General AVX Speculation/Discussion *Spoilers*

[Harbinger_of_Kaos]

Act 3 Cyclops screws the rest of phoenix force, heals Hawkeye, jumpstarts the mutant gene and finds a way to free the Phoenix. Then he kicks Namor and Emma out of Utopia, finds a way to rule the mutants who want to be ruled by him without Logan's or Avenger interferance.

Well he already healed Clint in Act II, Namor and Emma have screwed him over first by defying his orders, only Hope can restore the mutant gene (though that looks like it ain't happening ever at the rate their going) probably would banish Namor and give Emma a stern talking too, and frankly Storm wouldn't let him lead anyone because she has lost her trust in him.

[Harbinger_of_Kaos]

After seeing some of the previews from the CCI panels, I'm officially convinced that Cyclops won't die in AvX. Namor will be the one whose body outlines that chalk outline. I think that's definitely the most likely because he's the one that led the attack on Wakanda. He's the one that will have to pay the price for it. Usually when a hero commits that kind of crime (the Phoenix's slaughter of the D'brai comes to mind), they end up dead. Plus, it makes perfect sense because Marvel will NEVER break Cyclops and Emma up. They've shown with stories like the Confession that no matter how much tension they pretend to thrust into the relationship, they'll always find a way to have them sucking face at the end. Killing Namor ensures the relationship continues after AvX and that's usually how Marvel does things. Now this is not to say they won't throw in a twist. I could be wrong here, but using Marvel's history and their statements about the Cyclops/Emma relationship as a guide I think there's a 95 percent chance that Namor will be the one to die.

You do raise a valid point with Slim and Queen Bee, their history shows a tendency towards that. And Namor attacking Wakanda could be taken as a callback to when Jean destroyed a star system though on a smaller scale of course.

[Harbinger_of_Kaos]

I had to stop reading there because you've made a mistake.

Storming Utopia because they think Cyclops will not listen to reason.

Much better. Cyclop's called Cap on not coming to talk to him about it in the middle of the assault on Utopia, you can assume that Cyclop's would not have listened but I see no reason they all couldn't have agreed to bring Hope off world so she can attempt to control the PF in a safer enviroment. Maybe they could have let Hope know about that Iron Fist jazz a bit sooner as well.

Cyclops was also working on Cable's say so that the Avengers would be responsable for killing Hope, also he was determined from the get go that the Phoenix was the key to restoring the mutant race....which we now know is only half of the equation since Hope and the Lights are the other. Still Cyclops did not bother to figure this out completly before the event took place, he only had Nathan words to go by and not how it was achieved.

But my point wasn't what went on in the opening bout, my point was that Act I had the Avengers as the bad guys with good intentions and now in Act II the roles are reversed...that was my intention not reopening an old wound.

[Hariel0079]

Cyclops was also working on Cable's say so that the Avengers would be responsable for killing Hope, also he was determined from the get go that the Phoenix was the key to restoring the mutant race....which we now know is only half of the equation since Hope and the Lights are the other. Still Cyclops did not bother to figure this out completly before the event took place, he only had Nathan words to go by and not how it was achieved.

But my point wasn't what went on in the opening bout, my point was that Act I had the Avengers as the bad guys with good intentions and now in Act II the roles are reversed...that was my intention not reopening an old wound.

You might want to throw Wanda into that equation as well, being she de-powered a lot of mutants but also displayed she can re-powered them. Hope and wanda in collaboration will probably do it together on a massive scale. But I'm now leaning to Hope dying after this event.

[DexterSinister]

Cyclops was also working on Cable's say so that the Avengers would be responsable for killing Hope, also he was determined from the get go that the Phoenix was the key to restoring the mutant race....which we now know is only half of the equation since Hope and the Lights are the other. Still Cyclops did not bother to figure this out completly before the event took place, he only had Nathan words to go by and not how it was achieved.

But my point wasn't what went on in the opening bout, my point was that Act I had the Avengers as the bad guys with good intentions and now in Act II the roles are reversed...that was my intention not reopening an old wound.

If you do not wish to have someone debate what you have written then why make a list of comments to list the X-Men in a purely negative light, you say it wasn't your intention to bring back old arguments but it's silly to think that wouldn't have been a consequence when you made that post. I've seen you accuse posters of being bias in favor of the X-Men and that would have been a good time to show that you practise what you preach but you dropped the ball there.

