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  1. #2416
    Mr. Papaya Balfro's Avatar
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    Oh no, Beast just died

    Oh well, I already know he comes back

    ...Only to die again
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  2. #2417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balfro View Post
    Oh no, Beast just died

    Oh well, I already know he comes back

    ...Only to die again
    Why did Beast had to die, AGAIN? They could have done so much with him, my fan fiction is proof of that. Killing him off in Ultimatum was plain lazy.

  3. #2418
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrV View Post
    Why did Beast had to die, AGAIN? They could have done so much with him, my fan fiction is proof of that. Killing him off in Ultimatum was plain lazy.
    Bringing him back to life was lazy, Ultimatum just fixed that mistake.

  4. #2419
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Bringing him back to life was lazy, Ultimatum just fixed that mistake.
    No, killing him in a tidal wave was lazy. Bringing him back might have been uninspired, unfulfilling and unnecessary, but there wasn't really anything lazy about it. And it was far from the worst part of Kirkman's run.

    And I still hold to the ideal that two wrongs don't make a right. Okay, so Kirkman brought Beast back. Why not make the most of it? Instead of killing him off, make the retcon actually mean something rather than rendering it pointless.
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  5. #2420
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Bringing him back to life was lazy, Ultimatum just fixed that mistake.
    He actually had a purpose to be back, Beast had to find the cure to Legacy Virus. Source: Ultimate X-Men #81.

    That is a big deal. In my fan fiction I take this and make the most out of it, because it's obvious a good writer makes a resurrection mean something. Like I did, I made Beast a Beast.

    If I could do it in a fan fiction then there's no reason why the writers couldn't have done the same. Killing him again was as lazy as what happened to Perun.
    Last edited by MrV; 02-23-2012 at 02:12 PM.

  6. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    No, killing him in a tidal wave was lazy. Bringing him back might have been uninspired, unfulfilling and unnecessary, but there wasn't really anything lazy about it. And it was far from the worst part of Kirkman's run.

    And I still hold to the ideal that two wrongs don't make a right. Okay, so Kirkman brought Beast back. Why not make the most of it? Instead of killing him off, make the retcon actually mean something rather than rendering it pointless.
    Because he shouldn't have been brought back in the first place. Ultimatum killed off any of the characters that had been revived. It was fixing a mistake, not making one.

    @MrV Thor never died and when Asgard fell Valkyrie died (along with Peter, Logan, etc.). Magneto...well, I think we can both agree that something is off about that.


    I just read the Chris Brown police report, horrible stuff. What was more disturbing though were the people defending him and wanting to be beaten by him in the comments.

  7. #2422
    Senior Member Trevor M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrV View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with happy endings, as long as they are not forced unlike most fairy tales. In the manga the ending was not forced at all, it was natural progression, 108 chapters of build up yielded that result.
    I see a lot wrong with happy endings, especially in this case. Okay so first off we have two brother who lost their mom and broke the most important rule and now have to pay for it. That's a good start, they go on a journey to correct the mistake and learn the dark history of the Philosopher's Stone and that the country isn't as good as it seems, nice. Then we get to the end where they fight and beat Father and that's it. Al gets his body back, Ed and Winry start a family, Roy becomes Fuhrer it seemed so cheesy and predictable. While at the end of the original anime everyone had to pay a price for their sins, Ed getting his brother's body but at the cost of his own existence, Mustang gets blinded in one eye and stops using alchemy, even Izumi dies. It goes to show that victories and tragedies go hand in hand.

    The antagonist of the manga was also better in every way compared to Dante, she was not much of a threat compared to Envy in the first anime. In Brotherhood the ultimate foe was the Father and his level of threat had big ramifications. So most favorable points go to Brotherhood.
    There was some mystery to Dante but the payoff was weak. Father seemed like the archetypal villain, brooding, enigmatic, and threatening.

  8. #2423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor M. View Post
    I see a lot wrong with happy endings, especially in this case. Okay so first off we have two brother who lost their mom and broke the most important rule and now have to pay for it. That's a good start, they go on a journey to correct the mistake and learn the dark history of the Philosopher's Stone and that the country isn't as good as it seems, nice. Then we get to the end where they fight and beat Father and that's it. Al gets his body back, Ed and Winry start a family, Roy becomes Fuhrer it seemed so cheesy and predictable.
    Correction: Roy gave up the position of Fuhrer.

