Batgirl by Gail Simone / What is your verdict?

[The Lucky One]

Steph series had maybe one of the worst takes on Scarecrow ive ever seen. With his devilish plot to spike the punch bowls of college parties. Just real low point for him.

You're probably gonna want to steer clear of the Scarebeast story, I will offer.

-D

[ArnoldoAAD]

Were they really? 'Cause most of them were basically cameos there for the purpose of punching, and the secret society in the community college, while a semi-funny concept, never really went anywhere.

And how often was the detective guy in Steph's book around in the first five issues? I think that's the closest analogue.

He's her father, I think it's safe to say he's always going to have a role.

Yeah, the last issue, which means more is probably going to be done, and we're probably going to have more development with her.

Seriously, what supporting cast solely for Stephanie's book did we have?

We had Barbara, who was pretty much the most fully-rounded supporting role.

Wendy, who made little appearances at the beginning of the run, had a big story in the middle, and then...was just kinda there for the rest of the run until she left for...some reason. Seriously, all that was needed to complete the image was a caption saying, "Wendy died on the way to her home planet."

You had the police detective who went on an awkward date, had awkward tension with Stephanie/Batgirl, hinting at a love triangle that...went nowhere. SUDDENLY! It was revealed he was part of the community college secret society! That means...absolutely nothing.

Then you had Stephanie's mom, who was there to make waffles and be some extra dramatic tension about Stephanie's duel life until the end, when we found out she knew the whole time. Wah wah waaaah.

Okay, what else...we had some Mean Girl rejects at the community college, a boy who was the son of a gangster that Steph was sort-of into until she found out he was gay, and...that's about all I can remember. Of course, we had some cameos with other superheroes and members of the Bat-Family, but I don't think they were frequent enough or important enough to count as supporting cast.

Like I said, BQM wrote Stephanie very, very, VERY well. She was able to carry a book for two years, all because of her. That's the sign of a good character. I enjoyed the issues as they were coming out because of her, and I would want to see her come back in the near future. But, looking back...I can't help but notice the flaws.

im not gonna say that Steph's book had an amazing supporting cast cause, it didnt

but i wouldnt call any of those you mentioned a supporting cast of Barb's book
if anything the only supporting cast so far is Alyssa
and she is the most forgettable character in he whole book

and also i liked what you said that pretty much steph carry her own book for all that time
but do you think This Barb can do the same? after only 5 issues

[maximiliani]

As far as Steph's book losing steam, it WAS losing steam, you have to take into account Miller was cut short of three or so issues so due to be told he was going to be canceled for the rebooted Babs so The Reapers' character arc, Clancy/Grey Ghost and Cluemaster were also both most certainly cut short, as was Detective Nick's backstory as well as Wendy's character arc. It probably would have been 100% better from a writing standpoint.

I DO think people were jumping ship on Steph's book due to the announcement of the reboot. Yes 25,000 is not great. It would probably get canceled sometime in 2012 if they had not done a reboot. Maybe make it to 35 issues. It depends....

On the flip side most of Babs Batgirl sales have been fueled simply by controversy, in 2011 the first issue made over 100,000 sales for the year, but by issue 5 it's selling in the 50,000 range, following a downward trend that matches sales the other Batgirls too have reached. Something must not be keeping interest and imo that shows that while it worked upfront a Babs Batgirl is not going to make much of a difference. We'll see what her sales for Janurary were.

I also am weary of what Gail Simone says concerning Steph Batgirl. She is writing the one that replaced that one, another book entirely so she technically imo has no right to state such facts. Until I hear it directly from Miller himself I don't NOT neccesarily belive her but I find it rude of her to speak of it like that when Miller has not revealed any such information.

