Marvel Omnibus/Oversized Hardcover Discussion Part IV

[regomar]

On topic of JRJR cover for FA. I don't get it. Its a terrible cover. I can only assume that his art is still a bigger book mover. I don't understand why but people love his work.

I find ALL of his art from... say 91 to present to just be terrible and gets worse and worse every year. It honestly makes me sick to see people talking about his 'amazing work' on AvX when it looks like doodles on a high school kid's notebook. I mean, it's just gawd awful TERRIBLE. I wish he'd just retire already. it was bad enough that he ruined World War Hulk (which was especailly bad for me since I had just gotten done with Planet Hulk which has amazing artwork), but now he's ruining AvX too...

[merrick97]

- Bru Cap 1 and 2: Waste of space, paper and money to put #25 in both of them (especially concerning Vol. 2, which had an extraordinarily low page count anyway). Who'd buy Vol. 2 "The Death of Cap" without getting Vol. 1 first, which gives us the background for his death?

They would have been better served combining Vol. 2 and Vol 3 into one omnibus. That would have been so much better. DoCA just has too little content for its price, although its hardly the worst offender.

[bit18986244]

I'd probably want to keep the Fall of the Mutants OHC if it weren't for all the crazy errors inside the book - random ñ's instead of "-"'s, etc.
Necrosha's ordering annoyed me to no end. I actually didn't pick up the X-Force OHC because I didn't want the awful Necrosha OHC filling in the gaps between the two.

I'm holding off on the Fatal Attractions omnibus; I'm probably binding PAD's X-Factor, and I don't want the double dip from X-Cutioner's Song and Fatal Attractions' issues... I wish there was some guarantee those first uncollected 13 issues would get an OHC, but considering how ignored modern PAD X-Factor is (and the unrecognized demand for PAD Hulk OHCs), I'm not so sure they won't be abandoned entirely.

I also wish UXM 319 was included in the AoA omni; it was in the prelude tpb, but it'll remain a "lost" issue if Phalanx Covenant is ever made OHC (along with first 25 issues of Gen X?)

Anyways, I'm interested in Man-Thing; would anyone be able to sell me on it, or how it's not an inferior Swamp Thing?

[studioremark]

I find ALL of his art from... say 91 to present to just be terrible and gets worse and worse every year. It honestly makes me sick to see people talking about his 'amazing work' on AvX when it looks like doodles on a high school kid's notebook. I mean, it's just gawd awful TERRIBLE. I wish he'd just retire already. it was bad enough that he ruined World War Hulk (which was especailly bad for me since I had just gotten done with Planet Hulk which has amazing artwork), but now he's ruining AvX too...

What exactly went on with JRJR changing his style so much between the early 1980s and early 1990s? I've been reading some of his early "Iron Man" work with Bob Layton and I really like it... it was clean and very traditional, but with some nice surprises at times. His stuff in the new Roger Stern collection from "Amazing Spider-Man" also looks similarly good. In re-reading Mutant Massacre in the OHC though, I noticed that his art even then wasn't as solid as I'd remembered it. By the time he hit the early 1990s, it was like he was a completely different guy and I've never been interested in the 'dirty' (too many lines?) look to his work in the past few years.

[regomar]

What exactly went on with JRJR changing his style so much between the early 1980s and early 1990s? I've been reading some of his early "Iron Man" work with Bob Layton and I really like it... it was clean and very traditional, but with some nice surprises at times. His stuff in the new Roger Stern collection from "Amazing Spider-Man" also looks similarly good. In re-reading Mutant Massacre in the OHC though, I noticed that his art even then wasn't as solid as I'd remembered it. By the time he hit the early 1990s, it was like he was a completely different guy and I've never been interested in the 'dirty' (too many lines?) look to his work in the past few years.

These days every face he draws has inexplicable lines down the cheeks (I call them 'JRJR's whiskers') faces all look the same, bodies are blocky and pose weirdly and off-kilter... look at Iron Man's face in AvX when he's addressing the government, he looks like he's crosseyed and taking a dump at the same time. The fact that people consider this garbage brilliant makes me want to throttle people.

