When Will We See Azrael?

[deadboy80]

while the wingman visor looks as it did in black glove, it also resembles the last mask JPV wore as az-bats. and ya its the DCNU, so anyone who was dead could be brought back with that as the excuse. there death story is null invoid. so if its the return of JPV im all for it, not a big fan of the other guy.

[MajorHoy]

Apparently JPV isn't dead in the DCnU according to Geoff Johns. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anything to happen though.

And why would Geoff Johns be talking about Jean-Paul?

[Fate's Faith]

I wouldn't mind him returning if he's toned down and that costume to really be thrown out. Put him to a more simple street level look and some of the original pathos. Though I like the sword and vengence idea so definitely an anti-hero.

[SeventhTrump]

I have always been a huge JPV fan and have the AzBats action figure as I really liked that costume design. However, I have felt that JPV has been put in the wrong framework. As the Angel of Vengeance, equipped with a flaming sword and rapid fire shurikens, he does not belong in the setting of those who will NOT utilize lethal force. If he is moved to a setting befitting that, he could be very effective but I do not think he is developed enough for a full time series.

After all, I have always envisioned Lex Luthor walking into his dark office suddenly illuminated only by the light of a flaming sword plunged into his desk followed by "Men call you liar, Men call you betrayer, Men call you defiler". Buy hey, that's just me!

[StDumas]

I think that's exactly why the suggestion that Azrael (either one) appear on JLDark is so good.

[Choppa]

And why would Geoff Johns be talking about Jean-Paul?

He wasn't per se. I was asking him something at C2E2 and since I had his attention I just asked him every question I could think of.

[SeventhTrump]

For me personally, a return of JPV as Azrael is a welcome fit because I'm more than a little tired of 10 year olds, regardless of the training, fighting adults and one man being surrounded by guns still emerging triumphant. Perhaps more than any other character, JPV recognized that crime has changed and gotten far "tougher and meaner" if I may quote Robin (Tim Drake) from Knightquest. Melee tactics can only take you so far with modern sniper rifles capable of 1000 yard shots even from non-military personnel, night vision goggles available to the public, etc. Yes, the shuriken are a bit extreme and maybe he should have had some with blunt edges, but I appreciated that with criminals *improving* so did he in order to take them on. While his methodology is not a good fit for the Batman family, I would like to see him somewhere as people tend to forget that he took out Bane, Nightwing and Bruce before the all too convenient "bright light in the cave tunnel" resolution. I would have preferred for him to "wait out" Bruce until they could actually truly battle for the mantle of the Bat.

[StDumas]

Although DC's purpose was to allow Batman (or someone dressed as Batman) to indulge in the bloodsport of "serious" comics with "realistic" crime, Valley's own dynamism was as someone physically and intellectually but not psychologically or morally capable of being Batman. Michael Lane's story as Bat-Devil was a reenactment/further exploration of this theme. But whereas Bruce successfully "tamed" Valley (pun intended) and deputized him, Dick was unable to domesticate Lane (pun intended again) and the new Azrael spiraled into the self-righteous insanity that the old one ultimately dodged. In either incarnation, Azrael represents the crushing pressure of being Batman tearing apart well-meaning but morally unworthy men. In other words, he stands for a test of faith.

If I was an editor at DC right now, I'd plan a mini-series staring Nightwing, Robin, and Batgirl squaring off against a mysterious, possibly third Azrael.

[Mr. Holmes]

If Johns says he's alive, wouldn't that mean there's something planned? Why would they even bother saying that otherwise?

[StDumas]

If Johns says he's alive, wouldn't that mean there's something planned? Why would they even bother saying that otherwise?

It might mean that they'd rather not be boxed in on any front. Maybe what we hear is "Valley is alive" but all Johns is actually saying is "we'll do what we want regardless." In his unenviable position of managing fan expectations, I'd use any opportunity to remind the people that the company controls "the rules" rather than the fans.

[Jared]

By the end of his series, Lane really reached a point where he didn't fit the Bat-verse at all. Not just in terms of morality, but he was in bullet-proof magic armor with two magic swords doing all kinds of crazy stuff. I mean, he practically had a Dragon Ball Z fight with that metahuman in the desert.

[Master X]

I don't see why Michael Lane has to be erased. I mean, he wasn't around that long. He was around shortly before Bruce vanished (3 Batcops) and then became Azrael for six months, then left to fight evil elsewhere. That time is uncompressed. Nothing from that timeframe needs be lost. It's the one era of bat continuity that doesn't need that much alteration/compression/erasure.

[nepenthes]

For me there were three miserable developments out of the New 52

- Oracle apparently forgotten outright, Barbara de-evolved to a whiney teenager
- Selina and Bruce back to square one
- No more Michael Lane and that whole plot with the Crusader and Ra's Al Ghul under David Hine

That was such a cool little story happening there, I was a fan of the entire series from the first mini under Nicieza and then of course it really kicked off with issue 10 and the Guillem March arc and before tying more closesly with Batman Incorporated and then finally Judgement on Gotham.

This was the guy who killed Bruce for four minutes in RIP and was prophecised to be Satans future agent in Gotham 666! It's just such a shame he seems to be just thrown aside now.

We'll never learn what the long game with Ra's Al Ghul was, if Graysons decision to sanction Lane will ever be justified, what the hell his connection to Jesus Christ was and no more glorious madness from the Crusader.

By the end of his series, Lane really reached a point where he didn't fit the Bat-verse at all. Not just in terms of morality, but he was in bullet-proof magic armor with two magic swords doing all kinds of crazy stuff. I mean, he practically had a Dragon Ball Z fight with that metahuman in the desert.

This is a great point and part of the reason why Judgment on Gotham just me left me hanging - the question of where the hell this can possibly go next was just really exciting. It became so much bigger and weirder than Batman comics could seem to contain

[Cavemold]

Me neither, he was awesome in the gotham shall be judged arc.

[Jared]

I felt Judgment on Gotham was a rather weak, probably due to being a short wrap-up once Az's series was canceled. Suddenly he wants to nuke Gotham for Ra's? I never quite bought anyone's reasoning...except for Crusader, the crazy zealot. Tim being utterly free of sin was like the ultimate Gary Stu moment. Right there, I found myself wishing the sword would burn the pride out of him.

I hope Az shows up again. As noted, JL Dark would be the perfect place. I'd be inclined to at least check out the series if he did. And Crusader could make a pretty good villain, not only for them but maybe Red Hood and the Outlaws or perhaps even Wonder Woman.

For that matter, a former Azrael would be appropriate in Demon Knights.