Marvel Females

[Songbird/Diamondback]

It's pretty obvious why they'd use Spidey over Hellcat in a comic book. Same reason why Spider-Man can support a monthly book and movies and video games and cartoons and Hellcat cannot!

And of course, I get that it's a vicious circle. If a character like Hellcat is never given a chance to shine, how can she get the opportunity to show that she can support a monthly book, movies, video games and cartoons?

What you need is one, KILLER push. I'm talking about the ultimate hyped event for a character like Hellcat.

Let me say that I would never, ever buy a Hellcat comic. However, if you got the following:

-An awesome writer (I'll go with Jason Aaron, as I'm loving W&tXM)
-An awesome artist (I'll go with Kev Walker, as he's a new addition to my sig)
-A new costume (Hellcats stupid yellow-costume is just as high on my "hated" comic costume list as Wolverine's $#!%%* costume)
-Run a promotion campaign like Mark Millar is doing for his Millarworld stuff by telling me it's going to be filled with ninjas and aliens and cool weapons and tech and whatnot...

How could I not be intrigued?

I didn't mean her getting her own book, but at least get people interested in her by rearranging the team systems. I mean, does Hawkeye need to be on 4 Avenger teams coming up? Does Spider-Man and Wolverine need to be on so many teams? Why not relocate characters around?

Also, Hellcat's costume is AWESOME!



I mean, she's great because she has a unique personality. She's eccentric, never shuts up, and seems to run off MAJOR ADHD. The reason I threw Hellcat out there is that she's one of Marvel's most colorful personalities for a female character.
Then again, that could be Kathryn Immonen's work.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Actually WW havent been popular for the last decade. She is still more iconic than hulk and wolverine nonetheless. But she is getting alot of recognition from the comics community with the current direction of her book. with regards to the trinity thing, its still batman, superman and wonder woman. green lantern is may or may not be more popular than WW but not more iconic.

Iconic, yes, but when I got into comics, I barely heard a peep about her until the costume change and then the recent (which I hear is VERY good and everyone is pushing me to read it) WW comic.

But I still disagree and say that WW has been overshadowed pretty severely. Most likely because of no movie and that flopped TV show. (Have you seen the pilot? It's like the show came out of the 90's!)

[Deep_Sleeper]

No, I hear you! I get what you're trying to say (and no, Hawkeye should not be in 4 different books. Spider-Man on the other hand...)

I will have to disagree with you on Hellcat's "awesome costume" It's awful! No doubt if a real-life girl were to wear something like that, I'd be drooling all over the place, but in comics...a costume needs more personality, better colours)

I'm looking at some of the cool stuff that Marvel has (there's a discussion going on about how great Iron Fist & the Immortal Weapons are) where they are not attributing enough attention to.

I think Marvel is playing it really, really safe and that is such a shame. When they were doing really cutting edge stuff, they were awesome. Not every single attempt was a success, but you could really see the energy.

They have lost a lot of that energy, IMO. Yeah, they are producing some really good books, but it could be so much better.

If you're going to put She-Hulk into an Avengers book, make sure she gets a really cool costume and make sure she doesn't get outshined by someone who has all her powers and more (Thor). If you're going to put Hellcat on the New Avengers, make sure that you really show off what she can do and not just resort to what Bendis is doing with everyone on the book (everyone is just punching stuff! WOW! Creative!!! /sarcasm) If you're going to put Storm in the Avengers, make sure she gets a chance to be front and center (seriously, Captain America/Iron Man/Thor...you have a bunch of stuff going for you).

[Songbird/Diamondback]

No, I hear you! I get what you're trying to say (and no, Hawkeye should not be in 4 different books. Spider-Man on the other hand...)

Hawkeye is in Avengers Solo, Avengers, Avengers Academy about to be in Secret Avengers and Avengers Assemble, Captain America and Hawkeye, and Avenging Spider-Man. Not to mention Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Seriously, that's a lot of Hawkeye pushing.

I will have to disagree with you on Hellcat's "awesome costume" It's awful! No doubt if a real-life girl were to wear something like that, I'd be drooling all over the place, but in comics...a costume needs more personality, better colours)

I guess I just like it cause I like it.
But one thing that really BUGS me about comics of late, look how many costumes are primarily black, white, or red. Take a look at the .1 cover and tell me we aren't having a bad pattern of costumes looking the same.
I think colors like yellow, pink, and others should be used more to break the monotony of the generic black and red.

