Batgirl by Gail Simone / What is your verdict?

[Cowtools]

There are many things I like about the new Batgirl book: I like the fact that it tied the first arc to Batgirl's post-traumatic stress and didn't dodge the issue. I like the little touches that Gail Smone brings to the support cast. I also like the fact that Babs is portrayed as an underdog and not some wunderkind like I was initially afraid of.

But that's mostly outweighed by the stuff that's irritating or just flat-out bad:
The art is just too grim and jagged looking.
The narration is inconsistent; sometimes Babs sounds like a teen girl, sometimes she sounds like a middle aged woman.
The first villain's motivation was pretty forced in trying to connect to Babs' backstory, and his M.O. was pretty silly. (But that's probably the art. Imagine what JH Williams could've done with a villain whose M.O. is mirrors).
It's unnecessarily brutal in the depiction of violence.
The roommate come across as an unpleasant person, and Babs' romance with her physical therapist seems 'icky'.

But overall, it's just not very fun. Unlike... uh... a certain other now cancelled book.

This just isn't the Babs I came to know and love through a decade of Batman and Birds Of Prey comics. She's no longer the wise, experienced, no-BS, 'big sister', guardian figure that stood toe-to-toe with Batman.

To me, 'Batgirl' comes across as 'just another' costumed vigilante book. Nothing really horrible, but nothing stands out. The only thing that distinguishes it is that it stars the supposed 'iconic' version of Batgirl. And that isn't enough to keep me invested.

I'll keep reading it for the near future, but in digital because it's cheaper.

[Godlike13]

Unlike... uh... a certain other now cancelled book.

Well why would it even want to be like... uh... a certain other book that got cancelled?

[DarkKnghtJared]

It's unnecessarily brutal in the depiction of violence.

Really? I honestly can't think of any instance of hardcore violence in this book, outside of the "prologue" in the first issue with Mirror suffocating the guy with a water hose.

The roommate come across as an unpleasant person, and Babs' romance with her physical therapist seems 'icky'.

How has she been unpleasant? The only thing I can think of that wigged me out with her was her serial killer grin when she was admiring the cutlery set she got for X-Mas.

And I hardly count the one date we've seen with her physical therapist a "romance." I mean hell, if it weren't for her asking Alyssa for a dress, I would think it would have been a lunch with a friend.

But overall, it's just not very fun. Unlike... uh... a certain other now cancelled book.

Well, it's not as "funny" as Steph's book, which is what I'm assuming you're talking about (I don't think that would count as a "now cancelled book," since it's been cancelled for almost half a year now), but I think fun is definitely a sound descriptor.

This just isn't the Babs I came to know and love through a decade of Batman and Birds Of Prey comics. She's no longer the wise, experience, no-BS, 'big sister', guardian figure that stood toe-to-toe with Batman.

She's also no longer the manipulative, paranoid, emotionless, almost amoral and many times rolling plot device. While there were definitely some great moments with her as Oracle, I do think what we have now is a more pure, likable, sympathetic, and, ultimately, stronger character.

[ArnoldoAAD]

Well why would it want to be like... uh... a certain other book that got cancelled?

cause it was awesome, and funny, and well written, and had good villains and a great supporting cast
unlike... uh... a certain other book that got launched


assuming that this is powergirl what we are talking about by the canceled title
seriously Palmotti´s and Winick´s run were Awesome

[ArnoldoAAD]

She's also no longer the manipulative, paranoid, emotionless, almost amoral and many times rolling plot device.

what!
did you read last chp
how she treats her own mother so cold and emotionless
and is manipulative with Nightwing, also paranoid with him and bruce
amoral she doesnt even trust her own roommate with her secret

While there were definitely some great moments with her as Oracle, I do think what we have now is a more pure, likable, sympathetic, and, ultimately, stronger character.

nah

[Cowtools]

This is as good a place as any to posit a theory:

People have often pegged Gail Simone as one of the best writers for women characters. This is definitely true. But I think that's more of a by-product of her real strength as a writer.

If you look at her comics that get unanimously good reviews (Birds Of Prey, Secret Six) and compare them to her comics that get mixed reviews (Batgirl, Wonder Woman), the difference between them is that her best books are team books.

