Hellboy: The Midnight Circus

[Middenway]

I'll be sticking with trades right through to the end. I don't unnecessarily re-buy anything, so until my trades fall apart, no matter how pretty they may be, I'll never buy the Library Editions (which means I almost certainly will buy them eventually ((maybe 15 years from now)), because the trades certainly don't last forever, especially Strange Places, the Hellboy book I've read the most. It's dropping pages everywhere). I can't buy these hardcover original graphic novels (though I am severely tempted... I want to read the these stories!). No author notes, no sketchbooks? That's a major dealbreaker for me. I'll patiently wait for a better format. At the moment they just feel like a slightly longer hardcover version of the standard issues. Hopefully one day there will be a trade that fits nicely with the others, otherwise the OGN stories are just artificially separated from the whole. Everything has always been collected in the trades. I see no reason to mess with such a beautiful promise to the readers.

As far as I can see, the only reason the OGNs exist is to make them visually distinct from the issues of Hellboy in Hell on the comic book shelves. I find it very unlikely there won't be a trade collection at some point in the future.

[mushroom2703]

Haha. I'm not suprised they're denying it though, for this very reason. The only reason I bought house of the living dead in that format is because they said they're going to be putting off collecting them in regular trade. As soon as they give I'll be done with them. I think they're a little short for the price they charge, but I can get over that, but I had issues with the spine/binding as well, and that's also really down to putting such a short number of pages in HC. Same deal with the serenity book ogn. Any hellboy is win but its definetely not the optimal format for me.

[horror_of_sorts]

The only reason I bought house of the living dead in that format is because they said they're going to be putting off collecting them in regular trade. As soon as they give I'll be done with them.

Do you know where they said this? I don't see why they would wait longer to collect them other than the OGNs will be less frequent due to their size so the wait for a trade worth of material is longer?

[mushroom2703]

Do you know where they said this? I don't see why they would wait longer to collect them other than the OGNs will be less frequent due to their size so the wait for a trade worth of material is longer?

Nope. I tend to avoid most interviews for fear of spoilers, so I just go by what the fine individuals here say usually. When I bought the book the concensus here seemed to be "will likely be collected eventually, but not for awhile". I bought it anyway to chekc out the book and judge it for myself. If it had been a softcover I think I would have been much more on board with it as a vehicle for further hellboy stories outside the main story, but as I said, I didn't think the quality of the book itself and price match the content. That is purely my opinion though and no way a factual statement on the matter. And the story itself was really awesome. They said at the time it was an experiment of sorts, so its worth sharing these opinions so they know how successful it was.

[Angilas-Man]

The big difference here is that a single comic issue is produced one month and then goes out of print only to (at least for a popular series like Hellboy) be packaged into trade paperbacks and hardcovers down the line. These hardcovers, to my knowledge, aren't going to go out of print, and they're widely available in bookstores - so they'll be at the same level as the tpbs, and collecting them in a tpb sort of defeats the purpose of the format. The Library Editions, however, are meant for hardcore fans and are intended to be this big library of everything Hellboy in a unique, prestigious format.

If I were to hazard a guess and put on my fortune tellers hat I'd say something like: Hellboy Library Edition 7, collecting the Bride of Hell tpb, House of the Living Dead, The Midnight Circus, and whatever the third hardcover will be.

(takes off hat)

[Kees_L]

The big difference here is that a single comic issue is produced one month and then goes out of print only to (at least for a popular series like Hellboy) be packaged into trade paperbacks and hardcovers down the line. These hardcovers, to my knowledge, aren't going to go out of print, and they're widely available in bookstores - so they'll be at the same level as the tpbs, and collecting them in a tpb sort of defeats the purpose of the format. The Library Editions, however, are meant for hardcore fans and are intended to be this big library of everything Hellboy in a unique, prestigious format.

If I were to hazard a guess and put on my fortune tellers hat I'd say something like: Hellboy Library Edition 7, collecting the Bride of Hell tpb, House of the Living Dead, The Midnight Circus, and whatever the third hardcover will be.

(takes off hat)

Yeah, I could live with that. (Albeit with ignoring any potential future pouting hardcore-hellist noting how such a Library Edition #7 would be mostly containing OHC content for which they had been forking over hard-earned moneys already. But yeah, anyone'd be free to refrain from buying new editions I suppose.)

Plus I would think that publishers would be free to be trying for as many different formats as how they would for attracting any sorts of different readers / buyers.
Whereas any such publishers wouldn't be only catering to your private or personal needs as fans, but more rather ANYONE's.