    Paying for sins later on misses the whole point, because the penance occurred immediately during equivalent exchange. It makes God look like an immature and vengeful jerk who keeps poking at old wounds. People are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.

    There were not sins to pay for anymore, they had been dealt with when God took away body parts from them.
    Last edited by MrV; 02-23-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  9. #2424
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a masterpiece or anything.
    I know Plawsky, but you can still be forgiven if you change the word "great" to "passable" we'll forgive you! We can blame someone else! Lets just pretend it was a typo! <3

    My only point is that it got a lot of undeserved criticism because it didn't live up to Pixar's precedent.
    Honestly it was still god awful. I think it got all the deserved critism.

    It was still better than your average kids movie
    Maybe when you compare it to Chipmunks or Smurfs or Penguins, but when you compare it to Dreamworks (Pixar's highest competiton) ti was downright awful.

    Kung Fu Panda 2
    Awesome action and team dialogue, not to mention THE PLOT! We gotta save Kung Fu!!! Genius! GENIUS! Tho fuck, i really hate the lame ass twist ending.
    Of course, it's ironic that you defend Puss in Boots, yet you criticize Cars 2 for focusing on a side character.
    Thats because Puss in Boots WAS his movie. Mater has his own movie (direct to video format, it has like 3 short stories collect together. I've never seen it, but my little cousins own it) but Cars 2 is CARS 2! Not Mater 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I can't wait for Incredible's 2!!
    Sweet mother of god. The greatest superhero movie is actually getting a sequel? I haven't heard anything, i demand sources!!!

    Young Justice "Misplaced" preview!



    Also man, the Grey was awesome! Best movie hands down i saw this week.
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  10. #2425
    Senior Member Trevor M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrV View Post
    Paying for sins later on misses the whole point, because the penance occurred immediately during equivalent exchange. It makes God look like an immature and vengeful jerk who keeps poking at old wounds. People are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.

    There were not sins to pay for anymore, they had been dealt with when God took away body parts from them.
    They went on a quest to regain their bodies through the Philosophers Stone which was also a way of trying to cheat (unbeknownst to them at the time) but still, they should have gotten the point. After all that they still used it and payed the price. They should have learned the first time.

  11. #2426
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    I know Plawsky, but you can still be forgiven if you change the word "great" to "passable" we'll forgive you! We can blame someone else! Lets just pretend it was a typo! <3
    Great might be an overstatement when comparing to the other Pixar movies, I'll admit that, but I stand behind what I said. I really enjoyed the film. It was fun, and if a kid's movie is fun, I think it's done its job.

    Maybe when you compare it to Chipmunks or Smurfs or Penguins, but when you compare it to Dreamworks (Pixar's highest competiton) ti was downright awful.
    If you're comparing only to Kung Fu Panda and Puss in Boots, then MAYBE. But when you look at the complete list of Dreamworks movies, it's not even close. Dreamworks is the company that gave us Sinbad, Shark Tale, Road to El Dorado, too many Shrek sequels, and Bee Movie. And while I have a soft spot in my heart for Antz, it's a poor man's Bug's Life (yes, I know it came out a month earlier). Sure, Dreamworks has some great movies in there, like Prince of Egypt, Shrek, and How to Train Your Dragon, but their consistency is nothing like Pixar's.

    And while I still don't think it was bad, you are essentially agreeing with my main point. Despite it's flaws, it was still better than most kids movies. I would much rather watch Cars 2 every day than ever go see Chipwrecked or Hoodwinked Too.

    As an aside, that has nothing to do with Cars 2 and more to do with Pixar vs Dreamworks -

    Most Dreamworks films succeed in the same way Cars 2 did for me - they are good kids movies. Now, I still haven't seen How to Train Your Dragon, so I can't speak on it, but I can't think of any Dreamworks movies that have worked on other emotional levels like Pixar's do.

    The beginning of Up is probably the most powerful 10 minutes of a movie I've ever seen; it alone could have been a movie. Wall-E spent a good portion of the movie with absolutely no dialogue, but it still developed character, romance, and emotion, and, even more impressively, kept children's attention. The Toy Story movies tackle friendship, imagination, cherishing childhood, fear of replacement, abandonment, and (most poignantly) letting go.