To be fair both the 5 lights and Iron Fist came out of f**king nowhere, from past experience you would assume controlling the phoenix was down to strength of character not rpg side quests. I don't read the Avengers so maybe the have a good reason but why didn't they let the mutants know about the Iron Fist thing before hand, do they even know now?

Problem is there was no time for diplomacy and even if there was, no one was going to budge.

Sure if they had all the time in the world their wouldn't have been a need for the Avengers being there for back up and they could have sent in lawyers and emissaries to has out the details. Unfortunately they did not know how long they had before the Pheonix was going to arrive so they had to the bringing of an attack force just in case the X-Men decided to attack Captain America. This of course is assuming that the Avengers were not ordered by the president to come in with all guns blazing Kill Bin Laden style.

Also, I think it's pretty incredulous that the X-Men did not know the Avengers were there. The X-Men has a ultra advance sensor array that can detect oil rigs that were capable of detecting oil rigs that were in a freaken alternate dimension, Storm was at the Avenger summit where Captain America said "The Pheonix is here, we have to do something about it" not mentioning that freaken Magneto should be able to detect the emf interference cause by a flouting aircraft carrier if he could detect the em pulse of a exploding planet 10 light years away.

Attempts at diplomacy could have been something as simple as a phonecall but it was never attempted because they needed to get this event rolling and as I've stated before it's a major ooc moment for Cap it is still one of the biggest reasons they are fighting each other in the first place.They are trying to make each team look borderline good and a talk would have negatively effected one side if they refused to co-operate or negated the event if they did.

Not sure why your mentioning the hangar it makes the Avengers look a lot worse if the first interaction they have with the X-Men is a show of force.

[DexterSinister]

You might want to throw Wanda into that equation as well, being she de-powered a lot of mutants but also displayed she can re-powered them. Hope and wanda in collaboration will probably do it together on a massive scale. But I'm now leaning to Hope dying after this event.

Wanda repowering mutants isn't a big factor, they need the x-gene re-activated or there less of a species than other people with powers because they will inevitably go extinct without the ability to reproduce children with the x-gene.

[Hariel0079]

Wanda repowering mutants isn't a big factor, they need the x-gene re-activated or there less of a species than other people with powers because they will inevitably go extinct without the ability to reproduce children with the x-gene.

Whaaa? that's that's what re-powering would entail. the whole breeding and reproduce.. I think the appearance of the 5 lights shot that theory down and then some. Mutants not mating and reproducing is not wanda's fault by no manner. Emma and Scott has been together for yrs and yet do not have children amongst themselves or has neither bothered. My point is that Wanda is a factor being her connection and the image that I posted on the last page is starting to prove my point on the concept of Ying and Yang

Wanda is Ying and PF/P5 are Yang

[Harbinger_of_Kaos]

If you do not wish to have someone debate what you have written then why make a list of comments to list the X-Men in a purely negative light, you say it wasn't your intention to bring back old arguments but it's silly to think that wouldn't have been a consequence when you made that post. I've seen you accuse posters of being bias in favor of the X-Men and that would have been a good time to show that you practise what you preach but you dropped the ball there.

To be fair both the 5 lights and Iron Fist came out of f**king nowhere, from past experience you would assume controlling the phoenix was down to strength of character not rpg side quests. I don't read the Avengers so maybe the have a good reason but why didn't they let the mutants know about the Iron Fist thing before hand, do they even know now?

Again the list was made to point out the reversal of roles in Act two, if the X-fan base is offended by this then they will regardless of the first paragraph explicitly saying the Avengers were the bad guys in that that Act. If this insites debates or reopens old wounds then that is by the means of the readers, i am aware that everything i post in placed under scrutiny and few understand the true intent of my words and see only what the wish to see and not what is there.

Also pardon me for being human when i fail to be objective but everyone has slip ups, i could point out the times you have flip flop but that only brings conflict i do not want or need, think what you will of my actions but frankly after so many times i have been slandered i have long since ceased to care of the opinion some have of me. Both here and in real life, i refuse to be chained down by the views others have of me because my opinions differ from theres.

