Batgirl by Gail Simone / What is your verdict?

[Captain Jim]

Really? Because you and others have complained several times about people who "can't get over it" or "were never going to like the new Batgirl and that's why they dislike the book" or "are just nitpicking".

There's a difference between being sad about a chain of events and being obsessive. When people post dozens of "she's not as good as Steph (or Cassie) posts every time a new issue of Batgirl comes out (or in a thread like this one), that's obsessive, IMO. Not to mention irritating to the vast majority of posters.

And are you all even aware of the extent to which Batgirl fans (of any variety) are considered by many fans to be obsessive nuts? (Btw, don't shoot the messenger, please.)

[The Man From Room X]

Where do you get this from? I think Gail has said pretty much the opposite, that when they approached her about writing this book, editorial said that they were NOT doing away with the events of TKJ.

Oh its in continuity alright, the same way as Sinestro Corps War and Blackest Night are still in continuity. How does that work, given what we've seen of DCnU so far is anybodys guess.

[Captain Jim]

The poll results to date are certainly interesting; they demonstrate the extent to which internet fandom is polarized by this book. 100 people think the book is average or better than average in quality, whereas 73 (a substantial minority) think it is less than average in quality. But it least it should put to rest the myth that everybody hates this book.

[shark]

There's a difference between being sad about a chain of events and being obsessive. When people post dozens of "she's not as good as Steph (or Cassie) posts every time a new issue of Batgirl comes out (or in a thread like this one), that's obsessive, IMO. Not to mention irritating to the vast majority of posters.

And are you all even aware of the extent to which Batgirl fans (of any variety) are considered by many fans to be obsessive nuts? (Btw, don't shoot the messenger, please.)

And only the people complaining about it are being obsessive or irritating about it. Right.

[ArnoldoAAD]

Where do you get this from? I think Gail has said pretty much the opposite, that when they approached her about writing this book, editorial said that they were NOT doing away with the events of TKJ.

Issue #8 make it pretty clear to me

Gordon didnt matter, Joker didnt matter, Batman didnt matter
the only thing that matter is Barbara Gordon and thats not what TKJ was about
what is left is 2 pages of the whole story, the rest is either not there or just changed for the worst

and just want to state it pretty clear
as my personal opinion
Gail Ruined The Killing Joke to me
and im not gonna debate about it

The poll results to date are certainly interesting; they demonstrate the extent to which internet fandom is polarized by this book. 100 people think the book is average or better than average in quality, whereas 73 (a substantial minority) think it is less than average in quality. But it least it should put to rest the myth that everybody hates this book.

thats an interesting way to see it
you can also say that only 49 ppl like the book 51 thinks is just merely average and the rest 73 dont like it at all

[Captain Jim]

Issue #8 make it pretty clear to me

How so?....

[Captain Jim]

And only the people complaining about it are being obsessive or irritating about it. Right.

No, I wouldn't say that. I can think of at least one Babs fan who seems pretty obsessive too.
But there are several who seem to have made it their life's mission to attack the book at every opportunity.

[coveredinbees]

But he's just gonna get married and retconned again.

[ArnoldoAAD]

How so?....

I made an edit but just to keep it simple
she retconned a meaningless fact just to have a meanigless death in this book
then Danny said that the Joker was there for revenge
which isnt true, thats criminal, is not even worth discussing

and finally, Gordon wasnt there, which also hint that he wasnt even kidnapped

now the story of Joker might still kind of happen cause is a flashback but it also had this changing nature that it was more of a deep analisis of Joker as a character than anything else, but it just doesnt matter

for a "sequel" of TKJ they it just focus on character that was in 3-4 pages
what happen was important, i wont say it wasnt
but it wasnt the only thing about it

Gail turn The Killing Joke into a punchline

[Captain Jim]

I made an edit but just to keep it simple
she retconned a meaningless fact just to have a meanigless death in this book
then Danny said that the Joker was there for revenge
which isnt true, thats criminal, is not even worth discussing

and finally, Gordon wasnt there, which also hint that he wasnt even kidnapped

now the story of Joker might still kind of happen cause is a flashback but it also had this changing nature that it was more of a deep analisis of Joker as a character than anything else, but it just doesnt matter

for a "sequel" of TKJ they it just focus on character that was in 3-4 pages
what happen was important, i wont say it wasnt
but it wasnt the only thing about it

Gail turn The Killing Joke into a punchline

Well, you're correct of course that she took some liberties with the story line. But I don't see that this necessarily renders the entire story non-existent. Just a bit different.

