoort said Johns is the one writer he would love to steal away from DC. Geoff can turn almost any franchise into a hit--even Aquaman. He's the one writer who I always want to know what he's doing next.

His stellar success at turning people who swore they'd never, ever read Aquaman into avowed fans of the character is miraculous. He is DC's undisputed secret weapon and I can't wait to find out what he's got planned for DC next. His success as the go-to-guy for turning around DC franchises is a joy to watch (with Azzarello & Chiang's WW right behind him).