Wanda repowering mutants isn't a big factor, they need the x-gene re-activated or there less of a species than other people with powers because they will inevitably go extinct without the ability to reproduce children with the x-gene.

You might want to throw Wanda into that equation as well, being she de-powered a lot of mutants but also displayed she can re-powered them. Hope and wanda in collaboration will probably do it together on a massive scale. But I'm now leaning to Hope dying after this event.

The whole point of this event was the reactivation of the X-gene, which Wanda could have done this in CC except Cyclops was too pissed despite evidence showing it could be done, Logan was too gung ho for preemtive killing, The family wanted what was best for her, the Avengers wanted to handle it in house and Patriot literally jumped the gun that screwed everything up royally. All Wanda wanted was to undo the damage and accept her punishment and everything went to hell in a hand basket.

I doubt Hope, Cyclops or even Wanda will be marked for death, they have big roles to play in this thing and even after it...my money is on Emma by the way she is being portrayed in this event after the rest of the PF empowered have been taken out.

[xhx23x]

AvX consequences will be written by Gillen so at least there's an actual book to look forward after this mess.

[DexterSinister]

Again the list was made to point out the reversal of roles in Act two, if the X-fan base is offended by this then they will regardless of the first paragraph explicitly saying the Avengers were the bad guys in that that Act. If this insites debates or reopens old wounds then that is by the means of the readers, i am aware that everything i post in placed under scrutiny and few understand the true intent of my words and see only what the wish to see and not what is there.

Also pardon me for being human when i fail to be objective but everyone has slip ups, i could point out the times you have flip flop but that only brings conflict i do not want or need, think what you will of my actions but frankly after so many times i have been slandered i have long since ceased to care of the opinion some have of me. Both here and in real life, i refuse to be chained down by the views others have of me because my opinions differ from theres.

What's this true intent of my words rubbish, I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. You've called posters on being biased then make a list a list that starts off by blaming Summers for the entire mess by assuming he would be unwilling to listen but not listing any of the bad choices the Avengers have made.

I'm certain there trying to portray the core of each group as good and trying to do the right thing so there is nothing wrong with favouring a one group over another.

[Goldgeller]

I doubt Hope, Cyclops or even Wanda will be marked for death, they have big roles to play in this thing and even after it...my money is on Emma by the way she is being portrayed in this event after the rest of the PF empowered have been taken out.

We can take Wanda off the list entirely. She's in Uncanny Avengers. Cyclops and Emma are absolutely in the death pool, is Hope in the death pool? Yeah. She's got her feet in it. We know the last girl from Kun-Lun (or however you spell it) who trained to fight or absorb the Phoenix, didn't make it back. So I see a Hope death as a realistic expectation. Marvel is claiming this event is going to really upset some people. I don't think people will be really upset if Hope dies. They are playing with Emma and Scott I think. I don't really think about Namor but I'll put him in the death pool after the previews for issue 8. Black Panther will figure out a way to put the hurt on Namor. If Namor doesn't die, he at least gets de-powered first.

I think we will all be re-speculating again after we find out what happens when a Phoenix 5 member loses the Phoenix. Does it go to the other members? Or does it go to back into outer-space and begin re-forming as a full Phoenix? Also, on AvX 12 cover that was released in SDCC, it looked as though Hope had some sort of Phoenix power or something. That will be interesting to see.

[Harbinger_of_Kaos]

We can take Wanda off the list entirely. She's in Uncanny Avengers. Cyclops and Emma are absolutely in the death pool, is Hope in the death pool? Yeah. She's got her feet in it. We know the last girl from Kun-Lun (or however you spell it) who trained to fight or absorb the Phoenix, didn't make it back. So I see a Hope death as a realistic expectation. Marvel is claiming this event is going to really upset some people. I don't think people will be really upset if Hope dies. They are playing with Emma and Scott I think. I don't really think about Namor but I'll put him in the death pool after the previews for issue 8. Black Panther will figure out a way to put the hurt on Namor. If Namor doesn't die, he at least gets de-powered first.

