Naruto Manga/Anime Discussion IV

[Kamina]

Even if Sasuke does another heel turn and wants to champion something other than revenge and hatred, how could he do it? No village to stand behind him now, no family to speak of, pretty sure his current teammates are using him for one reason or another... what else is left? Doubt Karen is going to forgive him for nearly killing her, no way Sakura taking him back. I hope Sasuke does some soul searching because i dont see a lot of options left for him.

Naruto would take him back, since his whole motive has been to save Sasuke from himself and if he can't do that, then he and Sasuke will die together. Yeah, if Sasuke does decide he wants to turn his life around, Naruto's pretty much gonna be his sole protection from a world that would gladly see him dead for his crimes. On that note, the only way I can imagine someone not going behind Naruto's back to get at Sasuke would be if everyone respected him and his vision of redeeming the world too much to undermine it by choosing punishment/revenge instead. If that's not the case . . . things will get ugly fast.

I don't think Sasuke's that worse off.

Sakura and Naruto might take him back. Sakura failed to kill him, and I doubt Naruto's going to fulfill his promise to end Sasuke's life. Sasuke's attempted murder of Karin resembles Kakashi murdering Rin (Karin), those two might even correlate on that if nothing else. The only persons who have seen Sasuke's "soul" change to that of a madman are us, the readers, Karin, who saw his "evil chakra", and Kurama. Maybe he'll warn Naruto about that at the next Sasuke fight.

• He abandoned Konoha, but only to hunt down a dangerous criminal (Itachi) and this resulted in the deaths of Itachi and (as far as anyone knew at the time) Orochimaru.
• He attacked Naruto, but he didn't kill him. Tsunade's tried to kill people for commenting on her bust size more than once.
• He worked for the Akatsuki, but this association didn't last long, and as a result, there are two less Akatsuki members to worry about.
• He attacked Team 7 again, but he was being misled by Tobi. Gaara and his siblings were forgiven for being part of a full-scale invasion after being misled due to Orochimaru's scheme.

He did abandon the village, and he did attack his former team mates, and he did attack the Kage (but failed) and he attempted to assassinate Danzo (but nobody liked Danzo).

Naruto's fought the Raikage, plus he and Bee both defied a direct order to stand down in the war. I guess Sasuke did attack Killer Bee, but come on, like Bee's going to hold that against him once he learns how much Naruto cares about him. There weren't any witnesses to that battle either IIRC.

He killed plenty of samurai in the anime version of Kage Summit, but Neji's death shows us how important faceless characters are compared to the main characters.

If Konoha doesn't take him back, he could always become the Snake Hermit... live among the snakes and become their chief and all that. And the legacy of the Uchiha will be passed down to another species... and a new race of Sharingan-powered reptiles will one day rule the animal kingdom.

[Rosebunse]

I think Sasuke's going to be let back in through the simple process of war fatigue, where everyone is so tired of violence and slaughter that everyone is sorta forgiven, especially if he does do something to help the Alliance.

[The Dog]

• He abandoned Konoha, but only to hunt down a dangerous criminal (Itachi) and this resulted in the deaths of Itachi and (as far as anyone knew at the time) Orochimaru.

He still abandoned a military organization, which is desertion, which is a serious crime. His desertion also resulted in serious injuries to two clan heirs, an important member of a prominent clan, and near-fatal injuries to Naruto, who only survived due to being a jinchuuriki/Uzumaki, thus being able to survive normally fatal wounds.

He also joined with a notorious traitor/man who killed the Sandaime Hokage. Hell, it's stated the only reason he's not a missing-nin is because Tsunade likes Naruto and he asked her not to.

• He attacked Naruto, but he didn't kill him. Tsunade's tried to kill people for commenting on her bust size more than once.

Well, it's not from a lack of trying. And Tsunade's attempted murders are considered 'comedic' and thus aren't in the same realm as Sasuke's, which is deemed serious.

• He worked for the Akatsuki, but this association didn't last long, and as a result, there are two less Akatsuki members to worry about.