I'm looking at some of the cool stuff that Marvel has (there's a discussion going on about how great Iron Fist & the Immortal Weapons are) where they are not attributing enough attention to.

Well, at least Iron Fist has New Avengers and is getting a boost with Defenders, which is great. Isn't he a possible movie franchise?

I think Marvel is playing it really, really safe and that is such a shame. When they were doing really cutting edge stuff, they were awesome. Not every single attempt was a success, but you could really see the energy.

Bad economy, blah blah.
Again, the moment the Avengers movie comes and go, Marvel needs to change its game plan. All the hype has been leading to it, and when it passes, the interest in big heroes getting together won't last anymore.

They have lost a lot of that energy, IMO. Yeah, they are producing some really good books, but it could be so much better.

Agreed. We kinda hit a low point post Fear Itself (which was already tremendously slow) and it seems like all comics are killing time for Avengers vs. X-Men. That's a bad sign when they can't just build the pace up again.

If you're going to put She-Hulk into an Avengers book, make sure she gets a really cool costume and make sure she doesn't get outshined by someone who has all her powers and more (Thor). If you're going to put Hellcat on the New Avengers, make sure that you really show off what she can do and not just resort to what Bendis is doing with everyone on the book (everyone is just punching stuff! WOW! Creative!!! /sarcasm) If you're going to put Storm in the Avengers, make sure she gets a chance to be front and center (seriously, Captain America/Iron Man/Thor...you have a bunch of stuff going for you).

Exactly.
I'd hate to do it, but compare the fights in our comics compared to Manga where the battles are more strategy. The Avengers Annual was won through a three page smash off.
Unless the members of the team can get their own specialty and chances to shine, it'll be the Big three and Spider-man/Wolverine's show.

[sethysquare]

Iconic, yes, but when I got into comics, I barely heard a peep about her until the costume change and then the recent (which I hear is VERY good and everyone is pushing me to read it) WW comic.

But I still disagree and say that WW has been overshadowed pretty severely. Most likely because of no movie and that flopped TV show. (Have you seen the pilot? It's like the show came out of the 90's!)

Well, lets put it this way, WW can support a whole message board and have quite alot of people visiting it, even more than GL boards (which I frequent). Hulk and Wolverine probably cant. If im not wrong CBR did try it with a hulk mesaage board and wolverine will still be part of a team book.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Well, lets put it this way, WW can support a whole message board and have quite alot of people visiting it, even more than GL boards (which I frequent). Hulk and Wolverine probably cant. If im not wrong CBR did try it with a hulk mesaage board and wolverine will still be part of a team book.

Well, alright then.
(I remember going into the WW board once. They were praising that awful Wonder Woman pilot and I went NOPE!)

[Chiasm]

It's pretty obvious why they'd use Spidey over Hellcat in a comic book. Same reason why Spider-Man can support a monthly book and movies and video games and cartoons and Hellcat cannot!

And of course, I get that it's a vicious circle. If a character like Hellcat is never given a chance to shine, how can she get the opportunity to show that she can support a monthly book, movies, video games and cartoons?

What you need is one, KILLER push. I'm talking about the ultimate hyped event for a character like Hellcat.

Let me say that I would never, ever buy a Hellcat comic. However, if you got the following:

-An awesome writer (I'll go with Jason Aaron, as I'm loving W&tXM)
-An awesome artist (I'll go with Kev Walker, as he's a new addition to my sig)
-A new costume (Hellcats stupid yellow-costume is just as high on my "hated" comic costume list as Wolverine's $#!%%* costume)
-Run a promotion campaign like Mark Millar is doing for his Millarworld stuff by telling me it's going to be filled with ninjas and aliens and cool weapons and tech and whatnot...

How could I not be intrigued?

Yes and no.

To truly create a new successful female fronted comic you need an A++++++ list creator. Jason Aaron though - I read comics and yes I've heard of him but I couldn't have told you what he is currently writing or what he previously wrote. He might be flavor of the month but for this you need all time great. You need Grant Morrison. Or Frank Miller. Or Alan Moore. Maybe you get by with someone like Geoff Johns who has a proven track record of revitalizing characters. Jason Aaron though is too new and not a big enough name yet.