I think we will all be re-speculating again after we find out what happens when a Phoenix 5 member loses the Phoenix. Does it go to the other members? Or does it go to back into outer-space and begin re-forming as a full Phoenix? Also, on AvX 12 cover that was released in SDCC, it looked as though Hope had some sort of Phoenix power or something. That will be interesting to see.

Put me down for Magik and Stark in the pool, both have shown some tendencies that may point to a imminent demise.

So you believe this secret weapon Stark developed would be capable of killing a phoenix? If so than who would you bet on pulling the trigger? Panther and Logan are the obvious choices of course but Marvel has shown a tendency to throw logic out the window.

[Harbinger_of_Kaos]

What's this true intent of my words rubbish, I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. You've called posters on being biased then make a list a list that starts off by blaming Summers for the entire mess by assuming he would be unwilling to listen but not listing any of the bad choices the Avengers have made.

I'm certain there trying to portray the core of each group as good and trying to do the right thing so there is nothing wrong with favouring a one group over another.

So me starting things off with the Avengers missguided actions was irrelevant? Or was it my ending the post with X-men's actions what set you off? I think i was pretty objetive when i placed both teams actions on the spot and i only emphazised that in THIS CURRENT ACT things looked bad for the X-men.

In no way i was saying the Avengers are not wrong in what they have done prior to the attack on Wakanda, i am simply pointing out something what some X-fans are seeing done by the writters in Act II.

But if it makes you feel better i shall publicly apoligize for any hurt feelings and hipocritical comments i made if it will get you to lay off and move on... Oh God, i got involved in post fight...

You know what? Forget it, i will not allow this to drag out any further, you go your way and i go mine deal?

[Goldgeller]

Put me down for Magik and Stark in the pool, both have shown some tendencies that may point to a imminent demise.

So you believe this secret weapon Stark developed would be capable of killing a phoenix? If so than who would you bet on pulling the trigger? Panther and Logan are the obvious choices of course but Marvel has shown a tendency to throw logic out the window.

Magik? She's not even on my radar. Partially, because I don't know much about her, and the other part is just that she isn't doing much in the AvX main series. I'm not talking about X-Men Legacy, I'm talking about AvX. Tony, I thought about, but I'm doubting it, I'm pretty sure we already have a Tony-as-IronMan Solicit anyhow right?

As far as the secret weapon Stark and Black Panther are working beating a Phoenix? I don't know about the Phoenix, but I think it will beat a P5 member. Tony mentioned that he had the data he needed, and he's going to work with Black Panther on it, so yes, they will make a hax gun or force-field device of some sort. Who will pull the trigger? Your guess is as good as mine.

My only thing is this-- and someone who knows Dr. Strange well should answer-- why can't or won't strange use more magic? He doesn't have the Eye of Aggammotto, but doesn't he know magic that is like Wanda's? Can he not call on the help of any of the other Vishanti? I'm not suggesting he summon Zom again, but he should be able to do more. I like the idea of the Phoenix having trouble with certain types of magic (I think it's a cool concept) but Strange should be doing a bit more. Strange is one of those people who's either too powerful, or a joke.

[Harbinger_of_Kaos]

Magik? She's not even on my radar. Partially, because I don't know much about her, and the other part is just that she isn't doing much in the AvX main series. I'm not talking about X-Men Legacy, I'm talking about AvX. Tony, I thought about, but I'm doubting it, I'm pretty sure we already have a Tony-as-IronMan Solicit anyhow right?

As far as the secret weapon Stark and Black Panther are working beating a Phoenix? I don't know about the Phoenix, but I think it will beat a P5 member. Tony mentioned that he had the data he needed, and he's going to work with Black Panther on it, so yes, they will make a hax gun or force-field device of some sort. Who will pull the trigger? Your guess is as good as mine.

My only thing is this-- and someone who knows Dr. Strange well should answer-- why can't or won't strange use more magic? He doesn't have the Eye of Aggammotto, but doesn't he know magic that is like Wanda's? Can he not call on the help of any of the other Vishanti? I'm not suggesting he summon Zom again, but he should be able to do more. I like the idea of the Phoenix having trouble with certain types of magic (I think it's a cool concept) but Strange should be doing a bit more. Strange is one of those people who's either too powerful, or a joke.

Maybe it needs to be Chaos Magic? Or maybe it has to be done by a Nexus entity?