He still worked for Akatsuki, and as a member killed Kumo nin, assaulted Kirabii and for a while was believed to have killed him.

• He attacked Team 7 again, but he was being misled by Tobi. Gaara and his siblings were forgiven for being part of a full-scale invasion after being misled due to Orochimaru's scheme.

The sand siblings were following the orders of their Kage (and Orochimaru in the guise of the Kage) so they have an out. Tobi is a notorious missing-nin and would-be world conqueror. Not exactly the same thing.

He did abandon the village, and he did attack his former team mates, and he did attack the Kage (but failed) and he attempted to assassinate Danzo (but nobody liked Danzo).

Sasuke doesn't get a pass because he FAILED to kill people. It's called 'Attempted Murder', and is a serious crime even if the target wasn't the leader of the

Naruto's fought the Raikage, plus he and Bee both defied a direct order to stand down in the war. I guess Sasuke did attack Killer Bee, but come on, like Bee's going to hold that against him once he learns how much Naruto cares about him. There weren't any witnesses to that battle either IIRC.

Naruto and Bee could be considered as 'jumping the gun', considering Shikaku called moments later and asked for them to send Naruto to the war anyways. And Naruto never really attacked the Raikage, merely dodged his attacks. As for assaulting Killer Bee, even if he forgives the guy, it's not up to him to decide whether or not to persecute Sasuke, it's the Raikage. And besides, there were witnesses, because how else did Kumo know it was Sasuke who did it.

He killed plenty of samurai in the anime version of Kage Summit, but Neji's death shows us how important faceless characters are compared to the main characters.

He attacked plenty of main characters with intent to kill, which is still a serious crime.

If Konoha doesn't take him back, he could always become the Snake Hermit... live among the snakes and become their chief and all that. And the legacy of the Uchiha will be passed down to another species... and a new race of Sharingan-powered reptiles will one day rule the animal kingdom.

So, if Konoha doesn't take him back, he should engage in beastiality?

...

EWWWW!!

[Kamina]

He still abandoned a military organization, which is desertion, which is a serious crime.

In the third Shippuden film, Kakashi left the village on his own and was still taken back.

Konoha doesn't appear as a very unforgiving military organization. Naruto hit Konohamaru right in front of the Third and that didn't earn him a day in the hole. Sasuke left, but except for Naruto, he didn't personally injure the retrieval team. The rest of the team carried out their duties and contended with each threat as it came along.

I remember the ANBU hunter-nin setup, but I doubt they'll be able to actually capture/kill Sasuke if they couldn't get Zabuza or Haku.

And like someone else said, after all this war and death, are they really going to jump on Sasuke if he decides his feud with the village is done with? How many are going to be left to bumrush a fully-realized Uchiha who has no immediate qualm with the village after this Ten-Tails business is finished?

He also joined with a notorious traitor/man who killed the Sandaime Hokage. Hell, it's stated the only reason he's not a missing-nin is because Tsunade likes Naruto and he asked her not to.

Sakura, Kiba, Shino, and Sai opted to go and handle Sasuke on their own. Sakura then lied to her team mates and used knockout gas to handle it on her own, and then she - the Hokage's own apprentice - was almost killed as a result. Sasuke's penalized for this, but Sakura's in the clear for deceiving and incapacitating her team mates.

Sasuke doesn't get a pass because he FAILED to kill people. It's called 'Attempted Murder', and is a serious crime even if the target wasn't the leader of the

Naruto and Bee could be considered as 'jumping the gun', considering Shikaku called moments later and asked for them to send Naruto to the war anyways. And Naruto never really attacked the Raikage, merely dodged his attacks. As for assaulting Killer Bee, even if he forgives the guy, it's not up to him to decide whether or not to persecute Sasuke, it's the Raikage. And besides, there were witnesses, because how else did Kumo know it was Sasuke who did it.

And Tsunade's attempted murders are considered 'comedic' and thus aren't in the same realm as Sasuke's, which is deemed serious.

