Mega Con: Cassandra Cain will be appearing soon

[batGRRRl4ever]

Since the killing occured when she was a child and was more or less forgotten I doubt that'd be the case. And way to come into the thread with another "clever" thinly-veiled shot at the character. Heh.

It wasn't a knock, it's a sincere point:

Black Canary: Framed for murder
Poison Ivy: Guilty of multiple murder
Katana: With her sword has also technically committed multiple murder (self-defense could be argued)
Black Bat: Committed murder as a child, for which she was never incarcerated for
Starling: Indicated she has killed multiple times as a former spy, many would argue on the receiving end it was murder

See, in one way or another all of these characters are, or are perceived to be, killers and murderers. My point was sincere, CC would fit into the dynamic of this comic along with each of the other characters. The one who currently to this point is NOT fitting is the current Batgirl who has never killed and has a STRONG directive both personal as well as by following Batman to NEVER EVER kill, and I'm one of her biggest fans and even I'm saying she isn't a great fit so far with the current BOP line-up and direction. The current Batgirl is the odd character out in this current line-up.

[MorphyVSFischer]

Could we not do this? Could we not?

Pfft obviously we cannot. Its illegal to like all the Batgirls or even to like only one and leave the others alone, you must pick one and fight for her to the death. I think it might be in the rules somewhere.

[CagedLeo730]

Assuming Mr. Snyder remains correct and Batman, Inc. is the title where Cass has her appearance, does anyone know if Inc. is in the New 52 continuity? In other words, are characters in that book part of the new canon?

Batman Inc will be a part of the new52. Burnham has mentioned that it'll be seamlessly folded into the new universe. About 95% of the previous events still happened exactly as is.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Assuming Mr. Snyder remains correct and Batman, Inc. is the title where Cass has her appearance, does anyone know if Inc. is in the New 52 continuity? In other words, are characters in that book part of the new canon?

Batman Inc will be a part of the new52. Burnham has mentioned that it'll be seamlessly folded into the new universe. About 95% of the previous events still happened exactly as is.

As CagedLeo explains, yes, the new volume of Batman, Incorporated is in the New 52 continuity and part of the current canon. Chris Burnham and Mike Marts have said as much directly on multiple occasions, and the first issue was solicited as a part of the New 52.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

And from the rules:

4. Stay on-topic. There is a bit of leeway with this one, but quite frankly, it's at the mods' discretion. Batgirl appearing in Red Robin doesn't mean that issue's thread can dissolve into an overreaching discussion of how Batgirl has been treated over the years. A thread criticizing the "Batman Inc" direction of the books is not an invitation to air every grievance you've had with Morrison since 2006.

5. Discuss the topic, not each other. You can criticize stories, you can pick apart arguments; what you cannot do is make the discussion about your fellow posters. If you dislike another poster, you're free not to respond to them. If they're being a pest, you're free to report them. But these threads are not for personal discussions. And to you rules-lawyers, that still applies even if you technically manage to avoid breaking Rule #1.

Drop the discussion of each other/groups of fans. Discuss the books/news, not other posters.

And, this thread about Cassandra Cain having an upcoming appearance is not about how she has been treated over the years or make this into a "Cass vs. Babs" or "Cass fans vs. Babs fans" thread.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I reiterate my point in terms of potential appearances if not in Inc. then I vote for Black Bat to replace Batgirl in Birds Of Prey, there's just better synchronicity there IMO.

[Blight]

Like many stated I'm so tired of the same old answer being said. Yes, we've seen appearances in a lot of years but then poof she's back into limbo after you're used to the character appearing for a lengthy period.

[CMBMOOL]

Like many stated I'm so tired of the same old answer being said. Yes, we've seen appearances in a lot of years but then poof she's back into limbo after you're used to the character appearing for a lengthy period.

Yeah, what the point of bring back a character if you're just going to bring the character back into limbo when you're done ?

Either have a LONG TERM PLAN for said character or don't even use them at all.

[Mr. Holmes]

I almost cringed at the part about Barry being the first with speed powers, and Wally being derivative of Barry.

Guys, it's honestly okay to just say, "The people in our highest executive and editorial positions like the Silver Age characters most, we think they're the most marketable, and we didn't want to confuse the new readers we were hoping this would attract. That's it." It's the truth and it's understandable. Just don't say stuff like "the first" and "derivative," or I'm going to start wondering where my Jay Garrick and Alan Scott solo titles are.