[DrGregatron]

These days every face he draws has inexplicable lines down the cheeks (I call them 'JRJR's whiskers') faces all look the same, bodies are blocky and pose weirdly and off-kilter... look at Iron Man's face in AvX when he's addressing the government, he looks like he's crosseyed and taking a dump at the same time. The fact that people consider this garbage brilliant makes me want to throttle people.

What exactly went on with JRJR changing his style so much between the early 1980s and early 1990s? I've been reading some of his early "Iron Man" work with Bob Layton and I really like it... it was clean and very traditional, but with some nice surprises at times. His stuff in the new Roger Stern collection from "Amazing Spider-Man" also looks similarly good. In re-reading Mutant Massacre in the OHC though, I noticed that his art even then wasn't as solid as I'd remembered it. By the time he hit the early 1990s, it was like he was a completely different guy and I've never been interested in the 'dirty' (too many lines?) look to his work in the past few years.

I know that stroke and/or blunt force trauma to the head can cause a person to change dramatically in their personality or abilities. That might explain it. Regomar's right, his modern work looks like a school kid's doodles. I have a copy of his Marvel Visionaries and he used to do "clean and very traditional work". His early work was excellent. But his work isn't the only modern work that's terrible, though. A lot of Marvel titles have strayed from traditional superhero art, I don't know if its because modern artists are hurried to produce more in order to make a living or what? I bought the John Romita Spider-Man Artist Edition from IDW because I thought the art in that size and format looked amazing, but I'd never buy a JRJR Artist Edition of anything I've seen him draw from the last 25 years.

[kodave]

Not only is Ennis' run the most famous, its also the predecessor to Aaron's run. If they omni'd Ennis' MAX run and Aaron's run it would, combined with the first Ennis omni, form a complete four volume series much the same way Bendis and Brubaker's DD formed a four volume run. And they didn't release Brubaker's run until Bendis' was over.

Mapping the Ennis books is easy. A 60 issue series means two 30 issue omnis, plus the Born mini and the three one-shots. I'd put those in order of release: Born at the beginning of Volume 1, The End in between issues 6 and 7, The Cell in between 18 and 19 and The Tyger at the beginning of Volume 2. The result would be 880 pages for Volume 1 and 739 pages for Volume 2, plus extras.

It doesn't make much sense to me to release Aaron's run before Ennis'. Aaron's run is newer, the HCs and trades still have life in them whereas the Ennis trades have been around forever and half of the HCs are OOP. And as I said before, Aaron's run is a sequel to Ennis'. Ennis' run is more famous, it has proven value, it continues from a previous omni and would lead into the next and Ennis himself is a big name. Why would Aaron's run be released first?

All that being said, if Aaron's run was solicited I wouldn't exactly be upset. I want both of these runs in omnis, it doesn't really matter to me which one gets omni'd first.

I haven't read Aaron's run but I thought the understanding was that Ennis' "The Punisher (MAX)" isn't the same as Aaron's "PunisherMAX" - not only in title, but continuity since each MAX title can be their own world. If so, envisioning it as a 4 volume MAX line doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think we'll see PunisherMAX in Omnibus form this year, but I'd wager 2013 would be a fair bet. And I think people will have to keep holding their breath on that "Punisher Max" by Ennis multi-volume Omnibus set.

[CrazyOldHermit]

I haven't read Aaron's run but I thought the understanding was that Ennis' "The Punisher (MAX)" isn't the same as Aaron's "PunisherMAX" - not only in title, but continuity since each MAX title can be their own world. If so, envisioning it as a 4 volume MAX line doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think we'll see PunisherMAX in Omnibus form this year, but I'd wager 2013 would be a fair bet. And I think people will have to keep holding their breath on that "Punisher Max" by Ennis multi-volume Omnibus set.

Frank in PunisherMAX is the same Frank in Ennis' run. There are strong allusions to Born, several characters from Ennis' run are namedropped and Ennis' version of Fury shows up. Most importantly though is the character himself. He is Ennis' vision of the character which dates back to Welcome Back Frank and the run is basically taking that stone hearted and emotionally dead version of the character and putting him through real hell. A doctor tells him that hes getting too old to do what he does and that his injuries are starting to catch up to him. He realizes that he can no longer remember his wife's voice and that he'd forgotten his son's birthday. We see him start to realize that the mission hes devoted his life too has destroyed him. All of this works much, much better when seen as a sequel to Ennis' run. If its standalone it loses the impact of seeing the character get broken down like that. Also, you have to keep in mind that while MAX references the Marvel Knights stuff they're still technically in different continuities. MAX isn't in 616 while MK was. So even if Aaron's run is technically in a different continuity (and it could be, as there are a few small changes like Frank's birth year) it still builds on the themes and characters of the previous run.