I really do think it silly for readers to be feeling they could only be reading TPB's and not anything else. Or that their bookshelves couldn't bear multiple formats.

I mean, if you like a book then you might wanna buy it. If you'd like comics, you will be running into potentially either floppy issues, softcover A5 TPB's, A4 TPB's, A5 hardcovers, or A4 hardcovers, or whatever. Run into MouseGuard and you'd be having totally square books OMG WWTT?! [ohmygolly whutwurtheythinking?!]

[Middenway]

The big difference here is that a single comic issue is produced one month and then goes out of print only to (at least for a popular series like Hellboy) be packaged into trade paperbacks and hardcovers down the line. These hardcovers, to my knowledge, aren't going to go out of print, and they're widely available in bookstores - so they'll be at the same level as the tpbs, and collecting them in a tpb sort of defeats the purpose of the format. The Library Editions, however, are meant for hardcore fans and are intended to be this big library of everything Hellboy in a unique, prestigious format.

If I were to hazard a guess and put on my fortune tellers hat I'd say something like: Hellboy Library Edition 7, collecting the Bride of Hell tpb, House of the Living Dead, The Midnight Circus, and whatever the third hardcover will be.

(takes off hat)

If that turns out to be the case, it could really sour me against the Hellboy comics. I really hope it doesn't go down that road. I still hold out hope that it won't. After all, look at Baltimore and the BPRD omnibuses. They came out as hardcovers and then were later released as paperbacks. I'm hoping the OGNs will only be in a hardcover format, and the eventual "softcover" version, will be the standard trade collecting multiple OGNs.

[Angilas-Man]

It may not be your preference... but really, if it does turn out this way it isn't that big a deal. One 50-60 page hardcover a year at $10 (if you buy online) isn't gonna break the bank or anything.

[Middenway]

The price was never a concern of mine, but rather the precedent which would be set. It may seem a trivial concern, but if you let the small things slide, the big things soon follow. Although it's all just idle speculation at this point. Nothing at all has been said one way or the other. Let's just wait and see for now.

[Kees_L]

Speaking of concerns I do not quite understand why this discussion seems to focus on the format of TPB's without at least taking into account the expressed reason for doing these specific 'original hardcovers' in the first place:

[CBR:] What led to the decision to publish this as a graphic novel rather than a short miniseries, as you and Richard usually do?

[MM:] What we've had a lot of these last couple years is one-shots and two-issue miniseries, and with me coming back to do the comic and Duncan [Fegredo] finishing up "The Fury," I wanted fewer regular comics on the stands as distraction. So I thought, if we're going to continue to do Hellboy stories set in the past, let's figure out a different kind of format for them that doesn't take away from the regular ongoing story. If this format works, we'll do other stories of Hellboy set in the past in that format, but the comic that will be on the stands will be me doing Hellboy.

(from this interview: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=32036)

To me it seems reasonable to note how there would be a purpose to be picking this format for specifically Hellboy-stories such as these, lying outside of the immediate ongoing narrative.
Because serving them as OGC's for a specific format, would likely help clarify the various narratives or hopping-on points for any kinds of readers in the ever-expanding array of Hellboy- and BPRD-related titles, especially when people might take specific interest in mr Mike back on art or the most recent spectacular events particularly.

In that light I think it would be good to appreciate just why they might be to go or stick with the format of slim HC's at all, good to appreciate such with having enough perspective on such, instead of with but one's own personal perspective, like instead of merely feeling hung up on a format of trades for just completely everything per se.

Such wouldn't be idle, as having enough perspective would never be idle, would be my perspective.

[Big_H]

It feels like something they are experimenting in. Which is fine so long as they are collected in a trade later. I collect Hellboy in TPB but since I didn't start reading HB until some what recently (Darkness Calls), I've picked up BPRD in the HC editions. I guess I'm just not a fan of the short OGN format.

[Middenway]

Speaking of concerns I do not quite understand why this discussion seems to focus on the format of TPB's without at least taking into account the expressed reason for doing these specific 'original hardcovers' in the first place.

Actually, that has been mentioned, though indirectly.

As far as I can see, the only reason the OGNs exist is to make them visually distinct from the issues of Hellboy in Hell on the comic book shelves.

I was specifically thinking of that quote when I wrote that. But the main reason it isn't been mentioned is because the OGNs are only indirectly relevant. No one (as far as I know) is debating whether the OGNs are a good thing or a bad thing (at least not in this thread... personally I think they're a good thing, though), but rather whether there will or won't be a standard trade collecting the stories featured in the OGNs.