It's alright for Tsunade, the woman who actively uses super strength, to knock people through walls for comedic effect. If it weren't for that, she'd be causing massive concus... heads would be exploding. Sakura's done similar things, heck, she's probably harmed Naruto far worse than any enemy has. I sympathize with the First about whether or not the village was still standing with Tsunade at it's helm and not just because Konoha was demolished under Tsunade's watch.

Naruto and Bee still defied an order and zigzagged through several Allied Ninja forces. It's just convenient that Shikaku decided to include them since they were already on their way, just like it's convenient that Bee became Naruto's friend in place of Sasuke. I guess for this to be overlooked I have to note that it's also convenient that Sasuke deserting the Hidden Leaf led to the Sound Four being destroyed.

He still worked for Akatsuki, and as a member killed Kumo nin.

Good thing nobody found out about how Hayate Gekko died. Poor chain-smoking bastard. :D

The sand siblings were following the orders of their Kage (and Orochimaru in the guise of the Kage) so they have an out. Tobi is a notorious missing-nin and would-be world conqueror. Not exactly the same thing.

Tobi's masquerading as the most dangerous ninja on Earth. Plus the real Madara *is* on the battlefield. As far as anybody who isn't Kabuto is concerned, Sasuke really was taking orders from the real Madara all along.

He attacked plenty of main characters with intent to kill, which is still a serious crime.

Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, Sai, Karin, Gaara, the Kage, and Orochimaru off the top of my head. Naruto won't care, Sakura and Kakashi won't care, Karin's a criminal to Konoha, Sai was a double agent, Gaara already tried to redeem Sasuke, Orochimaru was a terrorist, and the Kage - while certainly the most significant targets - didn't like each other much to begin with at the time. The end result was still that a major political roadblock, aka Danzo, was eliminated because of Sasuke.

The only characters who will judge him harshly are the Kage. Everybody else who matters knows what Sasuke was going through, and he can now explain that most of his actions were being manipulated by Madara (who was originally pulling the strings behind Obito) and Orochimaru. A will be the one to demand Sasuke be arrested - on what? Trying to kill them and failing, and getting rid of Danzo? It's that Danzo thing, most of the Kage will recognize Sasuke for joining a terrorist organization and leading to its downfall, and for assassinating a man that was in that their way.

If Sasuke doesn't take the seppuku option, he could be invited back into Konoha. He won't have many friends, but he didn't have that many to begin with. If not, at the very least, with the war over, they probably won't chase after him.

Then he just has to prioritize. Sasuke's goal should be getting the Uchiha clan back on their feet (but should he enforce the buddy system?). If he can't find a woman he hasn't tried to murder yet, then snakes are the only option. Implant a sharingan (no, not that way) like Itachi implanted an Amaterasu in Sasuke and Shisui's eye in Naruto... how ever he managed to do that.

[Rosebunse]

Looking at the reviews for this chapter, I'm surprised by the positive reviews this chapter is receiving.

I really love the explanation that the Uchiha are essentially mentally I'll, with what amounts to a rather extreme chemical imbalance. I felt bad for Sasuke in this chapter; he really wanted to believe that Itachi was forced into doing what he did, and then he was told that he's crazy. He's clinically nut. That's a lot for anyone to take in.

[Siriel]

Sasuke doesn't get a pass because he FAILED to kill people. It's called 'Attempted Murder', and is a serious crime

A ridiculous accusation.

"Attempted murder," now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted chemistry"?

[Kamina]

A ridiculous accusation.

"Attempted murder," now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted chemistry"?

Heh heh.

Though, I wasn't saying that Sasuke was exonerated for trying to kill someone and failing to do so. Though, I do say that we pass him on Danzo because nobody liked Danzo in the first place.

