View Poll Results: Batgirl by Gail Simone / What is your verdict?

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  • 5 Stars: Her work EXCELLED in comparison to other DC writers

    14 6.90%
  • 4 Stars: Her work is ABOVE Average in comparison to other DC writers

    48 23.65%
  • 3 Stars: Her work is AVERAGE in comparison to other DC writers

    58 28.57%
  • 2 Stars: Her work is BELOW Average in comparison to other DC writers

    34 16.75%
  • 1 Star: Her work is POOR in comparison to other DC writers

    49 24.14%
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  1. #91
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldoAAD View Post
    are you saying that Batwoman is a token lesbian character too?
    cause thats how i feel you mean by this
    No I said "and it wouldn't be fair for Batwoman to represent the ENTIRE LGBT community" which she currently does not, she is simply gay, period, and that is just a part of her overall character. But if she were forced into the role of lesbian poster child for the LGBT community it would be no different than what DC wound up doing with oracle.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldoAAD View Post
    If anything, the book of Batgirl is even more about her previous disability than ever before
    isnt that more tokenish than ever?
    No, now it's about being a survivor of a tragedy and living with remnants of PTSD.
    Pull list:
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  2. #92
    The Alpha and The Omega Godlike13's Avatar
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    LoL, already about 80 votes and 90 replies. Gotta love Batgirl threads

    Edit: I forgot to mention the 1,500+ views.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-01-2012 at 03:51 PM.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Trevor M.'s Avatar
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    Mediocre.

    Poor villains, bad narrative, and random characterization from out of nowhere.

    "Aw yeah Batgirl!" WTF?

  4. #94

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    No, now it's about being a survivor of a tragedy and living with remnants of PTSD.
    By engaging in the exact behaviors most likely to trigger said PTSD immediately after getting her legs back. It's an extremely shallow and self-destructive form of recovery; the bad part is the fact that people have literally died because Barbara's gone back to the battlefield while emotionally unfit for the task. The worse part is that Simone still seems to insist that Barbara's form of rehabilitation is a good method.

    A more (potentially) realistic example; if you were to start swimming again after a long physical recovery from a shark attack, you wouldn't start by going off the coast of Africa and jumping into waters filled with great whites.

  5. #95
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor M. View Post
    Mediocre.

    Poor villains, bad narrative, and random characterization from out of nowhere.

    "Aw yeah Batgirl!" WTF?
    And yet somehow I get this suspicion that if oh, say, Steph/Batgirl had said, "Aw yeah Batgirl!" you'd be saying, "Aw yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!" The bitter nitpicking just gets a little obvious after five issues in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitz the Bloody View Post
    By engaging in the exact behaviors most likely to trigger said PTSD immediately after getting her legs back. The worse part is that Simone still seems to insist that Barbara's form of rehabilitation is a good method.
    First off, she's a fictional comic book super hero, getting back on the horse to fight the good fight is what they were penned and inked to DO. Secondly she took an entire year of physical rehabilitation to recover, unlike when Batman or Damian/Robin got their spines healed they jumped right back into the field almost immediately. And when Batwoman almost died and another time she got her back broken she spent, what, a few weeks each time to recover and then RIGHT BACK INTO THE FIELD. What now? No words of THEIR jumping the gun, just for Barbara right? Because possibly your miffed that she is no longer the poster girl for the differently-abled where possibly you feel "she belongs" perhaps? I'm not sure, it just comes across that way at this moment to me.

    I've just never seen so many posters who seem to outright hate a title so much but KEEP BUYING AND READING IT. If you don't like it, don't read it already!
    Last edited by batGRRRl4ever; 02-01-2012 at 04:21 PM.
    Pull list:
    Batgirl, Inhuman, Justice League Beyond 2.0, Letter 44, She-Hulk, SM/WW, Swamp Thing, Ultimate FF (lol, 5 of my 8 titles all written by SOULE)

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitz the Bloody View Post
    By engaging in the exact behaviors most likely to trigger said PTSD immediately after getting her legs back. It's an extremely shallow and self-destructive form of recovery; the bad part is the fact that people have literally died because Barbara's gone back to the battlefield while emotionally unfit for the task. The worse part is that Simone still seems to insist that Barbara's form of rehabilitation is a good method.