My point was simply this: The Hellboy trade paperbacks have always set a high standard, collecting all stories, with author notes and sketchbooks, in a book that fits along side the others, clearly belonging to a set. It's a standard other publishers would do well to follow and shows the utmost respect for its readership. In short, it is a noble standard that should be upheld.

Not collecting the stories from the OGNs in a standard trade with a sketchbook and author notes at some point in the future, lowers that standard. The standard trade has always been the complete Hellboy stories, with insights into the behind the scenes process in the author notes and sketchbooks, with no exceptions or exclusions. The OGN stories should be no different than a short story, a one-shot, or a miniseries. Everything goes to the trades eventually, and so it should always be. To do otherwise would be to drag the standards the Hellboy trades have always adhered to through the mud.

As for the OGNs, they are a fine format, not my prefered way of collecting the stories, but I have no qualm with them. To me, they are simply nicer, less disposable versions of the standard issues with a hardcover.

But since the publishers have said absolutely nothing on the matter of a trade collection of the OGN stories one way or the other, this is certainly just idle speculation (although interesting idle speculation). The conversation can go back and forth forever with nothing accomplished since we are stating our arguments purely based on our feelings with no data whatsoever. It is pointless, other than to express our own feelings on the matter. I feel I have done so as articulately as I can manage, so there's really nothing more for me to add. I'll still be reading everyone else's comments though, as it is an interesting topic for me, but I'd much rather talk about how thrilled I am that Duncan Fegredo is back drawing Hellboy again.

Will The Midnight Circus be another Mexico story, or some other era in Hellboy's life? Do you guys think all the OGNs will be roughly the same length, or will they vary in length a great deal? Personally, I'm hoping the OGNs will start to come out more rapidly, with other artists onboard, like Kevin Nowlan and Scott Hampton. 2011 was a great year for these flashback Hellboy stories, and I hope that the OGNs will keep them on comic shelves as much as possible.

[Kees_L]

It feels like something they are experimenting in. Which is fine so long as they are collected in a trade later. I collect Hellboy in TPB but since I didn't start reading HB until some what recently (Darkness Calls), I've picked up BPRD in the HC editions. I guess I'm just not a fan of the short OGN format.

Well, for collecting Hellboy in TPB you'd be set already. As the slim HC's wouldn't be harming any such, because their stories'd be set in the past, they'd be outside of any immediate continuity or narrative.

And basically, IF they would get reprinted into a TPB format, such would be likely done once enough content would exist, like three of them, which would make any such a trade likely in about three years from now at the earliest? Or perhaps longer if the hardcovers would be around on the racks for sale in too much of an abundance still?
Because any of the upcoming "...And Other Stories"-material would all be In-Hell kind of stories, pertaining to the immediate continuity more rather? - or would such logics be flawed?

It appears trade-waiting can be done to preference. And so can hardcover-appreciating I would think, or either single-issue-devouring, side-by-side, with no bother.

And personally I find enjoying the stories far more important than whatever the format would be. As long as they're good. And they all are or I wouldn't buy them.

[Kees_L]

Will The Midnight Circus be another Mexico story, or some other era in Hellboy's life? Do you guys think all the OGNs will be roughly the same length, or will they vary in length a great deal? Personally, I'm hoping the OGNs will start to come out more rapidly, with other artists onboard, like Kevin Nowlan and Scott Hampton. 2011 was a great year for these flashback Hellboy stories, and I hope that the OGNs will keep them on comic shelves as much as possible.

I think different from any Mexico stuff. But apparently outside of normal continuity as a rule.

Scott Allie said somewhere mr. Mike functions as a writer as being to continuously running into getting ideas how particular as yet "unprocessed" events or particular voids in between known events would come to be adding up, or adding new vibrant perspectives or entanglements needing to get made into a story.
Stories which would need getting worked out or finished, in spite of the writing of the ongoing latest titles already, plus in spite of doing both the art and writing to Hellboy In Hell already.

A schedule likely busy enough there might not that much opportunity to expand on having slim-HC-format-stories more than how stand-alone stuff would have been before, especially with having full reign on art duties for regular Hellboy again?

And the art would seem reserved for like Corben and Fegredo I would think?

[Skinkie]

I'm hoping they will vary in length. I'd like to see these take advantage of not having to flow as individual issues as well as a full narrative (you know big moment at the end of every issue) and instead use the long form advantage to tell whatever length the story requires be that a 2 issue equivilant, or 4 issue. Whatever is needed for the story.