Knightfall New Edition

[David Walton]

It's a shame the stories are so poor.

They vary in quality. The arc got stretched out a bit too long, both with Valley and Wayne. But overall I enjoyed them a lot.

[One More Day]

They vary in quality. The arc got stretched out a bit too long, both with Valley and Wayne. But overall I enjoyed them a lot.

Did they ever answer "Who Rules the Night" in the Knightfall arc?

[Jim Thompson]

It's one of the most deserving mega-arcs out there, and it falls in that awkward period where DC wasn't collecting everything in trade but the stories are confusing as released. I mean, if you skip from Knightfall to Knightsend you lose all perspective as to where Jean Paul Valley and Bruce Wayne are at this point.

And there's something really cool and unique about a Bruce Wayne story where his physicality is taken off the table. Knightquest: The Search emphasizes Bruce's wit and determination in a way few stories do.

The way the stories have been collected up thusfar really seems a disservice to readers in two ways:

1.) As you mentioned, it really short changes Bruce's tine out of the cape and cowl, and,
2.) It doesn't really show the progression of Jean Paul Valley's character after he became Batman. The trades show him taking over the mantle of the bat, then jump forward to where he's gone off the rails. Missing are all the stories that sort of slowly build to the confrontation we see in Knight's End -- and the lack of those stories doesn't help a reader build any sense of empathy for Valley's character.

[David Walton]

Did they ever answer "Who Rules the Night" in the Knightfall arc?

Jean Paul Valley, that's who!

The way the stories have been collected up thusfar really seems a disservice to readers in two ways:

1.) As you mentioned, it really short changes Bruce's tine out of the cape and cowl, and,
2.) It doesn't really show the progression of Jean Paul Valley's character after he became Batman. The trades show him taking over the mantle of the bat, then jump forward to where he's gone off the rails. Missing are all the stories that sort of slowly build to the confrontation we see in Knight's End -- and the lack of those stories doesn't help a reader build any sense of empathy for Valley's character.

Exactly. I mean, you go from seeing JPV as a darker, more obsessive manifestation of Batman who's still not too far out there, to a guy who's listening to the voices in his head.

[Jasoninthewoods]

Think I'I pass on this until there's a New 52 style remake.

You know there coming.

[merrick97]

Think I'I pass on this until there's a New 52 style remake.

You know there coming.

Uh.

Do we?

[Buried Alien]

The new collection still falls far short of the complete KNIGHTFALL saga, which would include all of these items:

1. VENGEANCE OF BANE
2. SWORD OF AZRAEL
3. The issues of BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS that, strictly speaking, fall before KNIGHTFALL proper, but clearly show the beginnings of Batman/Bruce Wayne's gradual deterioration.
4. KNIGHTFALL proper, of course.
5. Both parts of KNIGHTSQUEST (THE CRUSADE/THE QUEST)
6. KNIGHTSEND
7. PRODIGAL

If we were to get *really* greedy, we'd throw in BATMAN: VENOM and VENGEANCE OF BANE II in there too...maybe even Batman and Bane's rematch fight from LEGACY.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Jeff Brady]

And Troika for the hell of it.

[Buried Alien]

And Troika for the hell of it.

Maybe just for the hell of it, but TROIKA strikes me as the point where DC finally said, "OK...KNIGHTFALL and its aftermath are finally done; we now return you to your regular Bat-programming."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[One More Day]

Jean Paul Valley, that's who!

What happened? I don't understand why they titled it so for the 2nd arc of Knightfall (parts 12-19)

[Jim Thompson]

Maybe just for the hell of it, but TROIKA strikes me as the point where DC finally said, "OK...KNIGHTFALL and it's aftermath are finally done; we now return you to your regular Bat-programming."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

It was -- but it featured one of the best versions of Batman's costume out there, I thought. Loved that redesign!

[Jasoninthewoods]

Uh.

Do we?

Actually I was only kidding.

Uh oh I might have just given them some bad ideas.

[Buried Alien]

What happened? I don't understand why they titled it so for the 2nd arc of Knightfall (parts 12-19)

Well, Batman (Bruce Wayne) originally ruled the night, but it was taken from him by Bane. Bane didn't get to enjoy his rule of the night for long before the new Batman (Jean Paul Valley) took it away from him. Eventually, the original Batman returned and took the night back from the insane new Batman.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Buried Alien]

It was -- but it featured one of the best versions of Batman's costume out there, I thought. Loved that redesign!

So did I, but when it first appeared as Kelly Jones penciled it, I could barely tell what it looked like.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Venomous Mask]

The new collection still falls far short of the complete KNIGHTFALL saga, which would include all of these items:

1. VENGEANCE OF BANE
2. SWORD OF AZRAEL
3. The issues of BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS that, strictly speaking, fall before KNIGHTFALL proper, but clearly show the beginnings of Batman/Bruce Wayne's gradual deterioration.
4. KNIGHTFALL proper, of course.
5. Both parts of KNIGHTSQUEST (THE CRUSADE/THE QUEST)
6. KNIGHTSEND
7. PRODIGAL

If we were to get *really* greedy, we'd throw in BATMAN: VENOM and VENGEANCE OF BANE II in there too...maybe even Batman and Bane's rematch fight from LEGACY.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

And Troika for the hell of it.