General AVX Speculation/Discussion *Spoilers*

[Hariel0079]

I think you raise a really excellent point about the X-Men as a whole, and I'm reminded of something I've had about the X-Men for quite sometime: the X-Men, as a franchise, is too good of a concept to be part of the Marvel Universe. In fact, the very concept and thematic ideas behind the X-Men do not work within the greater Marvel Universe for one simple reason: if the X-Men and other mutants, who have superpowers and do heroic things, are hated and feared, then why are the Avengers and Fantastic Four, who also have superpowers and do heroic things, are celebrated? And don't say "Because mutants are born with their powers and most of the other heroes of the Marvel Universe were not," because then that begs the question "Well then how do the citizens of the Marvel Universe know that the Avengers and FF aren't mutants themselves?"

In other words, the more engrained within the Marvel Universe superhero community the X-Men are, the more the central metaphor of mutants as minority group gets lost. Heck, it already started getting diluted the moment Marvel decided to virtually abandon the ideas Grant Morrison brought to the table with New X-Men--which I would argue were the logical extension of the franchise as a whole--that lead to the decimation of the mutant population in House of M. After all, you can't exactly have the whole "The X-Men protect the world who hates and fears them from evil mutants" if there are no "evil mutants" left to fight, which essentially forced the X-Men to become a group of militant separatists out to protect their own self-interests moreso than actually protecting the non-mutant humans.

Perhaps Marvel realized that since the X-Men are supposed to be more about integration, they probably figured by making them more apart of the Marvel Universe after Avengers vs. X-Men, and especially with Uncanny Avengers, is their way of getting back to that. But ironically, that's potentially the worst thing they can do to the franchise since it would further undermine the very concepts and ideas that made the X-Men comics books so successful in the first place.

That's the all around point to AvX event aside from the "Marvel NOW status quo" as in many interviews pointed out the X-men always seem to be in some sort of segregated corner/a universe of their own and marvel wants to put an end to that and integrate them just some fans are not liking the way how marvel is choosing to do it.

[keeper444]

Just read Vol.1 of Astonishing X-Men and I'm going to continue that through at least Joss Whedon's run. I was wondering if jumping on to Uncanny X-Men at Messiah Complex would be the best route to catch up to AvX. Only really want to focus on 1 or 2 X-Men comics and Uncanny seems to be the main. Would this be the best route?

I recomend uncanny and schism (not prelude, that doesn't matter) and maybe the 1rst number of watx (to see if is your thing) and uncanny (after renunbered).

[beserkerclaw]

Yes uncanny x-men is the best also the x-force series that started after Messiah complex links to Seceond coming which is important and is a sequel to Messiaih Complex. So if you read at least uncanny you would be good but i recomend Messiah Complex and Second Coming they deal with Hope Summers who is key in AVX

[BigT]

Just wait until the big reboot hits this fall, it's intended as a jumping on point so you don't need to read anything prior to that if you don't want to. If you're asking what comics you need to read to make sense of AvX, they don't exist.

Yeah I guess I was wondering which really make sense for AvX. I figured Uncanny X-Men would do this because it's the flagship title and then it's two off shoots Uncanny Vol.2 and Wolverine and the X-Men would lead into AvX. From what your saying it sounds like AvX just doesn't have anything to make real sense of the event?

[murdershewrote]

I think you raise a really excellent point about the X-Men as a whole, and I'm reminded of something I've had about the X-Men for quite sometime: the X-Men, as a franchise, is too good of a concept to be part of the Marvel Universe. In fact, the very concept and thematic ideas behind the X-Men do not work within the greater Marvel Universe for one simple reason: if the X-Men and other mutants, who have superpowers and do heroic things, are hated and feared, then why are the Avengers and Fantastic Four, who also have superpowers and do heroic things, are celebrated? And don't say "Because mutants are born with their powers and most of the other heroes of the Marvel Universe were not," because then that begs the question "Well then how do the citizens of the Marvel Universe know that the Avengers and FF aren't mutants themselves?"

In other words, the more engrained within the Marvel Universe superhero community the X-Men are, the more the central metaphor of mutants as minority group gets lost. Heck, it already started getting diluted the moment Marvel decided to virtually abandon the ideas Grant Morrison brought to the table with New X-Men--which I would argue were the logical extension of the franchise as a whole--that lead to the decimation of the mutant population in House of M. After all, you can't exactly have the whole "The X-Men protect the world who hates and fears them from evil mutants" if there are no "evil mutants" left to fight, which essentially forced the X-Men to become a group of militant separatists out to protect their own self-interests moreso than actually protecting the non-mutant humans.