Essentially I think Gail Simone writes best when she's handling teams. Especially ones whose personalities clash. The best parts of Birds Of Prey were those that involved characters bouncing off each other: Canary & Oracle, Oracle & Huntress, Canary & Shiva, etc... And Secret Six drew a lot of it's acclaim for incorporating such a diverse range of characters.

Gail is really good at devising stories that are driven by or related to a character's backstory or their deep-seated motivations. And she's able to bring these themes to the fore by having the characters converse in natural-feeling dialogue.

When she doesn't have multiple characters, she reverts to verbose narration and too-obvious attempts to create villains that reflect the characters, ala Mirror and Genocide.

I think the reason Batgirl feels so forced is that Barbara is back to being a lone hero and has no one to bounce off. I thought the Nightwing issue was the best so far because it did have that aspect.

Thoughts?

[Cowtools]

assuming that this is powergirl what we are talking about by the canceled title
seriously Palmotti´s and Winick´s run were Awesome

Absolutely! That book was incredible.

[Godlike13]

cause it was awesome, and funny, and well written, and had good villains and a great supporting cast
unlike... uh... a certain other book that got launched

And look where that got it. So its probably better the book does its own thing, and be its own thing, and not be like something that under performed and got canceled.
Some of those who liked the canceled title might not like it, and even be left bitter, really really bitter , but what are u gonna do. Not everything is for everybody.

assuming that this is powergirl what we are talking about by the canceled title
seriously Palmotti´s and Winick´s run were Awesome

I liked it, but unfortunately it couldn't get more to like it too. Or even care enough to give it a shot.

[Godlike13]

This is as good a place as any to posit a theory:

People have often pegged Gail Simone as one of the best writers for women characters. This is definitely true. But I think that's more of a by-product of her real strength as a writer.

If you look at her comics that get unanimously good reviews (Birds Of Prey, Secret Six) and compare them to her comics that get mixed reviews (Batgirl, Wonder Woman), the difference between them is that her best books are team books.

Essentially I think Gail Simone writes best when she's handling teams. Especially ones whose personalities clash. The best parts of Birds Of Prey were those that involved characters bouncing off each other: Canary & Oracle, Oracle & Huntress, Canary & Shiva, etc... And Secret Six drew a lot of it's acclaim for incorporating such a diverse range of characters.

Gail is really good at devising stories that are driven by or related to a character's backstory or their deep-seated motivations. And she's able to bring these themes to the fore by having the characters converse in natural-feeling dialogue.

When she doesn't have multiple characters, she reverts to verbose narration and too-obvious attempts to create villains that reflect the characters, ala Mirror and Genocide.

I think the reason Batgirl feels so forced is that Barbara is back to being a lone hero and has no one to bounce off. I thought the Nightwing issue was the best so far because it did have that aspect.

Thoughts?

Well personally i liked her WW, and like her Batgirl, but didn't really care for her SS. Her BoP was great though, well her first stint, the second was not quite as good IMO.

[DarkKnghtJared]

what!
did you read last chp
how she treats her own mother so cold and emotionless
and is manipulative with Nightwing, also paranoid with him and bruce
amoral she doesnt even trust her own roommate with her secret

Mom, to me, made sense--she comes back to see Babs unannounced after leaving her and her father, I can see where she would be hesitant to want to deal with her. I'm certain that's going to change within the next few issues, though.

With Nightwing, that wasn't manipulative, at least not in the same way she was as Oracle. In this book, she asks Dick to give her some space to finish what she started with Mirror. As Oracle, she practically dicked around and messed with Huntress purely out of jealousy.

And if not trusting someone you know with your secret identity is amoral, then pretty much every superhero in the history of existence is amoral.

And when I talk about Oracle being amoral, I'm talking about her introduction being helping out a team of super-villains ran by a sociopath government agent run kill missions.

This is as good a place as any to posit a theory:

People have often pegged Gail Simone as one of the best writers for women characters. This is definitely true. But I think that's more of a by-product of her real strength as a writer.