    A more (potentially) realistic example; if you were to start swimming again after a long physical recovery from a shark attack, you wouldn't start by going off the coast of Africa and jumping into waters filled with great whites.
    It's as if she has a death wish, and not even like Cassandra Cain style death wish who valued justice and saving people over her own life. Or even Steph as Spoiler at her worst "I'll show them" War Games mentality.

    It's just...mediocre at best and that hurts to say.

  7. #97
    Thunder Crash Personamanx's Avatar
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    Only read an issue of it. Found it to be okay but did not get me at all interested in this new character (let's not pretend she's anything like her previous incarnations). So never picked up any issue past one.

    The book is average in comparison to most DC books but right now there's really only one DC book I find good enough to read on a monthly basis so that's not saying much at all.

  8. #98
    Mind Controller ArnoldoAAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    No I said "and it wouldn't be fair for Batwoman to represent the ENTIRE LGBT community" which she currently does not, she is simply gay, period, and that is just a part of her overall character. But if she were forced into the role of lesbian poster child for the LGBT community it would be no different than what DC wound up doing with oracle.
    she doesnt represent the ENTIRE("entire" being the key word) LGBT community
    but thats not the same as saying that she at least Does representative of that comunity

    you are right on saying that she is simply gay but you are wrong in thinking that is not important at all for some ppl of that community

    same case for oracle
    she was never the posterchild for the ppl with this condition but it doesnt mean that it didnt meant anything for them

    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    No, now it's about being a survivor of a tragedy and living with remnants of PTSD.
    i stand corrected

    now she is the poster child for ppl with PTSD

    you have to admit that her time in a wheelchair and her condition as such its more important and relevant now than when she was Oracle

    ok we had the occational stories on her wantign to recover her legs and remembering the shot, but it never defined her character

    she acts like that time was the end of her life and now she wants to recover her "real" life
    this is metaphorically, Barb running away from the chair and the chair will never stop pursuing her
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  9. #99

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    First off, she's a fictional comic book super hero, getting back on the horse to fight the good fight is what they were penned and inked to DO. Secondly she took an entire year of physical rehabilitation to recover, unlike when Batman or Damian/Robin got their spines healed they jumped right back into the field almost immediately. And when Batwoman almost died and another time she got her back broken she spent, what, a few weeks each time to recover and then RIGHT BACK INTO THE FIELD. What now? No words of THEIR jumping the gun, just for Barbara right? Because possibly your miffed that she is no longer the poster girl for the differently-abled where possibly you feel "she belongs" perhaps? I'm not sure, it just comes across that way at this moment to me.
    For the record, Batman had a long road of rehabilitation even after his spine was fixed, and was wary about putting the costume back on until Azrael's breakdown forced his hand. And Damian had his spine broken and healed in a matter of two issues, over a very short amount of comic time. I didn't read the Batwoman issue, but I assume that Kate Kane didn't have nightmares about it for years that would effect her performance.

    And yes, I am bitching about the "poster girl" thing, because A.) Disabled characters period (far less good ones) are hardly plentiful, B.) disability itself be it physical or mental should not be treated like a curse that makes the person less than human, and C.) what Barbara does in light of having her spine fixed and coping with her trauma is to become exactly what she was before, a crass distaff imitation of a better character.

    I've just never seen so many posters who seem to outright hate a title so much but KEEP BUYING AND READING IT. If you don't like it, don't read it already!
    The intense ableism of the set-up is such that I'm going to keep buying and reading it, because the issue isn't with the comic so much as the sentiment it perpetuates, and I need to be informed to counter that.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Trevor M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    And yet somehow I get this suspicion that if oh, say, Steph/Batgirl had said, "Aw yeah Batgirl!" you'd be saying, "Aw yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!" The bitter nitpicking just gets a little obvious after five issues in.
    It's not a bitter nitpick though. It doesn't seem like anything Barbara would be saying, I mean what is she 14? I could totally understand if it came from Steph she's way younger and it's more in character for her. Don't make and assume things just to try and defend the book.