As for her book, I fear Gail is really cracking under pressure, or rather something is off at home or something. Executive meddling or something and she's not in 100% or what. We had a lackluster BOP second volume with lots of executive meddling with Hawk and Dove, then the Firestorm debacle and then Batgirl, which isn't BAD but is not her top form at all, and She's writing her idol in a way she probably wanted to write her forever but again as people have noticed she is struggling with the solo character form. Perhaps that is why she is introducing Barbara's wannabee Batgirl neighbor who I assume will be Charlie.

[Godlike13]

So, be weary. Her word still holds more weight than anyone here on the subject, and she been nothing but upfront with us in my experience.

Steph's first Batgirl issue is the only issue that reached 50k, which too was fueled by controversy (Who's going to be Batgirl?), and then went all down from there. So i guess regardless of how some of u praise Step's series now, it must not have been able to keep interest huh?
DC likely just wasn't happy with Batgirl being a under 25k, and losing, title, not able to even stay ranked in the top 100. Thats understandable IMO.
And for the record even with Cass', only here first issue was over 50k, then under and downward from there (did see bumps for tie-ins and crossovers though). Im not even going to bring up her mini (was anyone that surprised she lost gig after that?).

Babs Batgirl started very high for Batgirl, and now its dropping trying to find its level. A lot of the other books are doing the same thing. Even books that get praised up a storm around here like Batwoman and Wonder Woman, who's drop rate are around the same percentage. So, even still, Batgirl is doing very well for a Batgirl title, better than it has in a long, long time.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/01/27...december-2011/

And no im not saying sales = quality, i know how poster like to point that out all the time.

[ArnoldoAAD]

So, be weary. Her word still holds more weight than anyone here on the subject, and she been nothing but upfront with us in my experience.

Steph's first Batgirl issue is the only issue that reached 50k, which too was fueled by controversy (Who's going to be Batgirl?)

Its not even comparable to the controversy of removing Oracle and making Barb walk again

also it was either Cass, Steph or a new character and i cant remember the polls well at that time but I think most ppl guested that it was gonna be her

, and then went all down from there. So i guess regardless of how some of u praise Step's series now, it must not have been able to keep interest huh?

well Barb's book is going down as well
true, is still selling more than Steph's book but you need to take into account that Barb's book had a higher starting point cause not only the controversy around it, but also the NEW 52 boosted everything

DC probably just wasn't happy with Batgirl being a under 25k, and losing, title, not able to stay ranked in the top 100.

DC probably wasnt happy that SEVERAL of its titles were like that
hell JLA was selling 40k

the only things selling were Green Lantern, Batman or events

Thats understandable IMO.
And for the record even with Cass, only here first issue was over 50k, then under and downward from there (did see bumps for tie-ins and crossovers though). I not even going to bring up her mini (was anyone that surprised she lost gig after that?).

Babs Batgirl started very high for Batgirl, and now its dropping trying to find its level. A lot of the other books are doing the same thing. Even books that get praised up a storm around her like Batwoman and Wonder Woman, who's drop rate are around the same percentage. So, even still, Batgirl is doing very well for Batgirl, better than it has in a long, long, long time.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/01/27...december-2011/

And no im not saying sales = quality, i know how poster like to point that out all the time.

thats right but like i say there is actually a point of sales
in reality Relaunching the book with Barb is more profitable than launching it with Steph
but it doesnt make it the right decision

also in reality all the new 52 are losing sales, some more than others, and the sad part is that titles that are less known are losing it faster
things like Frankenstein, I, Vampire, Voodoo and Batwing are bleeding profusely every month despite being high quality books

[paulski]

im not gonna say that Steph's book had an amazing supporting cast cause, it didnt

but i wouldnt call any of those you mentioned a supporting cast of Barb's book
if anything the only supporting cast so far is Alyssa
and she is the most forgettable character in he whole book

I guess that was more my point to Jared rather than suggesting that Steph's book had a super supporting cast, although the characters were a lot more fun than on the current book (not to mention better written IMO).

