General AVX Speculation/Discussion *Spoilers*

[BBeeryan]

He better not punch Storm again.

[worstblogever]

I mean, I'm not surprised he overreacts and throws Earth's Mightiest Heroes in a gulag... that's his whole m.o. the past few years with detainment without trial... but for his sake, hopefully Cyclops is smarter than to trust Danger with keeping the Avengers incarcerated as warden again... right?

[ExodusCloak]

I mean, I'm not surprised he overreacts and throws Earth's Mightiest Heroes in a gulag... that's his whole m.o. the past few years with detainment without trial... but for his sake, hopefully Cyclops is smarter than to trust Danger with keeping the Avengers incarcerated as warden again... right?

Maybe they'll name the prison after Jean too.

[MarvelMaster616]

Love this cover! The AvX #9 cover was okay, but leaving it all up to Spider-Man and putting the Avengers in a prison is essentially setting the X-men up for a big defeat. And who needs that? Sinister always offers much more subtlety in his devious nature. He's been cunning, coy, and downright charismatic in how he takes on the X-men. He really made a splash with the relaunch and it'll be interesting to see how he takes on the Phoenix. He already has experience manipulating it and the women it affects. He made a clone of Jean Grey once before. Now let's see how he handles the rip-off character that was shoved into her place!

[worstblogever]

Maybe they'll name the prison after Jean too.

All I know is, there will be mirthful laughter if Jessica Jones is the first to attempt escape by recreating the scene towards the end of Shawshank Redemption.

[Seresecros]

avx vs spoilers

spoilers:

another Avengers sweep

end of spoilers

[Ebon Phantom]

Yes but you are assuming that 80 years later Hope would still be relevant. Hope could have died long before anyone knew her and another messiah been born. Anything could have happened in the 80 years since Hope's birth to have made her completely irrelevant or obscure to that timeline. And they did not know that nothing important happened in the other timeline. They sent another Madrox dupe to the other timeline as well. No one except Layla (who went with the dupe to Bishop's timeline) knew a damn thing about which timeline was more important or what role Hope played in either. So again, Madrox would have had to fill them in on all the details. That other dupe who went to that other timeline in fact became Cortex and was sent to kill all the future leaders of the Summers Rebellion.

There's no reason she wouldn't be relevant. In order for another messiah to replace her, mutantkind would literally have to face extinction again and get another restart. There's nothing at all to suggest something like that could happen. And I guess I was mistaken about Madrox. But the overall point remains out them having no reason not to react to the M on his face.

I may believe someone is a criminal but that doesn't mean I will fight it if someone else confesses and I have no proof. It simply became pointless for the X-men to continue to fight it given how the story unfolded. What was Cyke's backup plan for the Museum attack? What was his back-up plan for when Rogue's team betrayed the X-men at the start of MC. Give me a break dude. Cyke is not god, the dude has been caught without a plan plenty of times. If Cyke always has a plan and countless back-up plans then he must be one of the shittiest planners of all time to always have a plan but yet the X-men find themselves usually getting their ass handed to them initially before ultimately winning because they are the heroes.

How was it pointless when she was still guilty of the act itself. Doom's confession didn't change that part of the crime, only the reason behind it. And there's a clear difference between planning and reacting towards the unexpected and the expected. He's known the Phoenix would be coming for a while now, just like he's known the Avengers would come for Hope. And we've seen that he already had a plan in place to deal with their invasion.

Again, I don't think there is definitive evidence of the PF's criteria. You are assuming you know based on a small window that you have witnessed. It is not a long history from the perspective of the PF. There is no government in the world that would not assume the PF is a threat based on the limited knowledge we have of it and simply stick its head in the sand and say well it hasn't fucked us up yet so lets not prepare for it.

One can easily acknowledge the fact that the Earth's been around for a couple billion years without being destroyed by the Phoenix as a clear sign, even though it has mad an appearance multiple times on Earth.

It is judging them from a first impression because your first impression is based on seeing or being told they are black for example. A racist would simply stop right there and conclude on that person. And I have interviewed candidates plenty of times and formed first impressions based on their resumes and how they present themselves in an interview only for that first impression to be totally wrong. Some people are naturally better at presenting themselves than others.

Judging by race means judging before they made an impression. And unless you're regularly wrong about people, the odds still support it.

You specifically said the Shi'ar have this nice long history with the PF and so I pointed out that the nice long history is one of the Shi'ar trying to kill it because they think it is a destructive force and now you switch to the Kree? The fact is the civilization that you said is well versed in the PF thinks it is a danger. I could care less about the Kree because you did not mention them originally.

I'm not switching anything. The Shi'ar aren't going after the Phoenix because they believe it destroys worlds, they're gong after it because it's their personal enemy and they won't to remove it's ability to engage in conflict with them. That's a whole different situation then acting as if it will wipe out a world. You would note the Shi'ar had no trouble allying with Jean and later Rachel when they needed help, nor allowing them upon their homeworld. The mention of the Kree and others is additional proof about the Phoenix not being feared in such a way by other worlds.

Except it is being used. Magik is being used right now. She was used in SC and when she was taken out, a team was sent to bring her back.

Used right now for a whole different and specific reason. It says plenty towards her usefulness with Scott's current reason for using her. And she was used in SC alongside Pixie, so that doesn't disprove my claim.

