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  1. #4171
    Demonic Seraph Jacksane19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconX2000 View Post
    Honestly, while Fairy Tail's nakama power is strong and all, Purehito was practically invincible and only lost due to superior tactics and a lot of luck for the protaganists.


    Hmm, really looking forward to seeing if Sarutobi can get some better feats here.
    Yeah, I don't get how he could be the strongest Kage at the time of his death, much less the strongest Hokage in history.
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  2. #4172
    Pilot of Gurren Kamina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacksane19 View Post
    Yeah, I don't get how he could be the strongest Kage at the time of his death, much less the strongest Hokage in history.
    Stronger than Gaara's father, Mei, A, and Onoki?

    Edited: I might be underestimating (entirely unaware of) speed (and power) feats here, but Onoki doesn't really seem like all that. The war has brought out that grumpy old man's fighting spirit, then again, I didn't read the fights with Onoki and Mu or Gaara's father in the manga.

    A is a tough customer, but perhaps Sarutobi had something greater than the Lightning Armor that we just haven't seen. Mei... is a chick. And Kishimoto does not make his female characters very impressive in most cases, Temari, Tsunade, and Tayuya withstanding.

    Anyway, Enma implied that Sarutobi's fight with Orochimaru was pathetic compared to the kind of battles Sarutobi fought in his prime. And Orochimaru thought it better to overwhelm Sarutobi with the First and Second rather than take him on alone (and cut him off from reinforcements to boot). We saw Sarutobi fend off Edo-Hashirama and Tobirama for a short while as a matter of fact.

    Perhaps he wasn't renowned solely for "physical strength" so much as his leadership ability (as hard as that may be to believe for those of us who hate how Naruto's childhood was taken care of).

    Compared to Hashirama, who probably (definitely) ((totally)) (((most certainly))) ((((holy shit buddha mecha)))) outclasses him in strength, but seems like a pretty laidback guy and might not have had the best leaderlike qualities, and Tobirama, who seems very harsh and admitted to stirring some trouble in Konoha during his reign. Whatever the case, somebody important thought well enough of Sarutobi to make him Hokage and with good reason.

    Maybe he can leap tall buildings in a single bound?
    Last edited by Kamina; 04-21-2013 at 06:08 AM.

  3. #4173
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
    We saw Sarutobi fend off Edo-Hashirama and Tobirama for a short while as a matter of fact.
    Those two had no free will and had their skills severely limited. This was noted several time. And the things they showed during the fight are solidly below pretty much everything the post-timeskip Kage have shown.

    Also, as an aside, commenting on characters' capability to say that they're not that impressive when by your own admission you haven't read their fight is...an odd thing to do.
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  4. #4174
    Lest We Forget The Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    Those two had no free will and had their skills severely limited. This was noted several time. And the things they showed during the fight are solidly below pretty much everything the post-timeskip Kage have down.

    Also, as an aside, commenting on characters' capability to say that they're not that impressive when by your own admission you haven't read their fight is...an odd thing to do.
    Yeah, considering Oonoki can fly out of range of most opponents and rain down disintegrating death on his enemies.

    As for comparing Edo-Hashirama pre-timeskip to the feats we've seen of him in this previous flashback alone... It's like comparing beginning of manga Naruto with current Naruto. Tobirama, well... he's the black sheep of the four Hokages... Well, except when it comes to parenting. Minato's the black sheep in that regard.
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  5. #4175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacksane19 View Post
    Yeah, I don't get how he could be the strongest Kage at the time of his death, much less the strongest Hokage in history.
    meh, typical Shonen hyperbole and power-creep combined make previous feats look unimpressive. additionally, the writer begins changing his vision for who his imaginary world works as he starts writing-- with a story this long it's probably pretty common-place. I don't let it bother me anymore. Gaara's father was thoroughly dead by the time Orochimaru and Sarutobi fought. the other kages probably hadn't even been thought of yet. hence why Sarutobi was considered so awesome and strong.

    it's like in Full Metal Alchemist where Ed declares that there is no god-- but he ends up fighting one by the end of the manga. the plot being developed in that manga practically required a super-powered pseudo-divine being. writers can take dead-ends in a long-running work-- or change their mind. we just don't always have the luxury of reading about it. I know with Calvin and Hobbes the creator admitted to a few misteps and changed directions-- deciding to overlook things he'd done in the past because they didn't gel with his continuing vision for the work.

