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  1. #4486
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Schism, Wolverine's change of heart. All of this has been done because Jason Aaron. Wolverine regained his memories from House of M, became a new man and after the Red Right Hand of Vengeance swore not to touch any children anymore, but instead teach and help these kids. Now he's back to murdering them, so what the fuck is the point of the Hellfire Club? Why doesn't Wolverine just go and kill them too since he's okay with child murdering suddenly again?
    You're talking about a guy who runs a clandestine hit squad. If he needs to kill Hope to save the entire planet he will do it. Besides, he never vowed not to kill kids, he vowed to not make them full time soldiers. Even then he didn't stop Hope and her kids from helping against Exodus in WaTXM. He doesn't always kill, but he will do it if it's necessary. That's how he has been written pretty much since his inception.



    Don't forget he didn't have the guts to kill the kid, but it ended up being Fantomex who decided to make Apocalypse into Superman.
    He didn't but he didn't have a problem with it afterwards, now he's cleaning up Fantomex's mess by harboring kid Pooky.


    Regressing the character back to something old is not progression.
    It's not regression, this is who he is. You're making him out to be some sort of pacifist now. It's been stated in story that he isn't bonding with Hope because he feels he may have to kill her someday, that day was apparently last Wednesday


    Don't forget Captain America, Spider-Man, Wolverine and pretty much everyone.
    I agree with Cap, not so much Spidey though. Spidey has seemed pretty hesitant so far to want to engage and has been voicing his concerns.
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  2. #4487
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Plaural "s" :P
    There is only one Bendis. Singular. Solid effort, though!

    Bendis' Avengers deserves to be in that spot, while I agree that Hickman's Fantastic Four should be higher, it's nowhere near as good as Bendis' run. Bendis has been on this book for almost a decade.
    Length of tenure has nothing to do with quality. I would put the first 50 or so New Avengers issues and Dark Avengers up there, but the post-Siege books haven't been anywhere near as good. But even Dark Avengers, as good as it was, wasn't anywhere near as good as the Thunderbolts story by Warren Ellis that it spun out of. It's become evident that Bendis has run out of unique stories to tell, already using the Hood and Dark Avengers again this soon after Siege. And while there have been some great fight scenes in the books, there really hasn't been much character development, outside of Norman Osborn and the Cage family.

    I think it's great that Bendis, with the help of Marvel marketing and editorial, has turned the Avengers into Marvel's top franchise. Really, they're arguably the top franchise in comics right now. But, looking back, what has he done of significance for the team and characters outside of the events? Disassembled was a big development, as was Secret Invasion and, to a much lesser extent, Siege. Civil War really had the biggest impact, but Millar wrote that, and the best initiative-era book was Avengers: The Initiative by Slott and Gage (which really should have been on this list), followed by Slott's Mighty Avengers. I'd say the biggest affect he had on the franchise was his first story, with Avengers Finale probably being my favorite of his issues.

    Hickman, on the other hand, has had nothing but significant developments for the Fantastic Four franchise. It is a perfect blend of classic - from Doom to the Inhumans - and new - Council of Reeds. There was jaw dropping action all over the place, mixed with some extremely well done emotional moments. Seeing Ben as a human for a week was simply amazing. It is a smart book that allowed for self-contained arcs while simultaneously building towards an epic conclusion for the entire story. The quality of plotting and character development is leaps and bounds beyond what Bendis has done on the Avengers. The Avengers run might be more significant, I suppose, but I really don't see how anyone could view it as a better story, as a whole.

    Now, Ultimate Spider-man is a run that I can agree with being that high on the list. While I don't think it's as smart of a book as Fantastic Four, as far as long-term plotting goes, there's no doubting that Bendis brings his A-game on almost every story. He really should stick to solo books, because he does a much better job at managing a supporting cast behind a main character, rather than trying to balance a group of main characters. Ultimate Spider-man was for years my favorite comic, and, though I think it's dropped some in quality, it continues to be a solid, character driven book.

    And though I understand the subjectivity of lists like these, I think there's really some stuff they overlooked. Marvels Project should have been on there, or at least mentioned as part of Brubaker's Cap run, because it's one of the best miniseries I've read from Marvel in years. Slott's run on Amazing Spider-man is awesome. Also, the previously mentioned Ellis run on Thunderbolts is comic book perfection and non-Bendis Avengers stories.
    I like Ultimate Comics. - Read them with us!

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  3. #4488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    There is only one Bendis. Singular. Solid effort, though!
    That college professor was a piece of crap.

