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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake V View Post
    I liked the Winter Soldier outfit more than his Cap costume. I never was a fan of Alex Ross' design sense.
    ripoff of cable with a robin mask. No one liked it but they did like the new cap costume.
    FAdam K- How do you read comics and sit around on this board and not know who Gorilla Man is after the last couple of years??

    Boycott #1 issues!!!!!

    Where is red hulk's moustache?

  2. #47
    BANNED Jake V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satchmo the dragon View Post
    ripoff of cable with a robin mask. No one liked it but they did like the new cap costume.
    Right, I'm sure no one liked it. Not a person.

  3. #48
    Chaotically Neutral Specimen 297's Avatar
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    Where's this troll getting his facts?
    I'd just like everyone to know that not only am I dropping Marvel, I'm dropping this forum considering I'm not even allowed to voice a negative opinion because a thread "isn't about me".

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    How do you feel about reveals, which very often are, by their very nature, playing with a character's back-story and continuity?
    I did not like the idea of reviving Bucky.
    His death was something which gave Cap a pathos and humanity to counterpoint what could be seen as his "perfection".
    It also seemed to me that to some extent Bucky was being revived to show that there were no "sacred cows", that nothing was "unthinkable" in the new era of comic book writing.
    That feeling may have been entirely wrong, but it was how I felt at that time.

    I have to say, I've enjoyed reading the comics since.
    I do have some reservations and misgivings about some of the retcons, mainly based on my preference for the CCA approved no deliberate killing retcon.

    But even though I've enjoyed the comics, I think it was a mistake, at the end of the day.
    I know Bucky's is by no means the only return from seeming "death", so why single him out?
    Because his death was longer lasting, more iconic, and had an actual effect on Cap.
    Nowadays characters die and we don't see a funeral, or mourning or grieving or anyone even mention them two issues later.

    Stan Lee and the other writers may have made Cap's grief melodramatic and overwrought, but it's consistency and length rang true.
    And it made Cap a better character to have this survivor's guilt, this parental guilt, this failure he could never change or atone for.
    With Bucky alive Cap is a perfect super-soldier for whom everything turns out OK in the end.
    Which is less enjoyable for me.

    Now Bucky has Cap's guilt (over his time as Winter Soldier), but with a badass/specops/Punisher type background, which is a little confusing.
    He feels bad about people he killed for the communists, but OK about those he killed in the war, and since being freed?
    Cap's guilt was easier to understand, for me.

    And now Bucky is back, we have one more character who kills, and we seem to have those already.
    We have a "man out of time" but we already have some of those.
    We have a man with a cyborg arm, and we already have those.
    We have a "reformed villain" or "man with a past", and we already have those.

    Other than the big taboo-busting resurrection story itself, I'm not sure what Bucky brings that could not have been told with existing characters.

    So overall, although there have been some well written and drawn comics about and since his return, I'd still rather he'd stayed dead.

  5. #50
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    99% of the time, I'm against ressurections, (the 1% exception being when the death was really stupidly handled and didn't bring anything worthwhile to the story and the general comic universe. Alpha Flight's off panel death stands as a perfect exemple).
    I did think Bru handled surprisinngly well the return of Bucky. Enjoyed most of the stories taht came afterwards, especially after Cap's "death". That being said, still belive that dead should mean dead, and that Bucky shouldn't have been brought back. As tommyman illustrated, we lost more than we gained with his return.
    On the tally of great deaths that were reverted, I'd say Jean Grey, Barry Allen, Colossus, Jason Todd (especially this one), Norman Osborn, kryptonian Supergirl were all better off left dead.
    Alpha Flight, as I've said, died a stupid death and deserved another go around. As with Bucky, Hal Jordan's return really gave us a lot of great stories, however, I see no reason why most those stories couldn't have been done with John Stewart standing in for Hal. It actually would have been o show of cajones on DC's part. Captain Mar-vell should remain dead.
    In my opinion, of course.

    Peace

  6. #51
    Senior Member West's Avatar
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    Now Bucky has Cap's guilt (over his time as Winter Soldier), but with a badass/specops/Punisher type background, which is a little confusing.
    He feels bad about people he killed for the communists, but OK about those he killed in the war, and since being freed?
    Captain America and Bucky kind of touched on this, and a good deal of the people he killed as Winter Soldier weren't really soldiers. His main targets were diplomats or defectors and the like

  7. #52
    Immortal Weapon Prince Of Orphans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satchmo the dragon View Post
    ripoff of cable with a robin mask. No one liked it but they did like the new cap costume.
    A metal arm and it's automatically a ripoff of cable? I guess everyone with a domino mask is a bucky ripoff then.

    I loved the WS costume. Thought he looks better with the long hair though.

    You're an honest to goodness bitter Bucky hater.

  8. #53
    Member Don Quixote's Avatar
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    I liked the Winter Soldier costume just fine. It suited Bucky perfectly, and will probably continue to do so in the ongoing that starts in February.

