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  1. #256
    Member Nico Olvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nervmeister View Post
    Death is rarely fair.........
    In real life sure enough, but that's one big luxury you have when writing fictions, death can be meaningful. Should be i would be tempted to say.

    If you kill one of character you must have a reason for it, a point to make or something to bring to your other characters still alive.

    The last Potter book is kinda full of that, quick cheap deaths. I guess the author try to depict how randomly cruel an armed conflict is but in the end the whole thing is a bit awkward and honestly not really effective.

    You're shocked alright. But more because of how cheaply the author treated this or this character and not that much by the impact of the death.

  2. #257
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Morituri was awesome until they changed writers and artists, at which point it felt like the writers had read nothing more than a vague synopsis of the series and characters before starting their work.

    Also, the new art was painful.

    I try to pretend the series ended when Blackthorn died.
    Hey! Someone else knows that series existed! Hooray!

    Yes, I agree with you. The first twenty issues were fantastic. Then the new team took over and it just... ugh.

    Art was pretty bad. I thought it a little cheap how they made sure to kill off all the previous characters, but their own new characters were the ones who got to receive the cure and live a full life. And the way the story suddenly shifted gears with the new alien threat and the government conspiracy... *sigh*

    Now, to their credit, I will give them this, they actually did flesh out the Third Generation better than the original team did. Probably because the original team just didn't have time to go into them, the new group at least gave each of them a back story and character motivation and even a little development. Of course, you quickly realized that any time they did that, that meant that was the issue that character was gunna die.

    The Electric Undertow mini-series was better, in that it featured one of my favorite artists of all time (Mark Bagley) and it was interesting seeing how the world had changed since the defeat of the Horde, but overall the story was still kinda lame, very "sci-fi for the sake of sci-fi" rather than all that dramatic.
    It's a lie! My pants were off the entire time!

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  3. #258
    Anti-Matter Eyes Eternal Torment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    Well, death fatigue, it isn't always murder.

    One of my favorite comic book series of all time is Strikeforce: Morituri, the entire premise of which is that the heroes will die within a year in exchange for their powers. However, that series managed to not hit fatigue levels due to its brevity, and the way they managed to handle the deaths with purpose. At least until the second writer/artist group, where the deaths were more random, but they at least did their best to flesh out the previously underdeveloped Third Gen before giving them the send off.
    Well, true. But that's just it, you can't have high death counts in a long running series if you want to avoid death fatigue.

    The readers can only root for so many people before they decide that they don't want to see another favourite die.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Spirit View Post
    Hmm. I thought he had a pretty good run..... what makes you pick him?


    Just curious.
    Orochimaru gets punked in nearly every single post time-skip battle he's had. even in the flash-backs! he became the Naruto villain equivalent of Yamcha or Worf.

  5. #260
    Senior Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    or Worf.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edflm7Hh3hs

  6. #261
    Blind Resolve Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    Orochimaru gets punked in nearly every single post time-skip battle he's had. even in the flash-backs! he became the Naruto villain equivalent of Yamcha or Worf.
    Wait, how old was the post you just replied?

    Because seriously, you know it is fairly irrelevant right now.

  7. #262
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Hahaha, wow. Poor guy has the patience of a saint
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  8. #263

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    Jackal from Illusion of Gaia, he is hyped for most of the game, the other characters are scared of him, but when he meets Will the Jackal turns out to be a pathetic vampire who can't even fight. Unlike Jackal the other vampires are competent, can fight and aren't hyped as much. Jackal could have been a least a boss like the other vampires who appear in the game.

    Poor Android 16, he was't evil but he didn't get a chance to resurrect while the other two amoral androids got resurrected.
    King Vegeta had redeeming qualities but he wasn't resurrected when Frieza's victims resurrected; King Vegeta was much more heroic than Prince Vegeta ever was, King Vegeta saved the saiyans from the tuffles, King Vegeta also did a heroic sacrifice when he fought Frieza to save the saiyans; however King Vegeta wasn't resurrected when Frieza's victims resurrected, but when Frieza's victims were resurrected the (at the time) evil Prince Vegeta resurrected without earning it in spite of the fact that Prince Vegeta not only was evil but he also had zero redeeming qualities before the events of the Cell Games Saga. In Dragon Ball Z for a character to go to heaven and retain the physical body he had in life he has to be heroic and do a heroic sacrifice, King Vegeta not only did the heroic sacrifice but he also saved the saiyans from slavery, meaning that King Vegeta not only earned both entrance to heaven and the right to retain the physical body he had in life but he also wasn't as evil as Prince Vegeta was, thus King Vegeta meet the requisites needed to resurrect when Frieza's victims resurrected; when Frieza's victims resurrected not only the evil Prince Vegeta resurrected but he also retained his physical body during the Buu Saga; Prince Vegeta got those privileges without earning them, King Vegeta earned those privileges but he didn't get them.
    What I said above about King Vegeta and the tuffles may not be part of the Kai's continuity nor be part of the manga's continuity but it was part of the Dragon Ball Z anime's continuity.
    Last edited by Vinegar Mk-II; 12-23-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #264
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinegar Mk-II View Post
    King Vegeta had redeeming qualities but he wasn't resurrected when Frieza's victims resurrected; King Vegeta was much more heroic than Prince Vegeta ever was, King Vegeta saved the saiyans from the tuffles, King Vegeta also did a heroic sacrifice when he fought Frieza to save the saiyans; however King Vegeta wasn't resurrected when Frieza's victims resurrected, but when Frieza's victims were resurrected the (at the time) evil Prince Vegeta resurrected without earning it in spite of the fact that Prince Vegeta not only was evil but he also had zero redeeming qualities before the events of the Cell Games Saga. In Dragon Ball Z for a character to go to heaven and retain the physical body he had in life he has to be heroic and do a heroic sacrifice, King Vegeta not only did the heroic sacrifice but he also saved the saiyans from slavery, meaning that King Vegeta not only earned both entrance to heaven and the right to retain the physical body he had in life but he also wasn't as evil as Prince Vegeta was, thus King Vegeta meet the requisites needed to resurrect when Frieza's victims resurrected; when Frieza's victims resurrected not only the evil Prince Vegeta resurrected but he also retained his physical body during the Buu Saga; Prince Vegeta got those privileges without earning them, King Vegeta earned those privileges but he didn't get them.
    Since when were you under the impression that Prince Vegeta and King Vegeta were two people?
    Soap Operus

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  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    Wait, how old was the post you just replied?