If you look at her comics that get unanimously good reviews (Birds Of Prey, Secret Six) and compare them to her comics that get mixed reviews (Batgirl, Wonder Woman), the difference between them is that her best books are team books.

Essentially I think Gail Simone writes best when she's handling teams. Especially ones whose personalities clash. The best parts of Birds Of Prey were those that involved characters bouncing off each other: Canary & Oracle, Oracle & Huntress, Canary & Shiva, etc... And Secret Six drew a lot of it's acclaim for incorporating such a diverse range of characters.

Gail is really good at devising stories that are driven by or related to a character's backstory or their deep-seated motivations. And she's able to bring these themes to the fore by having the characters converse in natural-feeling dialogue.

When she doesn't have multiple characters, she reverts to verbose narration and too-obvious attempts to create villains that reflect the characters, ala Mirror and Genocide.

I think the reason Batgirl feels so forced is that Barbara is back to being a lone hero and has no one to bounce off. I thought the Nightwing issue was the best so far because it did have that aspect.

Thoughts?

I can sorta see that--I know with Wonder Woman, the book was at it's best when she was teaming up with characters like Black Canary and Power Girl. Hopefully as the series progresses we can get a more expanded supporting cast to help with that.

Absolutely! That book was incredible.

Okay, if you're comparing this to Power Girl, then yeah, I'll definitely concede there.

[ArnoldoAAD]

This is as good a place as any to posit a theory:

People have often pegged Gail Simone as one of the best writers for women characters. This is definitely true. But I think that's more of a by-product of her real strength as a writer.

If you look at her comics that get unanimously good reviews (Birds Of Prey, Secret Six) and compare them to her comics that get mixed reviews (Batgirl, Wonder Woman), the difference between them is that her best books are team books.

Essentially I think Gail Simone writes best when she's handling teams. Especially ones whose personalities clash. The best parts of Birds Of Prey were those that involved characters bouncing off each other: Canary & Oracle, Oracle & Huntress, Canary & Shiva, etc... And Secret Six drew a lot of it's acclaim for incorporating such a diverse range of characters.

Gail is really good at devising stories that are driven by or related to a character's backstory or their deep-seated motivations. And she's able to bring these themes to the fore by having the characters converse in natural-feeling dialogue.

When she doesn't have multiple characters, she reverts to verbose narration and too-obvious attempts to create villains that reflect the characters, ala Mirror and Genocide.

I think the reason Batgirl feels so forced is that Barbara is back to being a lone hero and has no one to bounce off. I thought the Nightwing issue was the best so far because it did have that aspect.

Thoughts?

I think you are correct on this

Absolutely! That book was incredible.

yeah it was incredible =)

And look where that got it. So its probably better the book does its own thing, and be its own thing, and not be like something that under performed and got canceled.

being fair ALL DC was underperforming
thats why we got a relaunch

[Dr. Hurt]

There are many things I like about the new Batgirl book: I like the fact that it tied the first arc to Batgirl's post-traumatic stress and didn't dodge the issue. I like the little touches that Gail Smone brings to the support cast. I also like the fact that Babs is portrayed as an underdog and not some wunderkind like I was initially afraid of.

But that's mostly outweighed by the stuff that's irritating or just flat-out bad:
The art is just too grim and jagged looking.
The narration is inconsistent; sometimes Babs sounds like a teen girl, sometimes she sounds like a middle aged woman.
The first villain's motivation was pretty forced in trying to connect to Babs' backstory, and his M.O. was pretty silly. (But that's probably the art. Imagine what JH Williams could've done with a villain whose M.O. is mirrors).
It's unnecessarily brutal in the depiction of violence.
The roommate come across as an unpleasant person, and Babs' romance with her physical therapist seems 'icky'.

But overall, it's just not very fun. Unlike... uh... a certain other now cancelled book.

This just isn't the Babs I came to know and love through a decade of Batman and Birds Of Prey comics. She's no longer the wise, experienced, no-BS, 'big sister', guardian figure that stood toe-to-toe with Batman.

To me, 'Batgirl' comes across as 'just another' costumed vigilante book. Nothing really horrible, but nothing stands out. The only thing that distinguishes it is that it stars the supposed 'iconic' version of Batgirl. And that isn't enough to keep me invested.

