Downtown Khazan: The Restaurant At The End Of The Omniverse

[WyldCard4]

Ok.

Show me some proof that I'm lying to myself.

Real proof, with other sources backing you up (sources that can be read and confirmed, so I don't know you're just making things up).

No, displaying a link or two does not constitute real proof. You'll need to actually demonstrate in writing that you understand what's involved in whatever it is that led you to your conclusion, and you'll have to persuade me that all of this isn't something that will be reversed in some psychological study or scientific research experiment done in the near future.

Until you do this, your replies literally mean nothing to me.

As long as you clarify what you mean, so I can rebut it. I've engaged in too many debates that come down to semantics and differences in style.

So, explain what you believe the difference is between being something and pretending to be something. That's the most important. Second, explain what you mean by choosing who you are. Then, we might cover something.

Basically, I think that an action is part of you. Everything you do is real, just different parts of you. A person can be many things at once. That is the basics of what I mean when I say we are who we pretend to be. The person we are pretending to be is one of our identities, a part of who we are. We need a model in our brain to understand something, and to make that model, it has to be part of us.

As for choice, not diving in quite yet, but I mean that we do not simply determine who we are based on what we wish we are. We have qualities and natures that exist independently of our own will. Just because we don't want to hate someone doesn't mean we don't. Same with love.

Now, what part of this do you disagree with? I will reply later, as I have other things to do tonight.

[Beadle]

Damn, I hate those post-weekend catching up posts. This could take a while.

As a note, that is correct. I may debate your terminology a bit, but it is a valid way of interpreting my preferences. I believe a Player Character should be an important part of the campaign. I view this for any character which we identify with, hero or villain, RPG or other form of media. I do not like hopeless settings.

Wow, you would HATE playing Call of Cthulhu.

I did the wrong name drop (no way I coulda known he was working for my country's sworn enemies).

I was also responsible for the plan that split the party, forcing us to fight this NPC with only 4 of our 6 viable combatants.

Fortunately, I open rolled twice in a row on the same turn Sharp pulled his 'use all my fatigue to boost my best single-target tech' attack.

But not before Nik's character suffered a permanently crippled arm. I'm sorry Corim! ;_;

At least till our healer illusionist, MunchKing's character, levels up again.

But on the plus side we all levelled!

You guys did really well. But I thought there were 7 of you....? Are you not counting Bill as being a viable combatant? I mean, yeah, he's a ten-year old boy and everything, but he has awesomely mighty summoning powers. He could summon something as big as..... as...... well, OK, maybe an iguana would have been a stretch for level 1 Bill, and he'd certainly have struggled to control it after summoning.

What's the business about Siriel's RPG not being about saving the world from burning?

The world is a complex one. It doesn't have ONE problem to be solved. It has many. Some of them involve the fate of the world itself. Some involve the fate of a race or empire in that world Some involve the fate of a city, town, village, or caravan. Some may involve the fate of a single person. And they're all twined together.

The fate of one person could very well be as important as the world itself, in the end, and linked to it. Which, in my opinion, is how it should be.

Not the people who matter? Our player characters, right now, are the people who are the last hope of getting their hands upon an artifact that could potentially cost the lives of thousands, tip the balance of power in a war between empires, and...we don't know what else. Yet.

Just because there are people far more potent than us in this world, that there are people far more influential in this world, that we won't match those people ever, doesn't mean we aren't in the spotlight for this. Particular. Situation. And the one that follows, in-game, because this isn't going to be a game where we just 'finish this story, game ends'.

When was it said that our characters aren't struggling to be the best they can be? To press onward, and find out where we stand in the world, to push for change, to make a difference?

Just because we're not solving all the problems of the world doesn't mean we're not important to it.

I think I've just found an enormous difference in potential play-style, here.

Yeah, Anima doesn't only work at low power levels, but the characters are still, in their own way, "special". In fact the Core Rules intro pretty much says that PCs are supposed to be special.