[Kage Kisaragi]

You could argue that Sasuke was defending himself against the other kages, as he was only After Danzo initially, the others interfered and we are talking about ninjas here, they are pretty much all killers, trying to say someone is a murderer out of this bunch is kind of silly. The only real crime here are personal vendettas, so you'd actually have to establish who has one against Sasuke and would pursue it to the point of open combat with him at this point to figure it out.

[Dark Soul # 7]

You could argue that Sasuke was defending himself against the other kages, as he was only After Danzo initially, the others interfered and we are talking about ninjas here, they are pretty much all killers, trying to say someone is a murderer out of this bunch is kind of silly. The only real crime here are personal vendettas, so you'd actually have to establish who has one against Sasuke and would pursue it to the point of open combat with him at this point to figure it out.

Or you could say that they were trying deal with a known criminal, perfectly valid response by the laws of the ninja world, who had already killed several people onsite and was already guilty of assault, attempted murder, murder and tresspassing all while also being guilty of desertion. Dude is in fact a criminal who has commited many "real crimes" before trying his bullshit at the kage meeting.

[Fast]

In the third Shippuden film, Kakashi left the village on his own and was still taken back.

Konoha doesn't appear as a very unforgiving military organization. Naruto hit Konohamaru right in front of the Third and that didn't earn him a day in the hole. Sasuke left, but except for Naruto, he didn't personally injure the retrieval team. The rest of the team carried out their duties and contended with each threat as it came along.

I remember the ANBU hunter-nin setup, but I doubt they'll be able to actually capture/kill Sasuke if they couldn't get Zabuza or Haku.

And like someone else said, after all this war and death, are they really going to jump on Sasuke if he decides his feud with the village is done with? How many are going to be left to bumrush a fully-realized Uchiha who has no immediate qualm with the village after this Ten-Tails business is finished?



Sakura, Kiba, Shino, and Sai opted to go and handle Sasuke on their own. Sakura then lied to her team mates and used knockout gas to handle it on her own, and then she - the Hokage's own apprentice - was almost killed as a result. Sasuke's penalized for this, but Sakura's in the clear for deceiving and incapacitating her team mates.



It's alright for Tsunade, the woman who actively uses super strength, to knock people through walls for comedic effect. If it weren't for that, she'd be causing massive concus... heads would be exploding. Sakura's done similar things, heck, she's probably harmed Naruto far worse than any enemy has. I sympathize with the First about whether or not the village was still standing with Tsunade at it's helm and not just because Konoha was demolished under Tsunade's watch.

Naruto and Bee still defied an order and zigzagged through several Allied Ninja forces. It's just convenient that Shikaku decided to include them since they were already on their way, just like it's convenient that Bee became Naruto's friend in place of Sasuke. I guess for this to be overlooked I have to note that it's also convenient that Sasuke deserting the Hidden Leaf led to the Sound Four being destroyed.



Good thing nobody found out about how Hayate Gekko died. Poor chain-smoking bastard. :D



Tobi's masquerading as the most dangerous ninja on Earth. Plus the real Madara *is* on the battlefield. As far as anybody who isn't Kabuto is concerned, Sasuke really was taking orders from the real Madara all along.



Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, Sai, Karin, Gaara, the Kage, and Orochimaru off the top of my head. Naruto won't care, Sakura and Kakashi won't care, Karin's a criminal to Konoha, Sai was a double agent, Gaara already tried to redeem Sasuke, Orochimaru was a terrorist, and the Kage - while certainly the most significant targets - didn't like each other much to begin with at the time. The end result was still that a major political roadblock, aka Danzo, was eliminated because of Sasuke.

The only characters who will judge him harshly are the Kage. Everybody else who matters knows what Sasuke was going through, and he can now explain that most of his actions were being manipulated by Madara (who was originally pulling the strings behind Obito) and Orochimaru. A will be the one to demand Sasuke be arrested - on what? Trying to kill them and failing, and getting rid of Danzo? It's that Danzo thing, most of the Kage will recognize Sasuke for joining a terrorist organization and leading to its downfall, and for assassinating a man that was in that their way.