    Because seriously, you know it is fairly irrelevant right now.
    because I consider the shameful treatment Orochimaru got in post-time skip to be worth mentioning again. is there a statute of limitations on this sort of thing?

    Riful, in Claymore, like so many other characters-- died a fairly shameful death to build up Priscilla as the ultimate villain in the piece. perhaps what made it so shameful is becase Priscilla wanders around half-asleep, looking bored as she proceeds to kill the only interesting villains in the manga that survived up to that point.

  11. #266
    Blind Resolve Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    because I consider the shameful treatment Orochimaru got in post-time skip to be worth mentioning again. is there a statute of limitations on this sort of thing?
    Kinda. Yeah. It seems kinda odd is all. Especially since I'm sure you follow the manga so you know how much they hyped him up then after and brought him back.

  12. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinegar Mk-II View Post
    Poor Android 16, he was't evil but he didn't get a chance to resurrect while the other two amoral androids got resurrected.
    King Vegeta had redeeming qualities but he wasn't resurrected when Frieza's victims resurrected; King Vegeta was much more heroic than Prince Vegeta ever was, King Vegeta saved the saiyans from the tuffles, King Vegeta also did a heroic sacrifice when he fought Frieza to save the saiyans; however King Vegeta wasn't resurrected when Frieza's victims resurrected, but when Frieza's victims were resurrected the (at the time) evil Prince Vegeta resurrected without earning it in spite of the fact that Prince Vegeta not only was evil but he also had zero redeeming qualities before the events of the Cell Games Saga. In Dragon Ball Z for a character to go to heaven and retain the physical body he had in life he has to be heroic and do a heroic sacrifice, King Vegeta not only did the heroic sacrifice but he also saved the saiyans from slavery, meaning that King Vegeta not only earned both entrance to heaven and the right to retain the physical body he had in life but he also wasn't as evil as Prince Vegeta was, thus King Vegeta meet the requisites needed to resurrect when Frieza's victims resurrected; when Frieza's victims resurrected not only the evil Prince Vegeta resurrected but he also retained his physical body during the Buu Saga; Prince Vegeta got those privileges without earning them, King Vegeta earned those privileges but he didn't get them.
    Well I can't say anything about the Hatchiyak/GT story, but the Tuffles/Tsufurujin never existed in the manga and, IIRC, at the time of Vegeta's first resurrection his father's only known factor was that he was killed by Frieza and that he was weaker than Vegeta was as an 8 year old. And that he was the king of an entire planet of genocidal blood knights who worked for someone much worse (Frieza).

    Also, for someone in DBZ to retain their body, a god has to specifically embody them with it for whatever reason they want (though Goku eventually seems to be able to do it by himself, but he's a genius at learning techniques and spent about a decade living with and training under two different gods, so meh). To go to heaven, they actually have to be good people (possibly super-good, since Goku being able to go straight to the highest heavens was considered notable by Enma-daiou/King Yama). Besides, in the manga at least his soul was probably already erased of memories and reincarnated at this point (which is what happens to evil people in the manga). Either that, or he and the rest of the saiyajin were resurrected in the void of space because wishing planets back is a separate wish (IIRC, Porunga tossed in teleporting Kuririn's soul to Earth as a freebee when he resurrected him because he was a nice guy, and that's not something they'd do for an entire planet of psychopaths, even if Kuririn could probably solo them unless Vegeta took their side). Its commonly held that the dragonballs can only resurrect people who have been dead for a year at most, though I can't remember where they actually said that in the manga or the anime.
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  13. #268
    Senior Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    because I consider the shameful treatment Orochimaru got in post-time skip to be worth mentioning again. is there a statute of limitations on this sort of thing?

    Riful, in Claymore, like so many other characters-- died a fairly shameful death to build up Priscilla as the ultimate villain in the piece. perhaps what made it so shameful is becase Priscilla wanders around half-asleep, looking bored as she proceeds to kill the only interesting villains in the manga that survived up to that point.
    Isn't Riful back again though?

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Isn't Riful back again though?
    apparently it's a zombie-like creature that only looks like her-- so the evil sadistic game-playing little girl that keeps her promises is probably gone. (aka, her personality).

    Claymore has a record of killing off interesting villains with personality in favor of bland malevolent forces beyond comprehension.

    (Riful and Isley should have been kept around a LOT longer)

  15. #270
    Senior Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    apparently it's a zombie-like creature that only looks like her-- so the evil sadistic game-playing little girl that keeps her promises is probably gone. (aka, her personality).

    Claymore has a record of killing off interesting villains with personality in favor of bland malevolent forces beyond comprehension.

    (Riful and Isley should have been kept around a LOT longer)
    Yes. I LOVED Riful. It's a shame she had to job to Alicia (the current no.1) who, in turn, was curbstomped by Priscilla, who is probably one of the most uninteresting characters in the series. Cheap god-modder..

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