[ArnoldoAAD]

Well, you're correct of course that she took some liberties with the story line. But I don't see that this necessarily renders the entire story non-existent. Just a bit different.

im sorry if i wasnt clear enough
but Gail ruined TKJ to ME

what is left cannot be considerate TKJ, is just Barb getting shot thats all

[americanwonder]

You kow what I mean. Run the numbers if you wish, I'm pretty sure Steph was upbeat for the majority of her Batgirl run...

I know - it was just a joke, because fake stats are funny. Yes, Steph was very upbeat; it's one thing I like about her.

... Are you going to take this seriously or not?

Honestly? No, not really. imo, this thread lost (if it ever had) credibility pages ago. I'm all for people voicing their likes and dislikes, especially in a "verdict" type of thread. I'm all for people voicing displeasure that a favorite comic run was cut short (I'd like to buy more Steph-Batgirl by Miller and co., too). But there's way too much ... how shall I put this... melodrama(?) going on in here. Hard for me to take that seriously.

People can like it or not, but Steph-as-Batgirl was not a success. Whether or not that keeps one from enjoying the current Batgirl? I guess that's for each of us to decide. It's not going to stop me.

[Sunbird]

People can like it or not, but Steph-as-Batgirl was not a success. Whether or not that keeps one from enjoying the current Batgirl? I guess that's for each of us to decide. It's not going to stop me.

I'd enjoy it a lot more if she at least appeared somewhere, with her awesome intact. Not everyone can support a book, that doesn't mean they have to be locked away and have the key eaten by Killer Croc.

[americanwonder]

It doesnt matter anything Storywise
and personally
It doesnt mean anything to me

I get that. I agree. For me, Wally is better than Barry. But, DC didn't ask me. And I can see why they'd want Barry over Wally (Barry does have the better origin, but not by much).

From a story standpoint, my personal enjoyment is not based on who is iconic. But I thought we were discussing 'why would DC make the decision to put Babs back as Batgirl'? DC does care about who is iconic, and who is successful.

NO!
and I REFUSE to accept that rotten carcass of a story that Gail is using on Batgirl as anything to do with "The Killing Joke"

REFUSE it all you want; your choice.

what is there that you see in common exactly?

Voice. No, this Babs is not identical to Batgirl: Year One Babs. But then, Batgirl: Year One Babs hadn't been shot and paralyzed, yet. Just as Rucka's WW felt like Perez' WW all grown up, this Babs feels like an evolution: Year One -> TKJ -> now. She's trying to literally and figuratively get her feet solidly back under her and move foward. Yes, she has changed, we all change. But, to me, it's still very much Babs. Babs' voice, and her spirit, her intelligence, etc., is still there. And I do love Babs.

... 1- she is not the iconic batgirl on any way but she didnt aim to be, unlike Barb, and if you think she is not trying to be, then there is no point on her to be batgirl at all

She doesn't have to try to be, she already is the Iconic Batgirl, whether or not you like it. Babs is the Batgirl that appears most in other media and merchandise.

thats unfair
She was batgirl for 2 years

I dont think the mainstream public is even aware that there was a second robin who died much less that the 5th one is batman son
you see where im going with this?

Fair? DC doesn't care about fairness to characters when it comes to making money. How long should they push an unsuccessful version of a character?

The Robins are more successful than Batgirls. That's why there are more of them in print right now. I don't like it, but thems the facts.

I care about continuity and that character are literally being ruin with this move

I understand caring about the continuity of favorite characters. Believe me, I do. I don't like seeing it all seemingly go away either (just ask the WW fan in me). However, this is DC comics; their continuity has been a mess for quiet some time. And this is a reboot, in other words, there really isn't any hard continuity.

an small correction
I didnt put depressed, as in she depress all the time, i put Depressing, as in this is really depressing to read about

You're right; my bad. Apologies for misrepresenting what you said. I say don't read it if it's too depressing for you.

like on this, she had the occasional "oh no my mom will find my secret ID" which is something common but the reason for babs to whine is cause she was SHOT, 3 years ago, the walking part is not even that important, it all comes down to "oh i got shut and lose my legs ;_;, but now i have them, but i got shot ;_;"
to make an equivalent for steph would be to have her complain of War Games during all her run
War Games was mentioned once of the 24 chps of her run

Well, being SHOT and paralyzed is a pretty big deal, no?

Steph doesn't mention War Games much because War Games is crap, particularly Steph's role. So, yeah, the author isn't going to want to dwell on the "Oh, I died but got better" from a bad story.

In any case, if Batgirl is not to your liking, I hope you do find some comics that are more enjoyable for you. :)

[americanwonder]

I'd enjoy it a lot more if she at least appeared somewhere, with her awesome intact. Not everyone can support a book, that doesn't mean they have to be locked away and have the key eaten by Killer Croc.

Amen! I totally agree. I'd like to see Cass back as well (I still don't understand what DC thought they were doing with Cass).