Perhaps Marvel realized that since the X-Men are supposed to be more about integration, they probably figured by making them more apart of the Marvel Universe after Avengers vs. X-Men, and especially with Uncanny Avengers, is their way of getting back to that. But ironically, that's potentially the worst thing they can do to the franchise since it would further undermine the very concepts and ideas that made the X-Men comics books so successful in the first place.

Definitely. That was the HARDEST thing for me to come to terms with when I was first getting into comics/the X-men specifically. It was a huge mental hurdle for me to jump. ESPECIALLY when I read the MU tie-ins to AoX. Cause really, what is Sue Storm if not a much more powerful, smarter Skids? I think I just learned to suspend my disbelief long enough to go: whatever, it is what it is. But it took me a while to get to that point.

For the record, I don't think they should be entirely segregated. I loved reading the older books and seeing random Spiderman cameos and so on. One of my favorite issues of New Mutants involves Magik stealing Captain America's shield. But I think the concepts that drive the X-men franchise and the ones that promote the Avengers don't coexist well together extensively. Something would have to give, and it'd have to be the 'hated and feared' thing, which is kind of a huge thing for the X-men, so...

[Johan-El]

Just read Vol.1 of Astonishing X-Men and I'm going to continue that through at least Joss Whedon's run. I was wondering if jumping on to Uncanny X-Men at Messiah Complex would be the best route to catch up to AvX. Only really want to focus on 1 or 2 X-Men comics and Uncanny seems to be the main. Would this be the best route?

I would recommend that you read the big main story arcs and then if you are interested, read all the minor stories in between. So I would say get the following in trade paperback or hardcover, listed continuity-wise:

House of M (where most mutants are depowered)
Messiah Complex (where the first new mutant, Hope, is born)
Utopia (where the X-Men face off against Dark Avengers)
X-Force/Cable: Messiah War (where Cable raises Hope in the future, while chased by Bishop)
Second Coming (when Cable and Hope return to present day and there is a big battle)
Schism (where Cyclops and Wolverine disagree)
Wolverine and the X-Men vol 1 (because it's funny and I laugh when reading it)

Then you would be well prepared for AvX.

[KurtW95]

I would recommend that you read the big main story arcs and then if you are interested, read all the minor stories in between. So I would say get the following in trade paperback or hardcover, listed continuity-wise:

House of M (where most mutants are depowered)
Messiah Complex (where the first new mutant, Hope, is born)
Utopia (where the X-Men face off against Dark Avengers)
X-Force/Cable: Messiah War (where Cable raises Hope in the future, while chased by Bishop)
Second Coming (when Cable and Hope return to present day and there is a big battle)
Schism (where Cyclops and Wolverine disagree)
Wolverine and the X-Men vol 1 (because it's funny and I laugh when reading it)

Then you would be well prepared for AvX.

Or you save $150 and don't read it.

[MarvelMaster616]

Did anybody see this yet?

I think this is another one of those deceptive covers. I have no doubt that Cyclops and Emma will battle one another as the Phoenix continues to fester. But I'm equally sure this will lead to another one of those Confession-type moments we saw after Utopia. Covers and teasers rarely give the full story and can be very deceptive. I think Marvel is setting us up for a major twist. Case and point:

[alf_to_the_rescue]

Can you all remember to argue without resorting to childish responses please or personal attacks.

Yeah..... I've looked at wikipedia.org for many comics to get started Batman, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, IronMan but with X-Men it is very confusing. X-Men has tons of spin-offs and it doesn't really answer my questions on what would be the best way to head to AvX. Like I said I don't want to read every story and that's about what wikipedia teaches you. I come to this site for advice, opinions, information, and etc. on comics. My advice to you is to help out new readers on comics rather than push them away with an answer like wikipedia or don't give a response at all. I understand you may be sick of seeing the similar topics but that's what happens on forums.

You can ask questions about what issues to pick up here if you ever need to.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com...oks-to-Pick-Up

You should get useful responses.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I would recommend that you read the big main story arcs and then if you are interested, read all the minor stories in between. So I would say get the following in trade paperback or hardcover, listed continuity-wise:

House of M (where most mutants are depowered)
Messiah Complex (where the first new mutant, Hope, is born)
Utopia (where the X-Men face off against Dark Avengers)
X-Force/Cable: Messiah War (where Cable raises Hope in the future, while chased by Bishop)
Second Coming (when Cable and Hope return to present day and there is a big battle)
Schism (where Cyclops and Wolverine disagree)
Wolverine and the X-Men vol 1 (because it's funny and I laugh when reading it)

Then you would be well prepared for AvX.

I'd also recommend the book in which it was established that Cyclops routinely beats up Hope. Because he's insane and Wolverine is right.

In all seriousness, I'm somewhat puzzled you didn't include any book related to Fonji/Iron Fist.