But they don't start off as being among the most powerful in Gaia, obviously. Doesn't stop them getting there though, if you play long enough. Theoretically, there's nothing stopping the characters from reaching god-killing levels. By that time though, you've got storytelling problems. When you've reached the point where the only beings you can face that might give you a challenge are Nemesis, Lazarus, the most ancient dragons and the gods, it's pretty much ceased to be roleplaying. It's "here's a big fight - go nuts", which is fun on occasion, but not the basis for a campaign. It's either that or you end up commanding countries and leading whole armies into battle, which becomes a glorified game of Risk (I mean, I love Risk, but I wouldn't want an ongoing game of it. A few hours, max.).

I already know in what kind of quests I'd end a potential Anima game that I had which reached the 13+ levels.
Not any solid plans, mind you, but a general idea.
And yes, it'd end around those levels. I just don't see myself GMing a game where the PCs are that relatively powerful.

Yeah, I can see why.

Hey, if we kept playing for 10 years, maybe we'd get to level 20 and start fighting The Imperium.

Siriel would have them all spontaneously combust. He refers to them as Those Guys I Hate. :)

Hahaha, no. I hate those guys. (And there are no good ways to fight Imperium. Even if you're powerful enough to win, the resulting fight would probably collapse Gaia.)

*shudder* The more I read about them, the more I'm with Siriel on this. Jurgand agents turn up, have ridiculously powerful magitech armour that means one agent can destroy an army, and yet the Imperium don't really interact with Gaia outside of that. You can't have much of a story with an organisation that you'll never get to interact with, and that only turns up when you really mess the planet up, and usually just to go all plot-devicey on you and yell "I win because..... Imperium! Shut up!"

Tasha would be able to solo Kisidan, Corim's acrobatic score would let him casually fly by spinning his legs helicopter-style, Garon would break the armour table, Kamala would give Cupid a run for his money in the 'arrow through the heart' business, Taran could juggle a thousand eggs while remaining unseen, Bill would sommon and bind the Dragon Lords of the Inanimate Forest and Avelyn would rally the armies of the entire Old Continent.

As for Group 2, Jared would finally be living up to (and possibly even exceeding) his own hype, Ardelyn would have forged the greatest battle armour and weapons known to man, Preston would be effectively invisible (assuming he doesn't keep fumbling his stealth), Buffalo would have offended every living being on Gaia (and several that aren't living), Simon would be leading a massive army utterly confident of their ability to beat anyone, and..... Solomon will still probably suck at most things, but the style.... the man would have more style than any being ever.

And in non-Anima news.....

Honestly, the least of his problem would be getting it in his eyes.

To be honest, with industrial-concentration HF in the water supply, the biggest problem for most people would be..... a lack of a water supply. No HF would ever get to anyone's homes or businesses, because as soon as it left the water processing place, it would eat through any pipes, reservoirs, valves etc and just leach into the soil. So most people would just have no water.

Great Britain has an enormous amount of very specific accents. It's pretty cool, really.

Canada? Outside of Quebec and Newfoundland, which have a few distinct accents of their own, there's a minor East Coast accent, and regions sometimes have slight shifts (Ottawa Valley, for example). I'm sure there are some more, but they're not known.

I've got to admit, outside of Newfies and Quebec, I'm not familiar enough with Canadian accents to distinguish one from another. And accents are something I'm pretty hot on. I've given classes on them to groups of inexperienced actors. But I just don't know enough Canadian ones.

Britain though.... yeah, we're pretty insane that way. There are areas in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland where the accents change every 5 miles or so. And significantly, as well. If you did a tour round old-school Lancashire (including what is now Greater Manchester and Merseyside), the accent shifts are extraordinary.

"Brittish Accent"?

That makes about as much sense as saying American Accent in a room with a Texan and a New Yorker.

Probably even less sense than that. I'd say there were MUCH more similarities between Texas, New York, Alabama and Cajun than there are between, say.... Belfast, Peterhead, Dudley, Newcastle, Liverpool, Carmarthen, Chelmsford and Penzance. Some parts of Britain just plain can't understand a word of what some other areas are saying.

