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  1. #16
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    Great article i agree with everything it said.

    Was especially impressed with how comfortable Max Model was with revealing his sexuality like it's no big deal (because it shouldn't be)

    But i think Northstar did a lot of good even if his coming out was more forced than the new ones it was a different time and Northstar is not exactly known for being shy or anything.

  2. #17
    Wonder Woman Museum AndyMangels's Avatar
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    I've done functionally the same thing as the Daredevil appearances in comics and books I've written for years, but because I'm openly gay, everyone chalks it up to a "Gay Agenda." This ignores the fact that I've also featured many positive religious characters, and people of different races/nationalities, and handicapped/capable people, as well as just your average WASPs.

    In the early 1990s, I had a lesbian couple in Nightmares on Elm Street, a gay couple in Child's Play: The Series, and etc. In books, I've had GLBT characters in the Star Trek and Roswell books I co-wrote. Hollywood cared far less about the inclusion of GLBT characters in their licensed works than most would expect.

  3. #18
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Great article.
    I completely agree on things like the amazing iZombie or the random appearance of gay 'extras' like in Daredevil.

    However I find myself disagreeing with the gay characters in Children's Crusade not getting a chance to shine.
    Billy has easily been the most relevant Young Avenger in the whole series and aside from Wanda, the most important character full stop.
    And it's not like he featured without his sexuality ever being brought up. The first few issues very clearly showed his relationship with Teddy.

    I'm also not so sure how common it is for people to out themselves the way Max Modell did.
    It seems to me coming out is still generally a more stressful experience for most people. A whole confessional thing, rather than making some offhand remark about a present.
    In new york city, especially in a field like he is in, surrounded with young intelligent people it might be exactly the way he would mention it.

    Naming his partner and not giving it a second though.

  4. #19
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LorrieK View Post
    I haven't read it, but it doesn't sound like Max Modell was "coming out". I'm guessing he was already out (although perhaps not every acquaintance or co-worker knows). He was only outed in the sense that Slott was letting the readers know Max is gay. I could be wrong, of course, since I haven't read the issue, but that's how I interpreted the article.
    His sexuality had never been mentioned.

    But you are right he didn't come out, Peter noticed a watch that is important to plot, asked about it and he mentioned "his partner Hector" gave it to him. And that was it. Presumably his coworkers already knew, hes supposed to be well known in universe. So he was only outed to the readers.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    His sexuality had never been mentioned.

    But you are right he didn't come out, Peter noticed a watch that is important to plot, asked about it and he mentioned "his partner Hector" gave it to him. And that was it. Presumably his coworkers already knew, hes supposed to be well known in universe. So he was only outed to the readers.
    I actually haven't read the issue yet either, so I didn't really know the context.

    But my 'objection' wasn't to what Max said or the way he said it anyway.
    It was to the article saying this was the way people out themselves every day. And I don't think that's true for most gay people.

  6. #21
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Great article.
    I completely agree on things like the amazing iZombie or the random appearance of gay 'extras' like in Daredevil.

    However I find myself disagreeing with the gay characters in Children's Crusade not getting a chance to shine.
    Billy has easily been the most relevant Young Avenger in the whole series and aside from Wanda, the most important character full stop.
    And it's not like he featured without his sexuality ever being brought up. The first few issues very clearly showed his relationship with Teddy.

    I'm also not so sure how common it is for people to out themselves the way Max Modell did.
    It seems to me coming out is still generally a more stressful experience for most people. A whole confessional thing, rather than making some offhand remark about a present.
    I also have to say, regarding X-Factor, that Rictor and Shatterstar's relationship is one of the best ongoing subplots in the book. It rarely drives the narrative, but it's there, and what's really nice about it is that it's not so much about "OMG teh gayz!" as it is about two people with such disparate personalities trying to make a relationship work.
    "If you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me." - Alice Roosevelt Longworth, on manners

    "It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose." - Peter David, on life

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P View Post
    I also have to say, regarding X-Factor, that Rictor and Shatterstar's relationship is one of the best ongoing subplots in the book. It rarely drives the narrative, but it's there, and what's really nice about it is that it's not so much about "OMG teh gayz!" as it is about two people with such disparate personalities trying to make a relationship work.
    Yeah, not agreeing with that.
    I actually do think their relationship is written like "OMG the gayz!".
    In fact (and I know I'm in the minority here) I don't like Peter David's writing in general. Not on X-Factor anyway. I have a hard time caring for any of the characters and I find the plot devices overall to be pretty bad.
    I've also massively hated Shatterstar since his first appearance, no matter what his sexuality (which is bi BTW, not gay). So that doesn't help.

  8. #23
    The devil is a gentleman. devildinosaur's Avatar
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    It just warms my heart to know that somewhere, some confused kid coming to grips with his/her sexuality will see a strong character like 'Kevin Keller' and take comfort in it.

  9. #24
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    Actually, Darwyn Cooke, Brad Rader, Cameron Stewart and I had a very commonplace gay couple in Catwoman for my whole run on that book ten years ago, and we won a GLAAD award for it. No big deal was ever made of the fact they were gay, they were never bashed or after school specialed, they were just a sidekick and her girlfriend.

    To toot my own horn, I guess.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    His sexuality had never been mentioned.

    But you are right he didn't come out, Peter noticed a watch that is important to plot, asked about it and he mentioned "his partner Hector" gave it to him. And that was it. Presumably his coworkers already knew, hes supposed to be well known in universe. So he was only outed to the readers.
    To be honest i wasn't even sure if that was him coming out or not because partner can mean a lot of other things besides "my gay/lesbian boy/girlfriend" so i spent like 10 mins just staring at that wondering what he meant LOL.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Brubaker View Post
    Actually, Darwyn Cooke, Brad Rader, Cameron Stewart and I had a very commonplace gay couple in Catwoman for my whole run on that book ten years ago, and we won a GLAAD award for it. No big deal was ever made of the fact they were gay, they were never bashed or after school specialed, they were just a sidekick and her girlfriend.

    To toot my own horn, I guess.
    And you really wrote them well.

    To be honest i kind of miss them right now.

  12. #27
    the very scary socialist tliscord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Brubaker View Post
    Actually, Darwyn Cooke, Brad Rader, Cameron Stewart and I had a very commonplace gay couple in Catwoman for my whole run on that book ten years ago, and we won a GLAAD award for it. No big deal was ever made of the fact they were gay, they were never bashed or after school specialed, they were just a sidekick and her girlfriend.

    To toot my own horn, I guess.
    As well you should.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    But my 'objection' wasn't to what Max said or the way he said it anyway.
    It was to the article saying this was the way people out themselves every day. And I don't think that's true for most gay people.
    Yeah, it's pretty true for most gay people. That's because the older you get and the longer you treat your sexuality as if it's no big thing, the easier it gets to stop worrying about what people think about it and you. Those who have newly admitted it to themselves may make their coming out into a big or small drama--there's a need for psychological release of all that internalizing--but there's a time when coming out becomes so automatic that a casual comment here or a reference that isn't veiled there does just fine.

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