  11. #101
    The Alpha and The Omega Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitz the Bloody View Post
    The intense ableism of the set-up is such that I'm going to keep buying and reading it, because the issue isn't with the comic so much as the sentiment it perpetuates, and I need to be informed to counter that.
    LoL, really? Can i ask, did u buy many Oracle comics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor M. View Post
    It's not a bitter nitpick though. It doesn't seem like anything Barbara would be saying, I mean what is she 14? I could totally understand if it came from Steph she's way younger and it's more in character for her. Don't make and assume things just to try and defend the book.
    Umm, no she's not. Steph was 19-20, Babs just turned 21. So...
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-01-2012 at 06:43 PM.

  12. #102
    Senior Member Trevor M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Umm, no she's not. Steph was 19-20, Babs just turned 21. So...
    Regression in character too? This book has it all. Seriously though, after all the years of Oracle (which Gail Simone said was still in play) I would have expected Barbara to mature a bit more. But that her yelling that kind of nonsense and saying other things that make me wanna facepalm are what's holding this book back.

  13. #103
    Gotham Guardian Captain Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtools View Post
    This is as good a place as any to posit a theory:

    People have often pegged Gail Simone as one of the best writers for women characters. This is definitely true. But I think that's more of a by-product of her real strength as a writer.

    If you look at her comics that get unanimously good reviews (Birds Of Prey, Secret Six) and compare them to her comics that get mixed reviews (Batgirl, Wonder Woman), the difference between them is that her best books are team books.

    Essentially I think Gail Simone writes best when she's handling teams. Especially ones whose personalities clash. The best parts of Birds Of Prey were those that involved characters bouncing off each other: Canary & Oracle, Oracle & Huntress, Canary & Shiva, etc... And Secret Six drew a lot of it's acclaim for incorporating such a diverse range of characters.

    Gail is really good at devising stories that are driven by or related to a character's backstory or their deep-seated motivations. And she's able to bring these themes to the fore by having the characters converse in natural-feeling dialogue.

    When she doesn't have multiple characters, she reverts to verbose narration and too-obvious attempts to create villains that reflect the characters, ala Mirror and Genocide.

    I think the reason Batgirl feels so forced is that Barbara is back to being a lone hero and has no one to bounce off. I thought the Nightwing issue was the best so far because it did have that aspect.

    Thoughts?
    Interesting theory; you may have something there. I'm enjoying Batgirl just fine, but would quickly agree that it's not one of Gail's best projects (not yet anyway). On the other hand, while it was being published, Secret Six was my favorite DC title.
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  14. #104
    The Alpha and The Omega Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor M. View Post
    Regression in character too? This book has it all. Seriously though, after all the years of Oracle (which Gail Simone said was still in play) I would have expected Barbara to mature a bit more. But that her yelling that kind of nonsense and saying other things that make me wanna facepalm are what's holding this book back.
    Regression in universe. Welcome to the DCnU. Gail Simone said many times that Batgirl is a part of this post-Flashpoint DC Universe, where all, well most, of their characters have been regressed, and are now younger and less experienced. All the years of Oracle, aren't "all the years of Oracle" anymore. We don't know what they are right now quite frankly. Never the less Babs has just turned 21, which isn't way older then Steph's age of 19-20 by any means.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-01-2012 at 07:14 PM.

  15. #105
    Senior Member Trevor M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Regression in universe. Welcome to the DCnU. Gail Simone said many time that Batgirl is a part of this post-Flashpoint DC Universe, where all, well most, of their characters have been regressed, and are now younger and less experienced. All the years of Oracle, aren't "all the years" of Oracle anymore. We don't know what they are right now quite frankly.
    And yet, this feels the most OOC. Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the questionable dialogue, and terrible villains (wait, lets see how Gretel turns out.) Meanwhile, I don't like it. This book seems like a step down from what was going on before.

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