The four American accents I listed are still discernibly American, and mostly comprehensible. A thick East-Coast-of-Scotland, Geordie, Black Country or Belfast accent is almost impenetrable to most people; even people who live only 50-100 miles away.

(Well, technically Belfast isn't in "Britain", but the distinction is so confusing as to be irrelevant for these purposes.)

[WyldCard4]

[QUOTE=Beadle;15090466]
Wow, you would HATE playing Call of Cthulhu.

I consider most Cthulhu stuff to just be silly, to be honest. I have heard excellent justifications of Lovecraft's core work, and enjoyed that, but I actually don't think it usually translates well elsewhere. Lovecraft has a quite specific style, and I think that a weird handful of his tropes have been pulled and mutated into popular culture in a way I rarely find intriguing. Plenty of exceptions, but it's like Lord of the Rings. People take things from the imitators that really get boring after a while. For example, fantasy elves. A species of slightly superior human like creatures is far less interesting than the originals were. I think there's a lot of things like that out in the RPG realms, to be honest.

[Beadle]

I consider most Cthulhu stuff to just be silly, to be honest. I have heard excellent justifications of Lovecraft's core work, and enjoyed that, but I actually don't think it usually translates well elsewhere. Lovecraft has a quite specific style, and I think that a weird handful of his tropes have been pulled and mutated into popular culture in a way I rarely find intriguing. Plenty of exceptions, but it's like Lord of the Rings. People take things from the imitators that really get boring after a while. For example, fantasy elves. A species of slightly superior human like creatures is far less interesting than the originals were. I think there's a lot of things like that out in the RPG realms, to be honest.

Well, I wasn't specifically referring to the subject matter; more to the general style of game which requires you to investigate stuff, but without actually coming into contact with any of the various eldritch abominations (i.e. the big players in the mythos of the game).

Because if you do, you will die. Horribly.

I suppose some of the Palladium games would be more up your street. In those you really are special compared to the average NPC.

[Sharpandpointies]

Been away in Florida the last week.

My uncle had a brain bleed, was in a coma, and was nonresponsive for a few days.

He managed to make a startling recovery though, enough to wake up, have the respitory tube moved out of his throat, and was even able to say a few words before we had to leave. He also seemed to remember us, and his daughters and wife, so things are looking far better then they were, that's for sure.

Good news that there's the potential for him recovering. And glad to see you back safe. :)

[Sol M]

Been away in Florida the last week.

My uncle had a brain bleed, was in a coma, and was nonresponsive for a few days.

He managed to make a startling recovery though, enough to wake up, have the respitory tube moved out of his throat, and was even able to say a few words before we had to leave. He also seemed to remember us, and his daughters and wife, so things are looking far better then they were, that's for sure.

Goodness, that must have been scary.

Good that he's feeling better now though.

[Froggy]

5 pgs in five hours

i got thiisss

[Sharkerbob]

Did someone say Palladium?

Hmm... A Rifts-type game would be kinda sweet.

[Sharpandpointies]

I suppose some of the Palladium games would be more up your street. In those you really are special compared to the average NPC.

Lots of games pull this kind of thing as well. There are plenty of games on the market now that actually use different rules to differentiate 'normals' and Player-character-level people.

Palladium doesn't go quite that far, but the power level difference between the Average Joe and the Player Characters in most Palladium games is somewhat extreme. Game depending - there wasn't a HUGE gap in 'Beyond the Supernatural', but even if one only gets into the *shudders* Ninja and Superspies, yeah, normals are nobodies.

Similarly D&D (3.X and its varients) - the average joe gets shuttled into an NPC class that sucks by comparison to anything the PC's will use.

Anima gets around this by Gnosis, which not only indicates impact on the world, but potential for growth and capacity to open-ended roll (it's not a HUGE difference rules-wise, but it's unlikely to find someone 'normal' with a level beyond 3 or so).

Mutants and Masterminds has a very specific split between normals/minion-level characters and Really Important People, rules-wise.

Etc.