    As for his resurrection? Best story Marvel has done in the last ten years. At least. Just great storytelling from Brubaker, and he made something work that I think everyone else thought would be a disaster. What's more, he did it in a way that didn't invalidate any of Steve's guilt, remorse or grief over losing his friend in the first place.

    Because although Bucky didn't die, he did spend the best part of seven decades switching between being a mindwiped Soviet assassin, and being on ice in a storage facility somewhere. Then, when he recovered himself, he had to deal with the guilt of all his actions, that Steve forced him to remember through using the Cosmic Cube.

    I think James Buchanan Barnes is Marvel's one true high point at the moment.

  9. #54
    I wanna hear you scream Kevinroc's Avatar
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    I didn't know such a story could be done but Brubaker handled Bucky's return with such skill that I find myself happy that the character is around. He did a damned good job of it.
    The monster saved them all. And in their fear, they betrayed him. As they always have. As they always will.

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  10. #55
    Shield of the True North CaptainCanada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyman View Post
    He feels bad about people he killed for the communists, but OK about those he killed in the war, and since being freed?
    Cap's guilt was easier to understand, for me.
    How is that hard to understand? He killed bad guys in the war because he thought it was the right thing to do; that's completely different from being brainwashed into assassinating people he doesn't think deserve to die (including people on his own country's side).
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are!"

    - Homer Simpson

  11. #56
    ich liebe Leni stelok's Avatar
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    Bru's Bucky revival is one of the most brilliant stories I had read in a long time
    A N I M E

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCanada View Post
    How is that hard to understand? He killed bad guys in the war because he thought it was the right thing to do; that's completely different from being brainwashed into assassinating people he doesn't think deserve to die (including people on his own country's side).
    Yeah, and it's also not like he doesn't feel bad about having to kill people in the war, and since? Bucky was messed up over shooting 50s Captain America, he's obviously tormented by some of the stuff he saw at war. But those were hard decisions he made, not stuff he was forced into doing.

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyman View Post
    And now Bucky is back, we have one more character who kills, and we seem to have those already.
    We have a "man out of time" but we already have some of those.
    We have a man with a cyborg arm, and we already have those.
    We have a "reformed villain" or "man with a past", and we already have those.

    Other than the big taboo-busting resurrection story itself, I'm not sure what Bucky brings that could not have been told with existing characters.
    Marvel doesn't have a Nightwing. It doesn't have the "sidekick character grown-up and fighting his own battles" thing.

  14. #59
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I thought Bucky's arm looked normal now and wasn't cybernetic looking anymore like Cable's?

  15. #60
    Immortal Weapon Prince Of Orphans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyman View Post
    I know Bucky's is by no means the only return from seeming "death", so why single him out?
    Because his death was longer lasting, more iconic, and had an actual effect on Cap.
    I will tell you exactly why. The pathos involving Cap's guilt over Bucky's death is among the oldest, overused, repetitive, watered down character traits over the past 65+ years of Marvel Comics. It's become virtually obsolete due to years of repetitive storytelling and Brubaker revitalized it, having dealt with the issue without totally erasing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyman View Post
    With Bucky alive Cap is a perfect super-soldier for whom everything turns out OK in the end.
    You must be kidding me. There are plenty of damaged aspects of his personality, mainly the state of modern American ethics both social and political, corruption and social unrest being huge contributing factors. Not to mention the current issues concerning his continually dealing with the morally gray territory that comes with being America's top cop, which i wish would be focused on more closely.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyman View Post
    Now Bucky has Cap's guilt (over his time as Winter Soldier), but with a badass/specops/Punisher type background, which is a little confusing.
    He feels bad about people he killed for the communists, but OK about those he killed in the war, and since being freed?
    Cap's guilt was easier to understand, for me.
    I don't understand the difficulty. A part of me thinks you don't want to accept it in order to justify your views against the Bucky revival. If you look back in various Golden Age comics, Bucky's specops/badass background was alluded to many times, even then. He feels bad for killing those while under mind-control because it was against his will and traitorous. He doesn't feel as bad doing so during the war because he chose to fight for his country. It's the perspective of a patriot.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyman View Post
    And now Bucky is back, we have one more character who kills, and we seem to have those already.
    We have a "man out of time" but we already have some of those.
    We have a man with a cyborg arm, and we already have those.
    We have a "reformed villain" or "man with a past", and we already have those.
    You refer to the most general of aspects of the character and completely ignore what makes him unique in order to justify your discontent.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyman View Post
    So overall, although there have been some well written and drawn comics about and since his return, I'd still rather he'd stayed dead.
    I respectfully disagree. Imo the tradeoff of having an amazing story being told, helping to revitalize the Captain America franchise, adding an interesting "new" character to the mythos and to the MU as a whole was worth giving up the overrated sanctity of keeping a long obsolete character dead. His death may have been important to Captain America once upon a time, but it's been 65+ years. Time to move on, time to grow. If anything, it held the character back and I'm glad the issue has been dealt with.

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