Northstar specifically says in response to the landscape changing that it will be impossible to find Magik. It is right there for anyone to read. Again, it is absurd to pretend that there was any real way for them to find each other. They simply found each other because the writer wanted them to. It is debatable whether Pixie can come back to the exact spot she dropped them off and even if she could, it would not look to her like the same spot because the landscape would be completely different. So once again, once you decide to go after Magik, Pixie has to go along and stay with the team otherwise you risk her coming back alone and trying to find her away around when the entire landscape is now different.

Again, it was impossible because they didn't know where she was in the first place. The changing landscape made a complicated issue even harder. And there's nothing implying they had to travel far while they were down there, so the claim that they didn't travel far from each other is reasonable. And as I mentioned, unless the change was spacial, then there's no reason Pixie wouldn't have return to the same area, even if the landscape was changing. Still wouldn't be no strategic reason to send Pixie and risk her dying.

Not sure your point. The way characters are used changes all the time. Mags and Storm have periods where Cyke did not use them a lot and periods where he uses them more. Magik is no different.

As long as they were available, Scott has used them in every situation. On the otherhand, even when Magik was available, she was not used very much. There's a clear difference.

Because Cyke had no reason to believe Hope was going to be killed. They simply wanted her off planet and there would be nothing preventing her from being trained off planet. And no one disputes people were upset with Nightcrawler dying. I am disputing the notion that sacrificing yourself for someone else has a negative connotation. It doesn't. Plenty of people sacrifice for their countries or others and are celebrated as heroes. Nightcrawler is not any less of a hero because he died for Hope. There were just people who were pissed because they would have preferred he did not sacrifice himself for Hope but that does not mean his sacrfice was negative.

Um, yes he did. Cable specifically told him that due to the Avenegrs taking her, Hope wasn't around and the world burns. The implications pretty much suggest that she dies. If said people had no positive connotation towards Nightcrawler giving his life, then it's a negative connotation.

Messiah is a Jewish term. If you read the Old Testament or ask anyone who is a practicing Jew, the messiah is meant to come and destroy the enemies of the Jews. This is one of the reasons Jesus was not seen as the messiah by many Jews because instead of destroying the enemies of the Jews, he sacrificed himself instead. Incidentally, Christians got around this thorny issue by saying when Jesus comes back that is when he will fulfill his role as the messiah and destroy evil so even Christians believe in a messiah who will fight and lay waste to the enemies of Christianity. The Jews and Christians simply disagree regarding timing. So sorry, a Messiah was always intended to be someone who would fight.

Fight =/= destroying enemies. Even in Jewish eschatology, there's nothing about actual fighting. It's more about the blessed one who will rule over the new era. There's no fighting done by Jesus during Revelation either, more like an instant victory. Besides, unless there's something to suggest that the X-men have suddenly become religious, there's no reason to assume anyone thought that Hope would fight in her role as messiah, especially since her opposition is a concept, not an actual opponent.

Cyke is a general. Like and dislike mean nothing. You are confusing trust and like. Cyke has trusted Wolvy more during certain times than others. And again, during Schism Cyke specifically talks about how much he has come to trust and value Mags' opinion. You are free to believe what you want. I am simply saying what was said in the actual book by Cyke himself in regards to Mags.

Like and dislike means plenty, since the X-men are a family foremost. And it being said instory doesn't mean anything unless there's an actual example of it. The recent comments made about the Phoenix shows this best.

[MarvelMaster616]

avx vs spoilers

spoilers:

another Avengers sweep

end of spoilers

Well then I guess that would make the whole "No More Avengers" angle more necessary.

[Moonshine]

avx vs spoilers

spoilers:

another Avengers sweep

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Why am I suppose to buy the stupid tie in again Marvel? (Actually I didn't buy the first one either but here's why.) Can this get any more predictable? Everyone knew they'd never let Gambit beat Cap or Spiderman loose. I'm sure this time, it was a complete beat down instead of a fake loss too.

end of spoilers

[Viteh]

spoilers:

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Why am I suppose to buy the stupid tie in again Marvel? (Actually I didn't buy the first one either but here's why.) Can this get any more predictable? Everyone knew they'd never let Gambit beat Cap or Spiderman loose. I'm sure this time, it was a complete beat down instead of a fake loss too.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Spiderman technically lost, at least it says that the winner is Colossus

end of spoilers

[Moonshine]

spoilers:

Spiderman technically lost, at least it says that the winner is Colossus

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Ah, so Spiderman gave up like Magneto did and Gambit gets to be the only one so far one beaten completely?

end of spoilers

[Viteh]

spoilers:

Ah, so Spiderman gave up like Magneto did and Gambit gets to be the only one so far one beaten completely?

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Spiderman was losing, then he left because they found Hope somewhere else

end of spoilers

[Seresecros]

TT ALL ENDS HERE, TRUE BELIEVERS!!



AVX Vs #5 (of 6)
MATT FRACTION & JASON AARON (w)
Leinil Yu & JOHN ROMITA JR. (a)
COVER BY Leinil Yu
FIGHT POSTER VARIANT By JOHN ROMITA JR.
• The premier tie-in to AVENGERS VS. X-MEN marches on!
• BLACK PANTHER VS. STORM!
• ANGEL VS. HAWKEYE!
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99

[Slant]

Is BP wins....

[xgeek52]

oh, boy, this day just got interesting...

*looks for place to hide*