I'm personally not hugely fond of 'the Rules say these guys are actually superior when going by the numbers'. The Anima thing I can live with, because outside of RP stuff, the difference between a Natura 0 person (that Blacksmith on the street) and a Natura 10 person (PC's) is that the Natura 0 dude only gets one Open Roll, whereas the PC can keep open-rolling as long as he makes the right rolls. This crops up something like 1% of the time. The rest is pure fluff - that Blacksmith probably won't stumble into bizarre, machiavellian plots, find ancient items, or reach a legendary level of blacksmithing and forge a mighty sword whose legend lives down the ages. He'll lead a normal life. At least, that's how it's suggested, but there's nothing stopping the GM from tossing said blacksmith into all kinds of mayham. :)

On the other end of the spectrum, we hit Exalted, where 'normals' are basically dirt compared to the Exalted and can be mown down in droves simply because there are special rules for Exalted-level people fighting against normals.

M&M, same deal, which is one thing that bugs me about M&M.

[Ghost]

I really should stop trying to perform surgery on myself.

[Sharkerbob]

I really should stop trying to perform surgery on myself.

I have faith in you, Ghost. You show that weak, human flesh whose boss!

[Sharpandpointies]

You guys did really well. But I thought there were 7 of you....? Are you not counting Bill as being a viable combatant? I mean, yeah, he's a ten-year old boy and everything, but he has awesomely mighty summoning powers. He could summon something as big as..... as...... well, OK, maybe an iguana would have been a stretch for level 1 Bill, and he'd certainly have struggled to control it after summoning.

In terms of people involved in the actual fight, there were:

1. Avelyn
2. Garon
3. Corim
4. Tasha

That's it. Bill was there, but busy trying to summon something, Taran and Kamala were back at the camp.

End result: Alesky dead, Corim out (arm destroyed, Taran's magic might be able to bring it back at some point in the future), Avelyn injured, Garon injured, Tasha exhausted.

And we got rather lucky.

That's 4:1 odds, all of the four being fighter-types, one of them wearing artifact armor, one of them jacked-up and firing off dominion techs.

Sooo...the moral is, don't attack people more than a level higher than yourself in Anima unless forced to do so. :)

[Nik Hasta]

Sooo...the moral is, don't attack people more than a level higher than yourself in Anima unless forced to do so. :)

A moral that we had iterated to us with Casus prior to this fight but somehow didn't learn.

[Sharkerbob]

All this RPG talk about characters and relative consequence to the world is making me wonder... what sorts of (non-High School) RPGs could we have that involve action, adventure, and character without the world being "at stake?"

Hmm...

Perhaps a treasure hunt on a Mysterious Island?

Perhaps trying to ship water from a continent of ice to a barren desert land that people are trying to colonize?

Perhaps cleaning out some really freakin' rank stables before the stench drives away the local tourist trade?

Perhaps trying to win a martial arts competition to gain a prize?

Perhaps searching for an exploration party that has gone missing in a Forbidden Continent?

Perhaps searching for the Booze of the Gods, because everyone's gotten so high in level, that their Constitution stat is so high they can't get drunk off mortal beer?

[Sharpandpointies]

A moral that we had iterated to us with Casus prior to this fight but somehow didn't learn.

Sometimes a lesson needs to be hammered home. Several times. :) Hopefully we have it now.

All this RPG talk about characters and relative consequence to the world is making me wonder... what sorts of (non-High School) RPGs could we have that involve action, adventure, and character without the world being "at stake?"

Hmm...

Perhaps a treasure hunt on a Mysterious Island?

Perhaps trying to ship water from a continent of ice to a barren desert land that people are trying to colonize?

Perhaps cleaning out some really freakin' rank stables before the stench drives away the local tourist trade?

Perhaps trying to win a martial arts competition to gain a prize?

Perhaps searching for an exploration party that has gone missing in a Forbidden Continent?

Perhaps searching for the Booze of the Gods, because everyone's gotten so high in level, that their Constitution stat is so high they can't get drunk off mortal beer?

All good ones.

Let's toss on stuff that has immediate, smaller consequences. Look at entertainment. Check out 'Seven Samurai' - a bunch of guys banding together to save a village from bandits.

No world-shaking consequences here, but a lot of innocents being victimized.