CBR: Alan Moore Elaborates on "Before Watchmen"

[Darrell D.]

I guess I should revise my comment and say SOME mainstream comics have literary merit..Watchmen is the obvious example, and then Dark Knight Returns.
The problem is that they are fully owned corporate IPs.
So, what happened, when DC saw their success? They wanted more.
Problem is, they didn't understand the books. They understood the dollar signs. And the creators they hired to mimic the success did what they could.
It's like a film student seeing The Godfather and then going out and making lots of movies about guys getting gunned down at toll booths.
As much as DC likes to point to Watchmen and say, 'Look! Super-hero stories can be important!' the moment they could they added it to their IP farm, and then tossed it in the pile with the other concepts they have milked for decades.
Then you have the fans, who care about these goddamned characters MORE than the people who actually write and draw the damned things.
The moment there is a creator that has a beef with the corporation, the mouthbreathers begin to lumber towards their keyboards, and take the corporation's side, because, shit, getting the newest issue of Facepunch-man is more important than stupid things like creator's rights.
So, when you see an article about a creator that has fallen on bad times, or ill, the creators have to pass the hat around to help him out. Sure, he created some great IP for the company, and they have reaped a great amount from his creations, but what has he done for them lately?
DC publishing Before Watchmen was merely a statement from the company; this is an corporate IP, nothing more, nothing less.

[Omega Key]

Now was that so hard? :)

I would point out the Gail Simone thing from not so long ago as an example that fans do not automatically side with the publisher at all. This thread has many people explaining why they don't agree and/or side with Alan Moore and making a good case for their opinion, it's far from the "I loves me some Facepunchman, Alan Moore bad" mindset.

[Bruce Kent]

So, after calling idiot to anyone that contradicted you, you actually went back and saw that you were wrong. That's a step up for you. Maybe one day you'll do it before insulting everyone. Hopefully kingmob will also learn that.

Also, I loved that the guy that said more than once that people saying "pretentious" should check the dictionary actually was wrong about the definition of the word. Obviously I'm not expecting an apology or any kind of admission, but it made me smile.

Thanks, OmegaKey, for answering to this charming guys for me :)

[Darrell D.]

I merely clarified my position..in that there are a very few mainstream super-hero books from the big Two that could be considered anything other than disposable pop culture.
And than was for the benefit of the few posters in this thread whose opinions I actually value.

[Bruce Kent]

I merely clarified my position..in that there are a very few mainstream super-hero books from the big Two that could be considered anything other than disposable pop culture.
And than was for the benefit of the few posters in this thread whose opinions I actually value.

No, you didn't clarify anything. You contradicted what you said earlier. But I'm not going to waste my time talking with you, since I've seen your reaction when you're proven wrong.

[Darrell D.]

G-golly! How will I ever sleep at night, knowing that you have a problem with my clarifying a statement later?
If I admit I was wrong in saying ALL super-hero stories from the big two are pop culture trash (which I clearly was), maybe we can be palsie walsies?

[Bruce Kent]

G-golly! How will I ever sleep at night, knowing that you have a problem with my clarifying a statement later?

So ridiculously childish. I honestly believe that you think you're funny. The funny part is that you're not xD

If I admit I was wrong in saying ALL super-hero stories from the big two are pop culture trash (which I clearly was), maybe we can be palsie walsies?

You already did. But then you said you didn't admit to be wrong. You're contradicting yourself so quickly you might just want to stop talking.
It's over. You were wrong. You already admited. Take it as a grown man and move on.

[jesse_custer]

1. making claim to distinction or importance, esp undeservedly
Which is exactly what he's doing by claiming all superhero work can never attain the quality of non-superhero work. Here's a link as it appears I'm not the one who needs a dictionary: LINK

Now you need a reading lesson so you can understand what a dictionary says. He wasn't making claim to distinction or importance; if anything, he was doing the opposite.

