Is DC even going to try to compete with Marvel on the big screen?

[Kiryu]

I'm not trying to excuse WB's failures at all. But I think it's disingenuous to try and paint this as all WB's error when Whedon has his own share of failures. You may like Serenity, but, finacially, it's a dud. You may want to put all the blame for Dollhouse on Fox; fact is, it, too, flopped. Not every Whedon project is a success. Moreover, I'm sure Whedon did a lot of great work on Avengers; but he is not the sole reason for the Avengers success. He also had a lot of help before he even came on board.

So I'm not saying it was an intelligent decision on WB's part to let Whedon go. I'm saying I don't think we can be certain that Whedon's WW was going to work just because Avengers worked out so well. WW and Avengers are very different projects with different situations at different times.

But he IS the reason the movie is getting a near perfect score from critics. He uh, wrote and directed the movie and the performances. He was the leader of the team working on the movie, he made the pitch that got Kevin Fiege to say "Hey do this for us". So while he may not be the reason it had so much hype and anticipation, the movie he directed, edited, and wrote, is what's going to get repeat business. It's whats going to get people back in the seats all week long. It's whats gonna get Avengers to a billion dollars this weekend.

All I'm saying is WB are idiots for firing Whedon, because imo it's a certainty he'd have made a better WW movie then their Jonah Hex movie, their GL movie, and Superman Returns. And that would be a better spot for WB to be in now. And looking at WB's decisions with there superhero franchises, they suck. They make bad decisions all the time and imo continue to do so with things like hiring Zack Synder.

And personally, I'm glad WB fired him. They've proven to be inept at bringing their superhero franchises to life so I'm glad someone as talented and creative as Joss is working for a company that knows how to do these things. And I can say with certainty that Joss's Wonder Woman would've been a better film then Green Lantern, which is a huge blemish.

[Dr. Hurt]

Even if Whedon was wrong for WW, they could have used him for other franchises. The guy loves superheroes, and is very good with balancing action, character development and comic relief.

The Avengers was amazing in my opinion. I remember a few years back, staying after the credits of Ironman. Nick Fury appears and mentions the Avengers. "Yeah right" i thought to myself. I'm so glad to be proven wrong. What a wonderful ride it has been since then!

[blinker]

I don't think Whedon would be wrong with Wonder Woman, what I think is that Fans would hate his version of Wonder Woman, but it would get high marks from critics and do really well at the box office.

[Bamf25]

Warner Brothers did a tremendous job with Harry Potter franchise so they do know how to create long running movie series based on existing property. 8 successful movies with almost every same cast intact, that's not an easy feat. all they have to do is trust DC charactors and its universe just like they did with Harry Potter.

Yes they did a great job with Harry Potter, but watching the commentary on the last movie you need to be mindful of a few things.

1. J K Rowlings was a very active producer on all the films
2. The directer and writer stated many times that before they made any major changes between the book and the movie they got her OK to change it.
3. The creater was the final decision on what went into to movies not WB execs, which was very smart.
4. The property while large was still very limited in comparision to comic heroes. Harry is the same basic character from start to finish. The world is consistant. There is one creative vision to draw upon. Comics are the oppiset; many creaters, many character versions, a constantly changing world, basically a mess of different visions and creaters. This make adapting a comic character much much more difficult.
5. WB realized they had a winner property here, it was very close to a no brainer, and they did not mess with it.

I really argue making the Harry Potter movies from the standpoint you are stating was relatively easy, the biggest issue was keeping the cast together, and with how flush with cash the series was by movie three, that problem solved itself.

So how does this translate to WB and Joss Whedon and the Avengers? Basically WB has been doing everything wrong (except the HP series), when Marvel has been doing it right. Pick the right writer, director, and producer and getting the hell out of the way. They seem intent on getting the hot director, and the big name actor (I am looking at you GL, and possibly Superman), rather than picking the people with enthusiasm, ideas, and a vision. Think back at the Avengers and other recent Marvel films, they risked alot on newer actors, and out of the box thinking on directors and writers, and it works. I know Joss is a comic geek, but you can not tell me it was not a big risk picking a guy who's biggest movie success was Serenity? But Joss had what they needed, and they decided to trust him, rather than going for somebody bigger.

[Mat001]

So now no one should get fired for something they may do years in the future on a different project for a different company? A project that had loads of ground work built by others.

Did Whedon have more creative control over Serenity and Dollhouse than he did with Avengers? How mightily successful were those?

It wasn't a matter of creative control. In the case of "Firefly", the series was shuffled around by Fox. Any show that's shuffled around like that during its first season is going to struggle to find its audience. Fox is notorious for cancelling shows that were good, critically and audience wise, because it's either too expensive or they cannot figure out their lineup. "Serenity" didn't have the years on television that "Star Trek" had which is why it didn't do well at the box office unlike Trek. "Dollhouse" was put on Friday nights where shows will not have a strong audience as say Thursday, because people are going out more and more on Fridays.

Even if Whedon was wrong for WW, they could have used him for other franchises. The guy loves superheroes, and is very good with balancing action, character development and comic relief.