Then you have to market the hell out of it as you said. Even with an all time great on the female fronted book you still have to push the hell out of it because it is a female fronted book and there is only one iconic female "superhero" in comics (I qualified it because Lois Lane is iconic but not a superhero).

[Chiasm]

Well, lets put it this way, WW can support a whole message board and have quite alot of people visiting it, even more than GL boards (which I frequent). Hulk and Wolverine probably cant. If im not wrong CBR did try it with a hulk mesaage board and wolverine will still be part of a team book.

Hulk used to have a board. Need I say more?

Wolverine from what I see is largely reviled on the X-boards so I doubt he could support one. That doesn't mean a lot towards sales as negative fans tend to be more vocal than positive ones but its also clear Wolverine doesn't engender enough fandom to support a board.

[sethysquare]

Well, alright then.
(I remember going into the WW board once. They were praising that awful Wonder Woman pilot and I went NOPE!)

Well.... I think WW pilot is alright. Its pretty subjective really. On another note, DC is releasing Worlds' Finest as an ongoing. Featuring Huntress and Powergirl. I hope Marvel can come up with good female titles as well. Calling the Generation Hope a female title doesnt count unless all the members are females or else JSA would also be a female title since Power girl was previously the leader of the group.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Well.... I think WW pilot is alright. Its pretty subjective really. On another note, DC is releasing Worlds' Finest as an ongoing. Featuring Huntress and Powergirl. I hope Marvel can come up with good female titles as well. Calling the Generation Hope a female title doesnt count unless all the members are females or else JSA would also be a female title since Power girl was previously the leader of the group.

I'll just say, I don't think the WW pilot would have won over any new fans...

And yeah, I know of the Huntress/Power Girl book, and I might get it.

Generation Hope IS primarily female focused. Hope Summers is who the book is named after, Transonic (one of my favorites) gets a lot of good development, and Idie was the center of Schism (though I don't like how Aaron portrays her now). Also Pixie joined.
Again, I think Generation Hope is more female oriented right now.

[Old Sparky]

I think the biggest hurtle is to show these "guys" that the female characters have just as much kickass and charm as other characters. For example, instead of using Spider-Man for the comic relief on every team, why not try Hellcat?

This is a fabulous idea. Anything to get her more face time. I love Patsy.

Just show that the girls are more than snarky team members who put down the other members all the time. (Which is why Ms. Marvel drove me nuts in New Avengers.)

Of course, last time I saw them do this with Hellcat, she and Tigra were making a kitty litter jokes reference... weaksauce.

[MuhollandDriver]

If a male reader looks at a female solo and thinks "Sex and the City" regardless who the female character is, that is really his own stereotype to deal with, and its unfortunate if that truly affects sales. I'm not sure if I totally accept the idea that Marvel mostly releases teams. They release several solo titles.

Those who say "I would only buy a female solo with a top notch creative team." are missing out, and undervaluing those gals. Several of the female solos I have read, from both DC and Marvel, were superhero comics featuring female leads. Nothing more or less.

In terms of sales, there have been times that female solos at DC who aren't Wonder Woman have sold well, and times where they haven't. I think it is arguable that some are what Marvel might consider "second tier". Getting that far is an accomplishment itself

Wonder Woman's team were not superstars before her book. Brian Azzarello was extremely well-acclaimed, and Cliff Chiang was an up-and-comer with prospects. When their run is over? That might be a different story.
Sure, Batwoman's art is pulling people in. So is the intriguing story and, even more, the wonderful complex leader character.

So sure, top notch creative teams can help, but their job is no different. They have to create a world that pulls readers in, and they aren't guaranteed to do that.



I can think of many different styles/genres that Marvel ladies could fit in a solo series.

Ms. Marvel - Throw her back to her cosmic roots. Even better, make her Captain Marvel.

Spider-Woman - Make her a detective who investigates paranormal crime.

She-Hulk - Some of her runs have come close. A nice mix of action and comedy suits her well.

Magik - An outside the box option. She has a rogues gallery, an environment, and a possible supporting cast. Give her a dark fantasy or a horror book. Put Bill Scienkiewicz on it!

[yvahed]

I would say as some others have suggested – make it a buddy book (like DC have done with Birds of Prey and now World Finest.