[paulski]

On the flip side most of Babs Batgirl sales have been fueled simply by controversy, in 2011 the first issue made over 100,000 sales for the year, but by issue 5 it's selling in the 50,000 range, following a downward trend that matches sales the other Batgirls too have reached. Something must not be keeping interest and imo that shows that while it worked upfront a Babs Batgirl is not going to make much of a difference. We'll see what her sales for Janurary were.

Steph's first Batgirl issue is the only issue that reached 50k, which too was fueled by controversy (Who's going to be Batgirl?), and then went all down from there. So i guess regardless of how some of u praise Step's series now, it must not have been able to keep interest huh?
DC likely just wasn't happy with Batgirl being a under 25k, and losing, title, not able to even stay ranked in the top 100. Thats understandable IMO.

well Barb's book is going down as well
true, is still selling more than Steph's book but you need to take into account that Barb's book had a higher starting point cause not only the controversy around it, but also the NEW 52 boosted everything

I think the sales figures for this book will make for interesting reading over the next few months. It must be a concern that sales are reportedly still dropping significantly - you always allow for a marginal drop, it's the way of the (comics)world - but some of the New 52 are apparently yet to find their feet.

I really hope that it remains a strong seller, because I want to keep buying a Batgirl book. But I'm also really curious about what sales figures will look like in 18 months' time (you know, issue #24, which just happened to be the final issue of the last series... ).

[vampiric_cannibal]

I'm giving this 5 years, no matter the sales. I doubt DC would change Batgirls again anyway (and given all the trouble they've been to, I wouldn't want them to do that. Like, for a decade at least. No point at all, they've done that how many times in 3 years?), so they'll retool and event tie in this to everything. I think it'll level out at 35-45k on Diamond, plus foreign and digital sales, trades etc.

[ArnoldoAAD]

I'm giving this 5 years, no matter the sales. I doubt DC would change Batgirls again anyway (and given all the trouble they've been to, I wouldn't want them to do that. Like, for a decade at least. No point at all, they've done that how many times in 3 years?), so they'll retool and event tie in this to everything. I think it'll level out at 35-45k on Diamond, plus foreign and digital sales, trades etc.

lol are you serious
5 years is a subreal projection for a run like this after just 5 months of questionable quality

I doubt that that Gail will stay on the book for more than a year or 2 max

and I also like to think that DC left a couple of backdoors open for a couple of ppl
i dont think DC will stick with a book like for example Green Arrow whose slaes been fallen like a rock non-stop and has been universally panned
the same for things like Static and others
so i think just like some titles are cancel and replaced continuity will fix itself if something doesnt quite work out
and Batgirl might have that option

[Agent_Dark]

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/01/27...december-2011/

And no im not saying sales = quality, i know how poster like to point that out all the time.

Here's an interesting way to look at it. The books I've used as comparisons all had similar jumps from their last pre-new52 sales to their New52 #1 sales (all in excess of 200% increases). So all these titles are in the same boat so to speak as Batgirl both pre and post reboot.

The first number is the number of sales in thousands. The percentage in brackets is how well Batgirl was/is selling relative to that title. All values are approximate, rounded off to the nearest 1000 for the sales and the nearest 1% for the relative performance.

In August 2011 (pre new52):

• Batgirl #24 - 24k (+0%)
• Batman #713 - 52k (-54%)
• JLA #60 - 43k (-44%)
• Action Comics #904 - 39k (-38%)
• Supergirl #67 - 20k (+20%)
• Superman #714 - 36k (-33%)
• Jonah Hex #70 - 10k (+140%)

In Dec 2011 (4 weeks in, ie the initial relaunch frenzy of the +200% sales are wearing off and books are starting to settle to more 'normal' numbers):

• Batgirl #4 - 60k (+0%)
• Batman #4 - 134k (-55%)
• Justice League #4 - 149k (-60%)
• Action Comics #4 - 113k (-47%)
• Supergirl #4 - 44k (+36%)
• Superman #4 - 77k (-22%)
• All Star Western #4 - 29k (+107%)

Batgirl's relative performance against these other DC titles has barely changed. It's selling a bit worse after the reboot relative to some titles (Action Comics, Justice League, Jonah Hex/ASW) and selling a bit better relative to some other titles (Supergirl, Superman) and selling about the same relative to Batman.