    I think this happened quite a bit in Naruto. what the writer intended to 'say' at the beginning did not ultimately turn out to be what he wanted to 'say' at the end. people grow up and move on-- so, I figure this is why we've got weird pot holes like Sarutobi being the strongest kage at the time of his death even though Killer A could probably easily WTF curb-stomp Sarutobi into the ground based on what we've seen both guys do.

  6. #4176
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    it's like in Full Metal Alchemist where Ed declares that there is no god-- but he ends up fighting one by the end of the manga.
    Errr...what? That's not the same thing at all.

    Sarutobi being hyped as hell and yet being upstaged by lots of people post-timeskip is an example of power creep.

    Ed declaring that there is no God despite Truth existing is an example of Ed not considering Truth to actually be God.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  7. #4177
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    Errr...what? That's not the same thing at all.

    Sarutobi being hyped as hell and yet being upstaged by lots of people post-timeskip is an example of power creep.

    Ed declaring that there is no God despite Truth existing is an example of Ed not considering Truth to actually be God.
    Heck, -Truth- didn't even consider itself God. And Ed actually *has* acknowledged that God exists quite a few times in the manga. He just doesn't care for him.

  8. #4178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    Errr...what? That's not the same thing at all.

    Sarutobi being hyped as hell and yet being upstaged by lots of people post-timeskip is an example of power creep.

    Ed declaring that there is no God despite Truth existing is an example of Ed not considering Truth to actually be God.
    sure, but my main point is in mentioning both of those is this: that in long-running manga writers frequently contradict themselves-- or write themselves into a corner that they have to ignore or bypass somehow. (sorry, I'm almost out of chakra)

    I got the impression early in the manga that alchemy was originally used based on the elements of nature and converting things based on some basic principles-- but as the manga progressed it eventually was revealed that their alchemy was linked directly to a specific being. then there was revealed to be multiple forms of alchemy (some based on nature, others on life force, etc).

    I think the creators of Full Metal Alchemist and Naruto both decided to "change the rules" of the game as each manga progressed... to varying degrees of success.

  9. #4179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    Heck, -Truth- didn't even consider itself God. And Ed actually *has* acknowledged that God exists quite a few times in the manga. He just doesn't care for him.
    I.... guess that counts.... although Truth did help bring about a classic Deus Ex Machina ending for the two main characters... I think it would be pretty reasonable to think Truth as the God of the FMA universe. even if it doesn't think of itself on those terms.

    [it's been awhile since I read that series-- will have to go back and pay it a visit. if memory serves, it's a very good read.]

  10. #4180
    Junior Member Xaos's Avatar
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    They can explain away Sarutobi lack of feats in his fight begin he was old and not have much chakra left, and was trapped in a barrier so even if he could do something like drop meteor the barrier prevented him from doing so. It's possible he had a monkey Sage form but fighting 2 hokages and Orochimaru he had no time to set it up.

    but it defiantly does seem like the writer has change his mind about him being the strongest One, as the 1st is now clearly the most powerful, Maybe Sarutobi knows the most jutsu, The 4th still should be the fastest(at least until Naruto becomes an Hokage), the 2nd I guess he's the most aggressive

  11. #4181
    Senior Member Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaos View Post
    They can explain away Sarutobi lack of feats in his fight begin he was old and not have much chakra left, and was trapped in a barrier so even if he could do something like drop meteor the barrier prevented him from doing so. It's possible he had a monkey Sage form but fighting 2 hokages and Orochimaru he had no time to set it up.

    but it defiantly does seem like the writer has change his mind about him being the strongest One, as the 1st is now clearly the most powerful, Maybe Sarutobi knows the most jutsu, The 4th still should be the fastest(at least until Naruto becomes an Hokage), the 2nd I guess he's the most aggressive
    The second might be the smartest or most creative if he did invent the edo tensai he might have made other stuff. Sarutobi might be the most politically savvy or something, best leader

  12. #4182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast View Post
    The second might be the smartest or most creative if he did invent the edo tensai he might have made other stuff. Sarutobi might be the most politically savvy or something, best leader
    tobirama is also stated to be good and space time ninjutsu IIRC

  13. #4183
    Honeru! Miburohunter929's Avatar
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    New Naruto.

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  14. #4184
    Lest We Forget The Dog's Avatar
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    Apparently Uchiha are genetically predisposed to both going evil AND making raepface whenever they think about people they like.
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  15. #4185
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Madara's boner can be seen from space.

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