I'll keep reading it for the near future, but in digital because it's cheaper.

Cowtools you're one of my favourite posters! I agree with this post!

[Dr. Hurt]

Really? I honestly can't think of any instance of hardcore violence in this book, outside of the "prologue" in the first issue with Mirror suffocating the guy with a water hose.

There was also that gang that kidnapped that family and they gave them pics of their previous victims to show them how horribly they would cut them and their kids. Meanwhile they were suiting up in their surgery suits while laughing hysterically. Babs saved the day, but just seeing those people getting ready to carve up a family... I was like, "is this really a BG book?"

Unnecessarily creepy and morbid. And besides, shouldnt you be able to give the book to a girl? Or is BG a serious and grownup book now?

How has she been unpleasant? The only thing I can think of that wigged me out with her was her serial killer grin when she was admiring the cutlery set she got for X-Mas.

She wasnt unpleasant, she was a piece of cardboard. Oh and she was REBELIOUS because nothing says revolution like spray painting your house's INTERIOR walls.

You know who was really unpleasant? Babs.

In this book, she asks Dick to give her some space to finish what she started with Mirror.

Yeah, let more people die because you're too arrogant to ask for help. "No Dick, i want to handle this myself and screw all the victims."

What a *****.

[ArnoldoAAD]

Mom, to me, made sense--she comes back to see Babs unannounced after leaving her and her father, I can see where she would be hesitant to want to deal with her. I'm certain that's going to change within the next few issues, though.

With Nightwing, that wasn't manipulative, at least not in the same way she was as Oracle. In this book, she asks Dick to give her some space to finish what she started with Mirror. As Oracle, she practically dicked around and messed with Huntress purely out of jealousy.

And if not trusting someone you know with your secret identity is amoral, then pretty much every superhero in the history of existence is amoral.

And when I talk about Oracle being amoral, I'm talking about her introduction being helping out a team of super-villains ran by a sociopath government agent run kill missions.

ok you got me on pretty much all of those i will justcounter like this

I think that if you feel that Oracle was emotionless, which i dont think that btw, then this batgirl its the complete other side of the spectrum

she beat up Nightwing cause she was distrustful of him cause she thought he might not be on her back after ALL that they had been through
she selfishly choose to back away from him, and refuse his help for pure pride

she sees her mom after a long time in a completely new chp of her life and the all stretch of that relationship goes back to a child who is angry for the separation of her parents

if anything this is a barb that is even more childish than the one on Year One

her relationship with her roommate is, nonexistent really, I dont dislike the roommate but i dont give a **** about her and i feel that Barb its exactly the same
this is a character that i have No doubts will completely disappear once Gail´s run is done, and no one will remember her, hell i dont even remember her name right now

This Barb is too emotional and irrational, that doesnt make her more likeable or compelling
and as impossible as it might sounds its even more depressing than when she was in a wheelchair

Okay, if you're comparing this to Power Girl, then yeah, I'll definitely concede there.

yeah i was, i could easily say Steph batgirl but lets just play with the fact that we lost a fun book and this is not fun

and i do think that Winick run was fun as well as emotional

[Dr. Hurt]

ok you got me on pretty much all of those i will justcounter like this

I think that if you feel that Oracle was emotionless, which i dont think that btw, then this batgirl its the complete other side of the spectrum

she beat up Nightwing cause she was distrustful of him cause she thought he might not be on her back after ALL that they had been through
she selfishly choose to back away from him, and refuse his help for pure pride

she sees her mom after a long time in a completely new chp of her life and the all stretch of that relationship goes back to a child who is angry for the separation of her parents

if anything this is a barb that is even more childish than the one on Year One

her relationship with her roommate is, nonexistent really, I dont dislike the roommate but i dont give a **** about her and i feel that Barb its exactly the same
this is a character that i have No doubts will completely disappear once Gail´s run is done, and no one will remember her, hell i dont even remember her name right now

This Barb is too emotional and irrational, that doesnt make her more likeable or compelling
and as impossible as it might sounds its even more depressing than when she was in a wheelchair

Nice post!