    Now, Cars 2 didn't have all that, and that was what made it "just another good kids movie" for me. But that's what makes Pixar so much better than everyone else. In other words:


    (click for bigger)

    Thats because Puss in Boots WAS his movie. Mater has his own movie (direct to video format, it has like 3 short stories collect together. I've never seen it, but my little cousins own it) but Cars 2 is CARS 2! Not Mater 2.
    Your words:

    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    It's like giving Han Solo his own movie.
    So basically, you first say that side characters shouldn't star in a movie. Then, when I point out the double standard, you say your problem is the fact that it's called "Cars 2" and not "Mater."



    Now, to Wolverine12, you're wrong. Despicable Me was great.
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  12. #2427
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    And while I still don't think it was bad, you are essentially agreeing with my main point. Despite it's flaws, it was still better than most kids movies. I would much rather watch Cars 2 every day than ever go see Chipwrecked or Hoodwinked Too.
    Yeha but the thing is. Noone cares about those movies. People care about Pixar and they give us something thats as bad as Chipmunks or Smurfs. I don't see Cars 2 getting overhated, it just really was that bad, it was a bigger disappointment then ever because they talked about how much they're trying to improve it from the 1st.
    Now, I still haven't seen How to Train Your Dragon, so I can't speak on it, but I can't think of any Dreamworks movies that have worked on other emotional levels like Pixar's do.
    That is exactly why you need to rent How to Train your Dragon as fast as humanly possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    So basically, you first say that side characters shouldn't star in a movie. Then, when I point out the double standard, you say your problem is the fact that it's called "Cars 2" and not "Mater."
    I'll go more specifics: If you wanted the "most popular part" from a franchise (Mater in Cars i guess) then wouldn't the one in Shrek be the Donkey? He's the comedic character, imagen a whole movie about him.

    Puss, i felt he was much more of a side character then a proper supporting character like the Donkey or Han Solo, i don't view this as a double standard, it's just how i see Puss.

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  13. #2428
    Mr. Papaya Balfro's Avatar
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    See the thing I love about Shrek is the adult humor that flies over the heads of innocent children. But I do agree that Pixar is superior as far as quality goes. Monster Inc and Incredibles are two movies that, to me, have infinite replay value: you can watch them several times a year and not feel bored.
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  14. #2429
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Yeha but the thing is. Noone cares about those movies.
    Right, that's kind of my point. If some random company had put out Cars 2, it wouldn't have been as widely trashed. It still received better reviews than Hoodwinked, etc, but you have a lot of people saying that Cars 2 is the worst kids movie ever, when it's clearly not, only because it has Pixar in the credits.

    It's kind of like how people here (yourself excluded, obviously) overreact when talking about Ultimate Avengers. It's not all that bad, but compared to Ultimates, it's a letdown. If Loeb had written those exact same books, they wouldn't have been as upsetting.

    [Quote]That is exactly why you need to rent How to Train your Dragon as fast as humanly possible.[/quote

    Yeah, I'm not denying its greatness. It looked fantastic, and I've heard awesome things, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. But it seems to be the exception to the rule for Dreamworks, just like Cars 2 (and, to a lesser extent, Cars) is Pixar's exception.

    I'll go more specifics: If you wanted the "most popular part" from a franchise (Mater in Cars i guess) then wouldn't the one in Shrek be the Donkey? He's the comedic character, imagen a whole movie about him.
    I'd be fine with that. If it followed Cars 2's format, Shrek would still be a character. Eddie Murphy is by far the best part of those movies. Granted, by "I'd be fine with that," I mean "only if it would be up to par with the original Shrek." I have no faith that they could actually keep telling great stories with those characters.


    PS. Two can play this game:
    Oh, I know that it's a rash overgeneralization. But the truth remains - Pixar is better than Dreamworks. I have a hard time believing anyone else actually thinks otherwise. Even the people at Dreamworks know this.
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  15. #2430
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    And while I know I'm in the minority as far as Cars 2 goes, it's not like I'm trying to defend Bee Movie or Shark Tale. That would just be stupid.
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