  4. #4489
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    You're talking about a guy who runs a clandestine hit squad.
    There is a damn good difference between outright villains and murdering innocent children. Jason Aaron and Rick Remender have both shown how Wolverine has become a far more caring person ever since he regained his whole memory. He swore off to never hurt children again, hence the Hellfire Club is now consisting of children because Aaron is writing how Wolverine could never kill them, yet here he is popping his claws to murder a child. Character development of the past years? Fucking ignored.
    If he needs to kill Hope to save the entire planet he will do it.
    Thne he is a fool for not trying the other possible ways, such as geting Hope OFF Earth, or the whole Avengers and X-men dealing with the Phoenix, which they have done in the recent years. This is one of the biggest problems with AvX just like it was with Fear Itself. Characters acting like god damn morons to advance the plot, it's downright insulting for some fans.

    Previously the Phoenix showed up, it saved them from an army of Stepford clones that wanted to destroy the Mutants, before that it was just "lol hi there" and Jean Grey shutted it off. Before that it was in Morrison's run with Jean using it to save lives and defeat Xorn-Magneto, this was after several years of maintaining the Phoenix Force. Rachel had this power while hanging out as a member of Excalibur, and then again we can point out Jean Grey.

    But fuck continuity right? Let's just remember that 1 single story, Dark Phoenix Saga lol.
    Besides, he never vowed not to kill kids, he vowed to not make them full time soldiers.
    Oh and if this was true, why isn't Wolverine touching the Hellfire Club? ;)
    He didn't but he didn't have a problem with it afterwards
    He definitely did as it stressed the hell out of the whole team. #5 Deals with the outfall and shows Deadpool's regrets while Wolverine tries to shrug it all off.

    It's not regression, this is who he is. You're making him out to be some sort of pacifist now.
    I am making him a hero who promised to not touch children.

    I agree with Cap, not so much Spidey though. Spidey has seemed pretty hesitant so far to want to engage and has been voicing his concerns.
    Yet he will be perfectly cool with Captain putting the teenage Mutants in prison more or less. Our hero!
    "Finally got rid of all those pesky white males that were burdening the team! Now the Ultimates are urban hipsters... what everyone demanded!" - Exciter
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  5. #4490

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Young Justice: Invasion trailer! Blue Beetle, Wonder Girl and Bumblebee!

    Brad Peyton will direct Lobo movie
    , so mixed feelings! Lobo movie is awesome, but the director has just done children movies of recent years. Still gotta keep that optism up!

    IGN nominates Morrison's Batman run as the best comic run of the decade!
    I'm finding myself more and more intrigued by Young Justice as well. I wasn't into this show initially, but it has steadily won me over with each episode. Adding Wonder Girl to the mix can only help!

    As for Grant Morrison's Batman run being nominated as the best in a decade, I really can't argue against it. I personally believe there were better runs during this time. If I had to pick one, I would probably pick Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-men run over Morrison's Batman run. But that's probably because I'm a bit biased towards the X-men. I can fully understand why Batman would get more votes. If he won, I would have no complaints. Morrison has a twisted mind and he puts it to great use in the comics he writes. Too bad he didn't get a shot at Ultimate Fantastic Four. I really would have liked to see what he had planned for that series. Guess we'll never know.
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  6. #4491
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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  7. #4492
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    There is a damn good difference between outright villains and murdering innocent children. Jason Aaron and Rick Remender have both shown how Wolverine has become a far more caring person ever since he regained his whole memory. He swore off to never hurt children again, hence the Hellfire Club is now consisting of children because Aaron is writing how Wolverine could never kill them, yet here he is popping his claws to murder a child. Character development of the past years? Fucking ignored.
    Wolverine would kill them if he had to though. As I mentioned earlier if there is another solution present he will go down that path. Also, the Hellfire kids can't destroy an entire planet in the blink of an eye, these are two completely different situations. You have to realize that.


    Thne he is a fool for not trying the other possible ways, such as geting Hope OFF Earth, or the whole Avengers and X-men dealing with the Phoenix, which they have done in the recent years. This is one of the biggest problems with AvX just like it was with Fear Itself. Characters acting like god damn morons to advance the plot, it's downright insulting for some fans.
    I agree that some of the characters are being complete morons, but as we saw in AvX#2 when the Phoenix took over Hope there wasn't any time to negotiate a peaceful settlement. Just because Jean and Rachel could control the Phoenix force doesn't mean Hope can. Jean had so much experience with the PF that it made sense that she could control it. This is something brand new to Hope, it's too much power for a kid to just control, hence the reason she fried Logan from the inside out.

