View Poll Results: Batgirl by Gail Simone / What is your verdict?

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  • 5 Stars: Her work EXCELLED in comparison to other DC writers

    14 6.90%
  • 4 Stars: Her work is ABOVE Average in comparison to other DC writers

    48 23.65%
  • 3 Stars: Her work is AVERAGE in comparison to other DC writers

    58 28.57%
  • 2 Stars: Her work is BELOW Average in comparison to other DC writers

    34 16.75%
  • 1 Star: Her work is POOR in comparison to other DC writers

    49 24.14%
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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldoAAD View Post
    1 Star

    Terrible villains
    Poor set up
    and I dont care about the supporting cast
    Bab should have never recover her legs
    Add to that the piss-poor dialogue.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    What about any of the handicapped readers who looked up to Oracle? Whether you like it or not hundreds of people enjoyed her in a wheelchair more and she was an incredibly strong minority character that people could look up to. Honestly though, how many strong handicapped characters are there in comics? Almost none. Oracle stood for something and was mainstream.

    I'm going to use the same argument that I always use in this case:

    This is an universe where people get killed and resurrected every week, what's so unbelievable and wrong about making a person walk again?.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Statham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    I'm going to use the same argument that I always use in this case:

    This is an universe where people get killed and resurrected every week, what's so unbelievable and wrong about making a person walk again?.
    I think it's not the matter that a person is walking again, so much that it's Barbara Gordon that's walking again. More than Professor X or any of those types, she was, pretty much, the definitive main disabled character in comics for some, and unlike the likes of the Chief in Doom Patrol, or Xavier, again, she was never tarred with that 'dark and ugly secrets' brush that made Professor X in particular morally incomprehensible. Oracle was the premier hero in a wheelchair, proving that a person with no superpowers and a disability could still aid to an incredible degree in the DCU. Her attitude to her disability was a damn good example to many disabled readers, as we saw and still see in the light of the DCnU.

    That's all gone out the window now. It's not even that she's Batgirl again for me - although my preferences for the holder of that role and title are pretty clear - but now she's just another Gotham vigilante, and frankly, one overshadowed by Batwoman, who is a much more interesting character. The attitudes I've seen displayed by some around here to people who have cited Oracle as an inspiring character is pretty disgusting too - I remember seeing some threads where people were basically declaring that anyone who liked Oracle could now just shove off and go and be a fan of the Doom Patrol's Chief or characters along those lines, which.. Well, completely misses the point. From a complete mess of a situation that even the writer never wanted (The Killing Joke's resolution and Alan Moore), DC created a great character who didn't need the mantle of the Bat to be awesome. And now, we've got none of that. DC have even abandoned the notion of running with Wendy as an Oracle-style character. So where do fans who liked Oracle turn to now?

    Aside from the fact that the book's bland, the characters are poor, and the art pales in comparison to some of the Bat-Titles, I think that's why some people take objection to this title.

  4. #49

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    I am liking Simone's work on Batgirl quite a bit. We're only five issues in and the themes are being explored nicely, but the title does suffer from rickety editorial work by Bobbie Chase. Is Batgirl the best thing I've read that Simone wrote? No but I like it just fine.
    "If God is the answer, the wrong question has been asked."

  5. #50
    Who Rules The Night StDumas's Avatar
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    The book isn't bland at all. The art is good and well though-out. Babs is basically the only character so far. Even the aptly-named first-arc villain is mostly around as a sounding board. Focusing on Babs is the right way to get this rolling.

  6. #51
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statham View Post
    I think it's not the matter that a person is walking again, so much that it's Barbara Gordon that's walking again. More than Professor X or any of those types, she was, pretty much, the definitive main disabled character in comics for some, and unlike the likes of the Chief in Doom Patrol, or Xavier, again, she was never tarred with that 'dark and ugly secrets' brush that made Professor X in particular morally incomprehensible. Oracle was the premier hero in a wheelchair, proving that a person with no superpowers and a disability could still aid to an incredible degree in the DCU. Her attitude to her disability was a damn good example to many disabled readers, as we saw and still see in the light of the DCnU.

    That's all gone out the window now. It's not even that she's Batgirl again for me - although my preferences for the holder of that role and title are pretty clear - but now she's just another Gotham vigilante, and frankly, one overshadowed by Batwoman, who is a much more interesting character. The attitudes I've seen displayed by some around here to people who have cited Oracle as an inspiring character is pretty disgusting too - I remember seeing some threads where people were basically declaring that anyone who liked Oracle could now just shove off and go and be a fan of the Doom Patrol's Chief or characters along those lines, which.. Well, completely misses the point. From a complete mess of a situation that even the writer never wanted (The Killing Joke's resolution and Alan Moore), DC created a great character who didn't need the mantle of the Bat to be awesome. And now, we've got none of that. DC have even abandoned the notion of running with Wendy as an Oracle-style character. So where do fans who liked Oracle turn to now?

