Naruto Manga/Anime Discussion IV

[Iron_twister]

Well...Hashirama is really proving that he's a fricking badass out there and Madara is sooo right...Old Hashtag could outright murder a lot of current Kage level characters...

...Dude's becoming the Whitebeard of the series.

[Siriel]

I bet that this what happens in the next chapter of their young flashback:

"I'll show you! I'll...create a GIANT ROBOT! WITH A DEMON FOX INSIDE IT!! AND IT'LL BE A SAMURAI!"

"Oh yeah!? Well, I...huh...will make a GIANT BUDDHA WITH A THOUSAND ARMS! OUT OF TREES!"

"Oh, it is on."

Because seriously. There is no way that those techniques ideas came about as anything except boasts when they were kids.

[Omegastorm]

I bet that this what happens in the next chapter of their young flashback:

"I'll show you! I'll...create a GIANT ROBOT! WITH A DEMON FOX INSIDE IT!! AND IT'LL BE A SAMURAI!"

"Oh yeah!? Well, I...huh...will make a GIANT BUDDHA WITH A THOUSAND ARMS! OUT OF TREES!"

"Oh, it is on."

Because seriously. There is no way that those techniques ideas came about as anything except boasts when they were kids.

You might be right about that but that battle was insane.

o

[Miburohunter929]

If there is not a Hiruzen and Tobirama gaiden I am going to be pissed.

The latter moved a finger, and half the people in the room shit themselves, and Hashirama thought it was serious enough to power up. Clearly he has some serious mojo.

Also, we know like, nothing of the guy. One time he fought he was pretty much crippled.

And even if it's bullshit, Hiruzen was the guy originally called the God of Shinobi, and there was a good consideration that he was the strongest Hokage around, and his summon couldn't fucking believe he was having issues against two crippled Hokages.

Clearly he wasn't batting at full power, and the motherfucker had a crazy amount of hype in part one. I know he'll be inferior to Shodai, but I'd atleast like to see enough of him to go "..Okay, I could kinda see why someone might accidentally think he could maybe, sorta kinda in the right light, perhaps outdo Hashirama at something."

Because even with the glances of Shodais powers thus far, it would be a feat if Hiruzen managed not to die in two minutes.

[Crimson Shadow]

If there is not a Hiruzen and Tobirama gaiden I am going to be pissed.

The latter moved a finger, and half the people in the room shit themselves, and Hashirama thought it was serious enough to power up. Clearly he has some serious mojo.

Also, we know like, nothing of the guy. One time he fought he was pretty much crippled.

And even if it's bullshit, Hiruzen was the guy originally called the God of Shinobi, and there was a good consideration that he was the strongest Hokage around, and his summon couldn't fucking believe he was having issues against two crippled Hokages.

Clearly he wasn't batting at full power, and the motherfucker had a crazy amount of hype in part one. I know he'll be inferior to Shodai, but I'd atleast like to see enough of him to go "..Okay, I could kinda see why someone might accidentally think he could maybe, sorta kinda in the right light, perhaps outdo Hashirama at something."

Because even with the glances of Shodais powers thus far, it would be a feat if Hiruzen managed not to die in two minutes.

Yes I would absolutely have to read this. I was always curious about him, but to have him raise a finger and make the First Hokage suddenly get serious- this is one life story I have to read.

[wolvie616]

You know, this also raises the question of who's stronger: Hiruzen, Hashirama, or Minato. Minato is supposed to be the best, Hiruzen was the "God of Shinobi", and we SEE what Hashirama does!

[Omegastorm]

You know, this also raises the question of who's stronger: Hiruzen, Hashirama, or Minato. Minato is supposed to be the best, Hiruzen was the "God of Shinobi", and we SEE what Hashirama does!

Minato is the fastest out of everyone there. It will be interesting to see him use that speed. he did take out Tobi without that much trouble

o

[The Dog]

You know, this also raises the question of who's stronger: Hiruzen, Hashirama, or Minato. Minato is supposed to be the best, Hiruzen was the "God of Shinobi", and we SEE what Hashirama does!

Minato isn't even in Hashirama's SPORT, much less league. Guy couldn't even single-handedly defeat a bijuu.

Hell, he's not even in Mito Uzumaki's league, considering Mito showed up to Madara and Hashtag's battle and sealed Kurama into herself while Minato needed to kill himself AND condemn his newborn orphaned son to a terrible life to seal the same bijuu.

[The Once And Forever]

And yet, he was the only one to gain a "flee on sight" order from opposing armies.

Or, more importantly to the other Hokages, the only one to operate in a time of peace. It would seem to me that when they rank themselves, they aren't talking about who would win in an Arena fight.

[HollowKyubi Espada]

I'll point out that he'd probably be greater than Mito if he had been an Uzumaki since he's as far as we know a "normal" ninja with no badass heritage or bloodline and still managed to create the Hirashin, that barrier/teleporting technique he used on the biju dama, and reverse engineered a bijuu dama into the rasengan with plans to better it. Another thing is for all we know she appeared at the end of Hashimara's and Madara's battle when Kurama was weakened/restrained by Hashimara and she herself was fully rested. Also the only reason Naruto had a hard life was because Hiruzen had to go and blab his status as a Jinchuriki to the village. While we know that both Mito and Kushina were well kept secrets of the village.