[Goldgeller]

I think this is another one of those deceptive covers. I have no doubt that Cyclops and Emma will battle one another as the Phoenix continues to fester. But I'm equally sure this will lead to another one of those Confession-type moments we saw after Utopia. Covers and teasers rarely give the full story and can be very deceptive. I think Marvel is setting us up for a major twist. Case and point:

I hope so. I tried to get a cover discussion started earlier and only a few people took. Right-- the two will fight. "Wolverine" and Emma did kiss in AXM! Haha! AvX has had a few deceptive covers. AvX 8 and its variants were deceptive... I mean, I thought Namor and the P5 were going to crush the Avengers right there. And the whole "There can be only one" teaser was kinda weird-- they should the Avengers reaching for the Phoenix Force.

But we know someone dies in AvX. You got me thinking though about how "Marvel won't kill Emma" and I just began to agree because it's so obvious that they want Emma to die, plus the "Fatality!" teaser that there has to be some other trick coming. Plus, at this point, Emma and Cyclops are both immortal, and Phoenix leaving a host never kills the host. I mean, does anyone think Peter and Magik were engaged in anything other than a serious fight to the death? Also, we talk about "fatality!" Emma will certainly be killing people will issue 10 is going on... maybe that's who the fatality is. Any superhero that dies, Marvel would call "one of its greatests." I'm sure plenty of posters have already told the Marvel Offices that Emma doesn't fit that bill, so maybe we can breathe a sigh of relief

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Cyke hasn't shown a single hint of insanity/villainy yet. Short of Emma biting it, I just don't see what could trigger a Phoenix-level hissy fit.

[KurtW95]

Cyke hasn't shown a single hint of insanity/villainy yet.

Sorry, but...

Dating Emma + Child soldiers + Attacking Cap + Segregating mutants from humans + Phoenix gower going to his head = Insanity/villain

Trust me, I wish I was wrong. It's like what Bendis did to Wanda.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Sorry, but...

Dating Emma + Child soldiers + Attacking Cap + Segregating mutants from humans + Phoenix gower going to his head = Insanity/villain

Trust me, I wish I was wrong. It's like what Bendis did to Wanda.

Ever since the P5 clusterf***. Should've been clearer.

Namor attacked a country. Emma has tried and succeeded in committing murder. Magik wants Wanda dead. Peter wants to marry Kitty. Cyke told the other P5 to stow the murderous s**t.

One of these is not like the others.

[Goldgeller]

Cyke hasn't shown a single hint of insanity/villainy yet. Short of Emma biting it, I just don't see what could trigger a Phoenix-level hissy fit.

He didn't have to declare war on the Avengers. They could've talked about it. He was perfectly alright with the Avengers being tortured in Limbo (and Strange said that the Limbo prison could be life-threatening). I think it's debateable whether he could've done anything about Namor, but it's kinda embarrassing that Mr PhoenixClops completely missed that Wakanda was getting flooded. "Namor's upset... hope he doesn't do anything rash..." And he left Emma alone in a move that was completely irresponsible on all fronts.

So while he hasn't gone crazy and killed or tortured people, Cyclops is complete jerk. Maybe he should've just listened to Hope and Emma? Water under the bridge. Another girlfriend dead, he's Cyclops, he'll put the mask on again, more resolved than ever to make the exact mistakes. And he'll feel proud too!

I actually think he's going to flip out at Hope and Wanda. I think he'll then get beaten up in Kun-Lun (messing with all the Avengers is a terrible idea) and I think he'll leave Kun Lun and realize what Emma has done and that will lead us to a fight. I think the Avengers will then try and take advantage of the confusion and set up Tony's device. I think an Avenger will die heroiclly, but as collateral damage. Although I can see Emma toasting an Avenger or an X-person hawkeye style saying "stay out of this." But I'd hope Marvel wouldn't be that crass to Emma fans! Although they've been pulling some... mess lately

Sorry, but...

Dating Emma + Child soldiers + Attacking Cap + Segregating mutants from humans + Phoenix gower going to his head = Insanity/villain

Trust me, I wish I was wrong. It's like what Bendis did to Wanda.

Also, I don't think I'd blame Cyclops for any of those things except attacking Cap.

So you are saying that Bendis will do to Cyclops what he did to Wanda? I was actually thinking he'd do to Emma what he did to Wanda. Since Wanda got messed up really fast. "Look at me this whole time I was utterly psychotic!" I felt sorry for Wanda fans (retroactively). I sorta see that happening with Emma and I'm hoping they'll avoid that. I think it's wrong to shutter a character like that. 0-unlikeable in 5 issues! Then death. And then fans can watch Marvel brag about it...