Nevermind that it was his honest opinion about books. Isn't honesty an antonym of pretension? (Look up antonym now.)

If he had acted like he was better than you because he doesn't read or like superhero books, you could have correctly called him pretentious.

[jesse_custer]

Take it as a grown man and move on.

Perhaps you could do the same, rather than beat a dead horse.

[Tobias March]

It's like a film student seeing The Godfather and then going out and making lots of movies about guys getting gunned down at toll booths.

I like that. Bit like how post-Pulp Fiction there was a host of Tarantino-imitators who simply didn't have the same degree of pop-culture savvy, but were able to ape the violence and bloodshed.

[Bruce Kent]

Now you need a reading lesson so you can understand what a dictionary says. He wasn't making claim to distinction or importance; if anything, he was doing the opposite.

Nevermind that it was his honest opinion about books. Isn't honesty an antonym of pretension? (Look up antonym now.)

Try to actually read and understand things before posting.

Perhaps you could do the same, rather than beat a dead horse.

I'm answering to an insult.

[jesse_custer]

Try to actually read and understand things before posting.

Originally, he said he liked superhero books but didn't think they were high art. So what? It's not pretentious, and it's not anything to be overly concerned about.

I'm answering to an insult.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Just like it's true that some mean people don't hold superhero stories in high regard like you do - Ouch! Better call mom!

[Bruce Kent]

Originally, he said he liked superhero books but didn't think they were high art. So what? It's not pretentious, and it's not anything to be overly concerned about.

It is pretentious to say that something can't be high quality because of a certain characteristic.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Just like it's true that some mean people don't hold superhero stories in high regard like you do - Ouch! Better call mom!

Being called an idiot is an insult. But great to know you're as much of a baby as he is.
I don't hold superhero stories in high regard, I just think it's pretentious to say they can't be "high art" simply because they are superhero stories.
You seem lack basic reading skills. You've been pointing people to a dictionary to check a definition you don't seem to understand.

[jesse_custer]

It is pretentious to say that something can't be high quality because of a certain characteristic.

No, it is not. It is simply an honest opinion about art, which is a fairly subjective field when you get down to it. You might say his honest opinion is misguided, insulting, or whatever, but calling it pretentious is a display of illiteracy. As I elaborated, if he had behaved as if he were the bees knees or more mature for not reading superhero stories, then you could rightly call him pretentious.

Being called an idiot is an insult. But great to know you're as much of a baby as he is.
I don't hold superhero stories in high regard, I just think it's pretentious to say they can't be "high art" simply because they are superhero stories.
You seem lack basic reading skills. You've been pointing people to a dictionary to check a definition you don't seem to understand.

Your obsession with the word pretentious is a problem. Find more accurate words to describe your case; otherwise, the only people who will take you seriously will be those who are as offended as you are.

Being called an idiot is not what I'm talking about here, and you know it.

[Bruce Kent]

No, it is not. It is simply an honest opinion about art, which is a fairly subjective field when you get down to it. You might say his honest opinion is misguided, insulting, or whatever, but calling it pretentious is a display of illiteracy. As I elaborated, if he had behaved as if he were the bees knees or more mature for not reading superhero stories, then you could rightly call him pretentious.

No, it's not. Saying something isn't capable of reaching a certain level due to a characteristic is pretentious. So much that the man himself admited he was wrong.

Your obsession with the word pretentious is a problem. Find more accurate words to describe your case; otherwise, the only people who will take you seriously will be those who are as offended as you are.

No. Sorry, but the fact that you don't understand the meaning of a word is not an argument. If you want to pretende you didn't make a fool of yourself while insisting on something that you didn't knew, go ahead. But I'll just ignore you.

Being called an idiot is not what I'm talking about here, and you know it.

Of course it's not. You were caught saying something that was wrong and your ego doesn't allow you to admit that. So you keep this silly discussion going without having a real argument. Because, for some reason, admiting you were wrong in an online forum hurts for you.