Another thing didn't he do the self sacrifice basically because of PIS? I mean Kushina as an Uzumaki should have known the Shiki Fuin and by proxy should have been able to do what Minato had done since she had the strength to restrain Kurama who was still at full power. She was already planning to seal all of Kurama away into herself and die, it wouldn't be a stretch for her to tell Minato of the mask and they could later on have sealed Kurama at full power into Naruto in a more controlled environment.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Minato isn't even in Hashirama's SPORT, much less league. Guy couldn't even single-handedly defeat a bijuu.

Hell, he's not even in Mito Uzumaki's league, considering Mito showed up to Madara and Hashtag's battle and sealed Kurama into herself while Minato needed to kill himself AND condemn his newborn orphaned son to a terrible life to seal the same bijuu.

In all fairness, unlike Hashirama, Minato's powers aren't Kyuubi-kryptonite, and unlike Mito, he wasn't an Uzumaki capable of sealing Kyuubi into himself (I think that was something that was special to her). Kurama was still Madara's big gun in the fight against Hashirama, and he was able to use Susano-o to at least temporarily shield it from Mokuton and Hashirama's response to a Bijuu Dama amped with a Susano-o sword was to use what seemed to be his best defensive tech to redirect it, which Minato was able to do better due to his own specialty being based around that.

[Hazard]

Hashirama is the strongest. There is no arguing that.

Minato is cheap. Guy min maxed his stats for super speed and dimensional weirdness. Yeah, he's never going to throw a mountain buster at you or slap you with his Senjuu Kannon, but the guy can still teleport you to the other side of the country and put seals on you to turn you into a teleporting station with just a touch.

Of the other two, Tobirama is the necromancer with a side order of water abilities and Sarutobi is more of an all-rounder.

[Robotech Master]

I don't think the theme of the new generation surpassing the old need apply in the physical or literal sense all the time.

Sometimes it was literally about the young guard being stronger than their parents. Other times it was just about fresh perspectives and a kind of hopeful resolve that the older generation was getting soft on (this is what earned Gaara the respect of the Tsuchikage, not his power). Other times it was political or philosophical, and about choosing to let the new guard take control of the future, confident that they would do better where you faltered (Chiyo 'yields' to Gaara and Naruto's generation not because of power, but the realization that them fostering brotherhood between villages was better than the warmongering that she had grown up believing to be the only way).

For some of the antagonists, this was about them doing the opposite: clinging to their glory, not willing to let the new generation take a step forward in power or influence. Kakuzu and Danzo both had elements of this, and Nagato was pretty much a direct example of someone who could not trust any future generation with creating a good world, but he eventually yielded that to Naruto when he turned around.

So in comparing Hashirama and Madara, I think the important thing is how they have treated the passage of time and the new generations. Hashirama may be the baddest of them all, but the telling details are the way he acts and the things he says: he's ecstatic to see the village heading into a 5th generation and praises Itachi as being a better shinobi. That might be a flat out lie from some perspectives, but it shows that Hashirama is, first and foremost, a man who knows when it is time to step aside and acknowledge that the future belongs to the new generation.

Madara, on the other hand, is someone unable to really let go. He mocks the current Kage while holding on to his memories of past glory, and instead of entrusting the future to a new generation, he plans to steal their futures for one of his own design.

In short, I think the whole idea has still been fairly consistent.

[remydat]

Catching up on the last few chapters at once, just some observations:

1. We learn Sarutobi most certainly was involved in the extermination of the Uchiha and not just some poor sap duped by Danzo and the other two old farts.

2. We learn that 2nd Hokage basically laid the groundwork for the eventually coup d'etat due to his policy regarding the Uchiha.

3. We learn the that being emo is a source of power for the Uchiha although that one was pretty obvious from the start.

4. We learn that yes the 1st Hokage was really was the beast that Madara hyped him up to be.

5. We learn that the 1st Hokage and Madara were basically the Naruto and Sasuke of their era. In that regard perhaps their surpassing the previous generation will not be exceeding the 1st and Madara in terms of skill but rather exceeding them by finding a way to resolve their differences without the war and centuries of animosity that resulted from that generation. And it is perhaps in that sense the 1st says Itachi was a better ninja than he was. Itachi not only was able to put the village about he and his clan's interets, he also was willing to recognize his limitations and enlist others to help whether it be Tobi to help with the massacre or Naruto who he has ceded the task of getting through to Sasuke to.

[Nik Hasta]

You know, this also raises the question of who's stronger: Hiruzen, Hashirama, or Minato. Minato is supposed to be the best, Hiruzen was the "God of Shinobi", and we SEE what Hashirama does!

Hashirama is the strongest. Straight up. That's not a question.

Apparently Hiruzen knew like a billion jutsu so, in his prime, he might have some potent combos to pull from. We really need to see him going all out at full power.

Minato is the young up-and-comer that accomplished a ton even though he was young as hell. If he'd gotten to Hashirama's age before dying, he might well have been approaching the guy's level.