So what does it mean? That you can make statistics say anything you want I guess. But it's interesting to see how little the title has changed relative to the other big movers.

[Godlike13]

Its not even comparable to the controversy of removing Oracle and making Barb walk again

also it was either Cass, Steph or a new character and i cant remember the polls well at that time but I think most ppl guested that it was gonna be her

What are u talking about? Removing Oracle and making Barb walk again was also one of the various possibilities at that time, and something that some people thought was going to happen.

Edit: But to be clear, im not comparing the scale of the controversy and marketing ploy, but the sales pattern.

well Barb's book is going down as well
true, is still selling more than Steph's book but you need to take into account that Barb's book had a higher starting point cause not only the controversy around it, but also the NEW 52 boosted everything

Yet not all of the NEW 52s sold the same.

DC probably wasnt happy that SEVERAL of its titles were like that
hell JLA was selling 40k

They probably were not. Which is why we saw a lot of change with the new 52.

the only things selling were Green Lantern, Batman or events

Two of the least affected, minus Batgirl, the Bat sides lowest selling ongoing.

thats right but like i say there is actually a point of sales
in reality Relaunching the book with Barb is more profitable than launching it with Steph
but it doesnt make it the right decision

Um, what?

also in reality all the new 52 are losing sales, some more than others, and the sad part is that titles that are less known are losing it faster
things like Frankenstein, I, Vampire, Voodoo and Batwing are bleeding profusely every month despite being high quality books

Which just goes to show how important a lead character can be.

[Godlike13]

I think the sales figures for this book will make for interesting reading over the next few months. It must be a concern that sales are reportedly still dropping significantly - you always allow for a marginal drop, it's the way of the (comics)world - but some of the New 52 are apparently yet to find their feet.

I really hope that it remains a strong seller, because I want to keep buying a Batgirl book. But I'm also really curious about what sales figures will look like in 18 months' time (you know, issue #24, which just happened to be the final issue of the last series... ).

A lot of the New 52 have apparently yet to find their feet, and again Batgirl really isn't dropping significantly, no more than Batwoman or Wonder Woman is. Hell or even Action, Superman, Flash, GLC, or various others. These are just books that have yet to find their feet. Not too mention i don't think it'd be too presumptuous of me to say that Batgirl came in higher then they expected, so while it probably is a concern that sales are dropping, i doubt DC didn't expect it. And i doubt were seeing this Night of Owls crossover just for shits and giggles .

[shark]

Steph's first Batgirl issue is the only issue that reached 50k, which too was fueled by controversy (Who's going to be Batgirl?), and then went all down from there.

Not comparable at all. I don't remember that controversy being news in boards that were not comic related. Not to mention that Steph didn't have a company relaunch holding her hand.

[Godlike13]

Im really not sure how its not comparable? What, u don't think that DC's Who's going to be Batgirl? marketing ploy didn't play into, or fuel, her initial issues' sales? Because it did. So given what the poster i was responding to was saying, and how it quickly dropped to being a under 35k title and trended down after, it must not have been able to keep interest.

[shark]

So what, u don't think that DC's Who's going to be Batgirl? marketing ploy didn't play into, or fuel, her initial issues sales?

I didn't say that, I said it's nowhere near the same. You can't compare a "who's gonna be Batgirl" marketing ploy that nobody outside comics heard about to a company relaunch that was everywhere. Just like you can't compare the controversy of Steph replacing Cass with the huge controversy the Oracle debacle generated. That shit was everywhere. Who outside the comic fandom knew Steph was the new Batgirl and that Cass was being replaced?