    Aside from the fact that the book's bland, the characters are poor, and the art pales in comparison to some of the Bat-Titles, I think that's why some people take objection to this title.
    So you want a pretty female character who was a former super hero but not "ugly" males like the Chief or Xavier, who doesn't need the bat-symbol, with an overall positive attitude about her situation. Sounds like someone just needs to cripple Stephanie Brown for the next 22+yrs, there your problems solved! Seriously though, I really would not want to ever see any other DC character be forced into the tokenism role that Barbara was pigeon-holed into. I'll say it again, it's not fair to make any one character be forced to be representative of an entire community, no matter which community it is.
    Last edited by batGRRRl4ever; 02-01-2012 at 08:05 AM.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statham View Post
    I think it's not the matter that a person is walking again, so much that it's Barbara Gordon that's walking again. More than Professor X or any of those types, she was, pretty much, the definitive main disabled character in comics for some, and unlike the likes of the Chief in Doom Patrol, or Xavier, again, she was never tarred with that 'dark and ugly secrets' brush that made Professor X in particular morally incomprehensible. Oracle was the premier hero in a wheelchair, proving that a person with no superpowers and a disability could still aid to an incredible degree in the DCU. Her attitude to her disability was a damn good example to many disabled readers, as we saw and still see in the light of the DCnU.
    Er, no. The most recognizable paraplegic character is definitely Charles Xavier mostly because being in the incredible popular X-Men franchise and exposed in cartoons and movies. Outside of comics few people know about Oracle since she has'nt been on that many cartoons and non existant in movies, it does'nt matter if she's the most likable of the two if most people don't know her.

    Aside from the fact that the book's bland, the characters are poor, and the art pales in comparison to some of the Bat-Titles, I think that's why some people take objection to this title.
    Opinions are something interesting. I consider that Batgirl has some of the best art of the new 52, it's dark, expressive and beautiful. Plus, although the title started average, it has been getting better in recent issues.

  8. #53
    Senior Member Statham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Er, no. The most recognizable paraplegic character is definitely Charles Xavier mostly because being in the incredible popular X-Men franchise and exposed in cartoons and movies. Outside of comics few people know about Oracle since she has'nt been on that many cartoons and non existant in movies, it does'nt matter if she's the most likable of the two if most people don't know her.
    And yet plenty of disabled people have come out in support of the Oracle iteration of Barbara Gordon. Xavier barely applies as a disabled character anymore because he's in and out of the damn chair every five seconds. Oracle spent over twenty years dealing with it.

  9. #54
    Who Rules The Night StDumas's Avatar
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    Don't forget about covers, either. IMO, Batgirl #2 has one of the best covers of all the New 52 issues so far. Actually, they've all be awesome.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statham View Post
    And yet plenty of disabled people have come out in support of the Oracle iteration of Barbara Gordon. Xavier barely applies as a disabled character anymore because he's in and out of the damn chair every five seconds. Oracle spent over twenty years dealing with it.
    You're not dealing with his point: Xavier is far more recognizable. Also, in his most recognizable form, he's not getting out of the chair every five seconds.

  11. #56
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    Xavier was represented in a fairly recent, fairly popular series of films. I am also willing to bet that more people who read the books saw the film, where as not as many people who saw the film are avid bookies. I am simply suggesting that in the most popular portrayal... by Patrick Stewart
    Code:
    (A STARSHIP CAPTIAN!!!)
    Makes him more recognizable and broader figurehead than Oracle. And that in that role he was a strong and admirable character.

  12. #57
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pow! View Post
    Xavier was represented in a fairly recent, fairly popular series of films. I am also willing to bet that more people who read the books saw the film, where as not as many people who saw the film are avid bookies. I am simply suggesting that in the most popular portrayal... by Patrick Stewart
    Code:
    (A STARSHIP CAPTIAN!!!)
    Makes him more recognizable and broader figurehead than Oracle. And that in that role he was a strong and admirable character.
    I think some of the detractors issues though is quite simply that Xavier doesn't have a nice rack
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    I think some of the detractors issues though is quite simply that Xavier doesn't have a nice rack
    Oh please.

    By your logic, Babsgirl fans prefer her to Oracle because she has more chances to show her butt. See? I can make stupid generalizations too!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Oh please.

    By your logic, Babsgirl fans prefer her to Oracle because she has more chances to show her butt. See? I can make stupid generalizations too!
    I've always liked Babs' butt no matter her secret identity and Ed Benes always found a way to show her figure even when she was in a wheelchair.

    Your argument is flawed my friend.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    I think some of the detractors issues though is quite simply that Xavier doesn't have a nice rack
    Well.... Have you seen Patrick Stewart shirtless lately?... Just saying, he is easily the finest starship captain .... ever.

    However I don't think that any comic publisher would bank on the sexualization of the handicapped.

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