[Awesome!]

I have now purchased the 3 BKV Runaways OHCs. Cue omni announcement in 3, 2...

[Omnibus]

I have now purchased the 3 BKV Runaways OHCs. Cue omni announcement in 3, 2...

Please purchase Avengers Assemble OHC's 1 to 5

[Omnibus]

From KingOtterpop on MMW board

MAN-THING OMNIBUS HC

(W/A) Various (CA) Ariel Olivetti
Neither wholly plant nor animal, neither entirely self-aware nor totally non-sentient, the creature called the Man-Thing is unique, unchanging and alone - but none who encounter him can ever be the same again. Empathic by nature and drawn to fight evil, his shambling visage inspires fear - and whatever knows fear burns at the Man-Thing's touch. Whether danger rises from the swamp or the city, the past or the future, outer space or the human soul, the Man-Thing awaits! Collecting ASTONISHING TALES (1970) #12-13; FEAR #11-18, and material from #10 and #19; MAN-THING (1974) #1-22, GIANT-SIZE MAN-THING #1-3 and material from #4-5, INCREDIBLE HULK (1968) #197-198; MARVEL TEAM-UP (1972) #68; MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE #43; MAN-THING (1979) #1-11; DR. STRANGE (1974) #41; and material from SAVAGE TALES (1971) #1, MONSTERS UNLEASHED #5 and #8-9, and RAMPAGING HULK (1977) #7.

I guess Man Thing in Uncanny X-men 144 was not an important story to add.

[ER Prest]

Not only is Ennis' run the most famous, its also the predecessor to Aaron's run. If they omni'd Ennis' MAX run and Aaron's run it would, combined with the first Ennis omni, form a complete four volume series much the same way Bendis and Brubaker's DD formed a four volume run. And they didn't release Brubaker's run until Bendis' was over.

Mapping the Ennis books is easy. A 60 issue series means two 30 issue omnis, plus the Born mini and the three one-shots. I'd put those in order of release: Born at the beginning of Volume 1, The End in between issues 6 and 7, The Cell in between 18 and 19 and The Tyger at the beginning of Volume 2. The result would be 880 pages for Volume 1 and 739 pages for Volume 2, plus extras.

It doesn't make much sense to me to release Aaron's run before Ennis'. Aaron's run is newer, the HCs and trades still have life in them whereas the Ennis trades have been around forever and half of the HCs are OOP. And as I said before, Aaron's run is a sequel to Ennis'. Ennis' run is more famous, it has proven value, it continues from a previous omni and would lead into the next and Ennis himself is a big name. Why would Aaron's run be released first?

All that being said, if Aaron's run was solicited I wouldn't exactly be upset. I want both of these runs in omnis, it doesn't really matter to me which one gets omni'd first.

I'd rather have Born and the three one shots at the end actually.

[CrazyOldHermit]

I'd rather have Born and the three one shots at the end actually.

I like having Born at the beginning because it was the bridge between MK and MAX (it was published in-between runs) and because it lays the thematic groundwork that MAX builds on. As for the other three oneshots, they can go anywhere really. Doesn't matter much. But I like having The Cell come before Up Is Down, Black Is White because The Cell deals with him getting his revenge on the men who killed his family and UIDBIW is about the desecration of his family's grave.

[DrGregatron]

I guess Man Thing in Uncanny X-men 144 was not an important story to add.

Hopefully that means the Uncanny X-Men Omnibus vol 2 is due this December and that they didn't want to print the same issue in two omniboo just months apart. Hey, one can hope, right?

[CrazyOldHermit]

I pulled the trigger on Untold Tales. It could go down but it could also go up. I also ordered Essential Sgt Fury. If I'm fine with the paper and black and white I'll buy more Essentials.