    Previously the Phoenix showed up, it saved them from an army of Stepford clones that wanted to destroy the Mutants, before that it was just "lol hi there" and Jean Grey shutted it off. Before that it was in Morrison's run with Jean using it to save lives and defeat Xorn-Magneto, this was after several years of maintaining the Phoenix Force. Rachel had this power while hanging out as a member of Excalibur, and then again we can point out Jean Grey.
    Like I said above, Jean had a lot of time dealing with the Phoenix before she could control it. This cosmic entity just took over Hope by force, there is no reason to believe it would be willing to sit down at a negotiating table and talk things out. Lets not forget this thing destroyed several planets on it's way to earth. Are we to just assume it will leave Earth be.

    But fuck continuity right? Let's just remember that 1 single story, Dark Phoenix Saga lol.
    That's not the case, this is the Phoenix that is destroying worlds. As we saw, it destroyed whole populated planets on the way here.


    Oh and if this was true, why isn't Wolverine touching the Hellfire Club? ;)
    Because they don't have the power to blow up the planet with a single thought.


    He definitely did as it stressed the hell out of the whole team. #5 Deals with the outfall and shows Deadpool's regrets while Wolverine tries to shrug it all off.
    That just proves my point, he deals with it. I never said he enjoyed it, but if it is what needs to be done it's gonna happen.



    I am making him a hero who promised to not touch children.
    He's a hero willing to do what others won't to solve the problem. Besides Aaron wrote Wolverine's development into school Headmaster, he also wrote the latest issue of AvX, are you going to tell Jason Aaron that he is contradicting his own continuity? In WaTXM #9 there is some good insight into Logan's thought process. He will do whatever it takes to protect his school, when Beast reminds him that Hope is only a child Logan's response is "there is more than one child's life at stake here." Bigger picture and all that.



    Yet he will be perfectly cool with Captain putting the teenage Mutants in prison more or less. Our hero![/QUOTE]
    1) Find a bad guy
    2) Be Wolverine
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  8. #4493
    That is why... I must find Tri-Edge!--Haseo

  9. #4494
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haseo the Terror of Death View Post
    Some people just don't like fun I guess.
    1) Find a bad guy
    2) Be Wolverine
    Bring Back Ultimate Wolverine...again!

  10. #4495

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Some people just don't like fun I guess.
    Those were the exact words I used...in my head.
    That is why... I must find Tri-Edge!--Haseo

  11. #4496

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haseo the Terror of Death View Post
    And some say my reviews on my blog are harsh. I don't get his logic with this and many of his other reviews. Maybe it's just different tastes, but at least I try to be diverse in my opinions towards certain books. I don't always succeed, but I make a conscious effort.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!

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  12. #4497
    Junior Member pinq09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haseo the Terror of Death View Post
    I dont know, I mostly share this guys feelings about WatXM. I understand that a lot of people really like this take on xmen, but to me it just feels awkward and out of place. I dont want to read about xmen being goofy. Most of Aarons ideas so far just stroke me as very infantile and frankly stupid. I dont like the 'funny' supporting cast (kid gladiator, broo, and Aarons take on quentin quire just make me cringe), hellfire brats are quite possibly the worst villain concept since arcade, and seriously, a freaking space casino (!!)? If you add, for me, very unappealing art by Bachalo (most of the time, I really dont have a clue what is going on, and i find the way he draws characters just plain ugly) I just struggle to find positives with this book.

    Dont get me wrong, I understand why people like it and I really dont mean to insult anyones taste, but WatXM is certainly not for everybody.

  13. #4498
    Viridescent Time_to_Zap's Avatar
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    What made me laugh about it was how angry he got. Like, really, man? It's just a comic. Nothing wrong with be passionate, but if reading one makes you that mad, just...stop. Just put it down and, like, go for a walk, take a shower, pet your dog. Do something else. Nobody's forcing you to read it...
    "Before you save anyone else, you have to save yourself."
    ~Gregory Maguire

  14. #4499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time_to_Zap View Post
    What made me laugh about it was how angry he got. Like, really, man? It's just a comic. Nothing wrong with be passionate, but if reading one makes you that mad, just...stop. Just put it down and, like, go for a walk, take a shower, pet your dog. Do something else. Nobody's forcing you to read it...
    This is exactly how I feel anytime anyone brings up Ultimatum.



    Last edited by wyokid; 04-22-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  15. #4500

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    Quote Originally Posted by Time_to_Zap View Post
    What made me laugh about it was how angry he got. Like, really, man? It's just a comic. Nothing wrong with be passionate, but if reading one makes you that mad, just...stop. Just put it down and, like, go for a walk, take a shower, pet your dog. Do something else. Nobody's forcing you to read it...
    Yeah, his tone definitely made me laugh. After that I doubt I will read any more of his reviews.
    That is why... I must find Tri-Edge!--Haseo

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