The most obvious would be a SpiderWoman and Ms. Marvel team up with She-hulk (Jen) thrown into the mix – three women who already have a track record of supporting their own book.

Jessica and Carol have strong ties to the X-universe and Jen to the FF and other teams – so it will be a big MU book (not just Avengers centric).

Of course there would have to be a top writer artist team.

Birds of Prey had Nightwing and Blue Beetle as regular male supporting characters and this one should too – preferably someone not being used much elsewhere – Black Knight? Genis-vell? Hellstorm?

I liked the Lady Liberators idea but cannot think of a better name.
Rotating members I would like to see on various arcs would be Storm, Tigra, Invisible Woman, Dazzler, Scarlet Witch, Mockingbird, Black widow, Valkyrie, Hellcat, Photon. And of course Janet van Dyne when she is back ;)

[Chiasm]

If a male reader looks at a female solo and thinks "Sex and the City" despite who the female character is, that is really his own stereotype to deal with, and its unfortunate if that truly affects sales. I'm not sure if I totally accept the idea that Marvel mostly releases teams. They release several solo titles, and these days they are all male.

Those who say "I would only buy a female solo with a top notch creative team." are missing out, and undervaluing those gals. Several of the female solos I have read, from both DC and Marvel, were superhero comics featuring female leads. Nothing more or less.

In terms of sales, there have been times that female solos at DC who aren't Wonder Woman have sold well, and times where they haven't. I think it is arguable that some are what Marvel might consider "second tier". Getting that far is an accomplishment itself

Wonder Woman's team were not superstars before her book. Brian Azzarello was extremely well-acclaimed, and Cliff Chiang was an up-and-comer with prospects. When their run is over? That might be a different story.
Sure, Batwoman's art is pulling people in. So is the intriguing story and, even more, the wonderful complex leader character.

So sure, top notch creative teams can help, but their job is no different. They have to create a world that pulls readers in, and they aren't guaranteed to do that.



I can think of many different styles/genres that Marvel ladies could fit in a solo series.

Ms. Marvel - Throw her back to her cosmic roots. Even better, make her Captain Marvel.

Spider-Woman - Make her a detective who investigates paranormal crime.

She-Hulk - Some of her runs have come close. A nice mix of action and comedy suits her well.

Magik - An outside the box option. She has a rogues gallery, an environment, and a possible supporting cast. Give her a dark fantasy or a horror book. Put Bill Scienkiewicz on it!

A female fronted book is only as good as its creative team. An established Icon book like Spiderman or Batman or X-men will sell despite its creative team (witness Uncanny X-men with Matt Fraction and Greg Land) but for a non-iconic character (i.e. every single female character except Wonder Woman) you either have to have the best of the best creative teams helming it or a fantastic newcomer team and a company with patience (witness Batwoman at DC where they had the patience to leave the art team on the book after its Detective Arc (that was without Batman) instead of shifting them to one of their top books as would happen most times). Relatively new but stellar writer John Doe coupled with relatively new but stellar artist Frank Jones can do the best Magik series you've ever seen but 99.99% of the time its going to sell like crap at first because neither the character nor the team are A list yet and by the time the creative team starts getting acclaim they'll be moved to Avengers or X-men. Such is reality most of the time in todays comic book world. The days of fledgling but future star writers like Chris Claremont sticking around on a fringe book like Uncanny X-men long enough to turn it into A list are long gone.

[Shinglepants]

I think its crazy that Marvel cant keep a female solo going. I think there are a couple of reasons.

1. Sexism. This is a conversation I had literally an hour ago.
Friend: Dude, you need to check out the New52 stuff.
Me: I know I know. Im trade waiting Animal Man, Swampthing and Wonder Woman.
Friend: Um, Wonder Woman?
Me: Yes?
Friend: But she's a chick.

2. Lack of effort on both Marvels and readers part. Why would Marvel worry about putting out a female solo book when the big guns are raking it in? Then the readers dont want to get into books that will get cancelled after a few issues and the vicious cycle continues.

I think a Liberators book is the way forward. I would drop the "Lady" part of the title though. Next instead of it being like "we're an all girls club, no boys allowed" just let it be She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel getting their friends together for a mission or two.

I just find it amazing that Storm, Sue, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk or someone cant hold a title down.