-D

No, they have a fair point. I grew up reading comics in the 90s, and the logic is sound. You can't tell Wally West's story without Barry's. On the other hand, you can tell Barry Allen's story without Jay Garrick. Not to mention, Barry is the reason that the Flash became a huge pillar in the DCU, not Jay. They want to market the DCU with single, identifiable heroes, and without the baggage of legacy heroes.

[CagedLeo730]

Yeah, what the point of bring back a character if you're just going to bring the character back into limbo when you're done ?

Either have a LONG TERM PLAN for said character or don't even use them at all.

You can't please everybody. Who says that without the reboot Cassandra would have made more appearance as Blackbat? Everyone has a favorite character but their character can't always have an ongoing series, a mini, or be part of a book's ensemble cast. There's always more room in limbo as you create more new characters.

[darthnat]

Hmm, where have I heard that there are big plans for Cassandra Cain before...

Oh yeah, it was every time someone mentioned the character for the past five years.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

The report from Mega Con this thread is about makes no such claim or promise of "big plans."

I am a big Cassandra Cain fan, I like the character a great deal, but they're not saying they've got a huge story, or a starring role in an ongoing, they're only saying she's got an upcoming appearance.

[The Lucky One]

And what is it with the regular suggestions to shoe-horn CC or Stephanie into books starring Babs? I have nothing against the characters, seriously, but conversely I have said multiple times the characters should stand or fall on their own and stop looking like they are trying to prop themselves up on Bab's popularity, time and again. By being in a title where they can attempt to shine as either Black Bat or Spoiler, in the long run it will let them gain more popularity on their own merits w/out the old foggey readers like myself crying foul whenever they're shoe-horned into a book with Bab's.

You know, I don't even 100% disagree with that; but at the same time, I hope while you were typing it, you were thinking about how Barbara debuted in a Batman story in Detective Comics and spent years surviving in guest spots and back-up stories in other characters' titles- 'Tec, Batman, World's Finest, Justice League, etc. You know, being shoehorned into their books. To say nothing of the fact that back then -- with Bat-Girl gone and Batwoman largely phased out -- there were far fewer Bat-characters competing for attention, and no female ones, so Barbara was the only game in town.

It's all well and good to say that characters should have to stand or fall on their own, without the benefit of guest spots and being shoehorned into other titles. Just remember that your favorite character never had to.

-D

[The Lucky One]

No, they have a fair point. I grew up reading comics in the 90s, and the logic is sound. You can't tell Wally West's story without Barry's. On the other hand, you can tell Barry Allen's story without Jay Garrick. Not to mention, Barry is the reason that the Flash became a huge pillar in the DCU, not Jay. They want to market the DCU with single, identifiable heroes, and without the baggage of legacy heroes.

Technically, that's not true -- Barry was inspired by the comics he read about Jay as a kid, so you can't tell his story without Jay. I understand your meaning, though, and you're right that Wally depends on Barry's existence far more than Barry depends on Jay's. (Of course, Bart also depends on Wally's existence a fair amount, but to a lesser extent.) The point about single, identifiable heroes is correct, and what I've been saying all along.

However, it's not correct to say that Barry is the reason the Flash became a huge pillar in the DCU. In the Golden Age, the Flash was DC's third-most popular character before the debut of Wonder Woman, and fourth afterward. He headlined an anthology title (Flash Comics) AND his own solo title (All-Flash), being one of only 5 DC characters to do that (the others being Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern). Plus he shared another anthology, Comics Cavalcade, with Wonder Woman and Green Lantern. And he was with the JSA. For a few years in the '40s, you could go to a newsstand and pick up 4 different comics featuring the Flash: Flash Comics, All-Flash, Comics Cavalcade, and All-Star Comics. That's a pillar in my book.

-D

[Mr. Holmes]

o

However, it's not correct to say that Barry is the reason the Flash became a huge pillar in the DCU. In the Golden Age, the Flash was DC's third-most popular character before the debut of Wonder Woman, and fourth afterward. He headlined an anthology title (Flash Comics) AND his own solo title (All-Flash), being one of only 5 DC characters to do that (the others being Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern). Plus he shared another anthology, Comics Cavalcade, with Wonder Woman and Green Lantern. And he was with the JSA. For a few years in the '40s, you could go to a newsstand and pick up 4 different comics featuring the Flash: Flash Comics, All-Flash, Comics Cavalcade, and All-Star Comics. That's a pillar in my book.

I don't deny that Jay Garrick was a successful character for some time. However, he ultimately faded into obscurity. The only reason he even became relevant again is because of the success of Barry Allen. In fact, I would even argue that Barry soley ushered in the Silver Age of comics. The costume most people recognize to be the Flash is Barry's costume, not Jay's.