Correction, he likes Marvel heroes more than DC ones. Something he's admitted to quite a few times. It's why he had worked on the first feature film for the X-Men. Why he did The Astonishing X-Men and subsequently Runaways. And why it was a no brainer to hire him for "The Avengers".

[Vibranium]

It wasn't a matter of creative control. In the case of "Firefly", the series was shuffled around by Fox. Any show that's shuffled around like that during its first season is going to struggle to find its audience. Fox is notorious for cancelling shows that were good, critically and audience wise, because it's either too expensive or they cannot figure out their lineup. "Serenity" didn't have the years on television that "Star Trek" had which is why it didn't do well at the box office unlike Trek. "Dollhouse" was put on Friday nights where shows will not have a strong audience as say Thursday, because people are going out more and more on Fridays.

it would have probably been killed on Thursday nights, going up against NBCs comedies and CBS' CSI lineup

[Mat001]

I didn't say it had to be on Thursdays. Just that there's a difference between a prime night versus a dead one.

[Vibranium]

I think if a show is really good, people will stick around to watch it....so people favored going out more than 'Dollhouse'

the show was ok, but Im not missing out on drinking for it

[americanwonder]

... he states that the biggest lesson he has learned was to remove the "Joss" out of his productions which polarize and alienate who could be his audience, focusing on showing more of what he's dying to fit in as his personal voice/dialogue/witty banter without the dialogue - in other words, he's learned to self-edit...keep what appeals/attracts his audience while at the same time removing what it is about that appeal that limits the production to just a cult following...and as we can see to the most desirable financial results...

... the likelihood of a successful Whedon's Wonder Woman today is much, much higher than it was when WB removed him from the project.

This is my favorite part of your post. I do think Whedon has grown much as a creator and is better now than he was then.

... Oh as an side, did you know that the current president of FOX is not only a personal friend of Whedon's, but his past producer on guess what...yeah Dollhouse and Firefly (as well as the rest).

Yay for friends. So? I'm not seeing your point here.

... So while he may not be the reason it had so much hype and anticipation, the movie he directed, edited, and wrote, is what's going to get repeat business...

This I can agree with. Although I still say all the others involved deserve lots of kudos as well.

[Vibranium]

Fox (the tv side) gets a lot of undue crap for early cancellations, but people fail to consider that they say YES when pretty much every other network says NO

[Flyattractor]

The best thing about the Avengers movie was that there were only a few moments of actual "Whedon" in it.
Thats what makes this movie good.
And I am VERY SICK of this WHEDON IS THE COMIC BOOK MESSIAH bull crap.
Whedon fans have got to be about the worst out there.

[EricAD]

The best thing about the Avengers movie was that there were only a few moments of actual "Whedon" in it.
Thats what makes this movie good.
And I am VERY SICK of this WHEDON IS THE COMIC BOOK MESSIAH bull crap.
Whedon fans have got to be about the worst out there.

Dude, you are showing how little you obviously know of Whedon's prior work, because Avengers reads like Textbook Joss Whedon. All the parts fans love--the character interactions, the off the cuff one liners, almost everything Hulk does, freakin' SHAWARMA...pure Joss. The fact that you don't see it shows you know very little of his style.You come off as one of those people who love to say "the Beatles weren't really that great" and it turns out you've never really listened to any Beatles songs other that the singles they play on the radio.

[Flashpoint]

Correction, he likes Marvel heroes more than DC ones. Something he's admitted to quite a few times. It's why he had worked on the first feature film for the X-Men. Why he did The Astonishing X-Men and subsequently Runaways. And why it was a no brainer to hire him for "The Avengers".

Mat001--thank you for being a voice of reason on this thread. You're correct. After Joss Whedon was let go from WW by WB, he publicly stated he gets Marvel characters better than he gets DC characters. He himself went on record saying he's better on Marvel than DC.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

Yeah, you read that right: The Avengers is garnering rave audience reviews that put it in the same category as Titanic and E.T. The Extraterrestrial.

Oh, and then there's that other little newsflash about how The Avengers was at one point selling 19 tickets per second. Calling this movie a monster hit is putting it mildly. Add in the fact that The Avengers is also about to make Nolan's Dark Knight 2nd best in the box office record books.

Whatever WB is going to do or whatever announcements they have to make this summer? It damn well better be big. For Warner Brothers, the heat is on. Big time.

I say we just go ahead and start the countdown to a Justice League movie right now. Because after numbers like this? Every studio in town is going to be falling all over themselves to make the next big superhero team movie. And as far as I'm concerned, The Avengers just gave a humongous kickstart to Robinov's Justice League plans.

As expected, The Avengers was huge on IMAX during its opening weekend breaking numerous records. Domestically, it made $15.3 million in 275 IMAX theaters, which just overtook Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part II's record. It could have earned more, but they ran out of tickets
http://www.the-numbers.com/interacti...hp?newsID=7253




http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=avengers11.htm

Domestic: $244,014,897 32.8%
+ Foreign: $500,100,000 67.2%
= Worldwide: $744,114,897

[Vibranium]

there was probably some sort of meeting in the WB/DC offices Monday morning....hell Sunday afternoon