If Sasuke doesn't take the seppuku option, he could be invited back into Konoha. He won't have many friends, but he didn't have that many to begin with. If not, at the very least, with the war over, they probably won't chase after him.

Then he just has to prioritize. Sasuke's goal should be getting the Uchiha clan back on their feet (but should he enforce the buddy system?). If he can't find a woman he hasn't tried to murder yet, then snakes are the only option. Implant a sharingan (no, not that way) like Itachi implanted an Amaterasu in Sasuke and Shisui's eye in Naruto... how ever he managed to do that.

I wouldn't be so quick to use Filler material to back up your arguments.

The Sakura thing would have gotten her in tons of trouble probably if any of the people she gassed had brought it up. I think they covered for her.

The Tsunade, Sakura punch thing is slapstick and technically has to be almost non-canon for if we take that stuff seriously we have stuff in shows like Nami able to hurt Luffy, etc.

The Sand Sibs weren't directly punished because they were following the orders of the Kazekage (they thought so) but Suna itself I'm pretty sure surrendered and were certainly sanctioned. The punishments were probably trivial because technically Orochimaru started it, Konoha was without a Kage and more focused on that, and they wanted an ally so crushing them economically would have meant 1 more village against them (Konoha until recently seems to have been hated by almost everyone else).

As for the ones you listed above the only ones who would be willing to welcome him back with open arms are Naruto and maybe Sakura. Some like Kakashi, Gaara, the Konoha 11 and others may tolerate it because of Naruto but I doubt they'll be happy and/or trusting of Sasuke's return.

I would be disappointed if Sasuke came back because it would seem to be a cop out.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Or you could say that they were trying deal with a known criminal, perfectly valid response by the laws of the ninja world, who had already killed several people onsite and was already guilty of assault, attempted murder, murder and tresspassing all while also being guilty of desertion. Dude is in fact a criminal who has commited many "real crimes" before trying his bullshit at the kage meeting.

Thats the thing, everyone in that room killed somebody for some reason or another, how is their reasoning any better than his in terms of committing murder? Bee deserted his village too and they didn't punish him when they found out he was alive? The fact that he felt it was okay to do this tells us a lot about his since of loyalty to his village and his obedience to the raikage. All im saying is everyone in the ninja world considered a assassin, a murderer, therefore the laws that govern us hardly apply. If someone attacks you regardless of what your past aggression were you are going to defend yourself. If you are dead set on doing something and someone gets in your way you are probably going to take them out. The only real crime here is desertion. The way i see it the ninja world isn't all that different from the Drow Cities in Forgotten Realms. Do whatever you want, just don't get caught, if you do then the law will come down on you, which is really just the most powerful ninjas being told to take you down.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Thats the thing, everyone in that room killed somebody for some reason or another, how is their reasoning any better than his in terms of committing murder? Bee deserted his village too and they didn't punish him when they found out he was alive? The fact that he felt it was okay to do this tells us a lot about his since of loyalty to his village and his obedience to the raikage. All im saying is everyone in the ninja world considered a assassin, a murderer, therefore the laws that govern us hardly apply. If someone attacks you regardless of what your past aggression were you are going to defend yourself. If you are dead set on doing something and someone gets in your way you are probably going to take them out. The only real crime here is desertion. The way i see it the ninja world isn't all that different from the Drow Cities in Forgotten Realms. Do whatever you want, just don't get caught, if you do then the law will come down on you, which is really just the most powerful ninjas being told to take you down.

While our laws may not apply to them they must certainly have laws to govern their huge military organisations. Especially in what seems to be a pretty peaceful time between the villages. One of those laws is most certainly that deserting a village makes you an outlaw in that village, the only reason Sasuke wasn't declared a missing-nin on the spot was because of Tsunade being nice to Naruto. As for Killer Bee, unlike Sasuke he didn't join up with an enemy of the village and he never attacked anybody who didn't attack him. His actions were most definately an inconvenience but not outright treason like what Sasuke pulled. And being a missing-nin pretty much means that Sasuke is a criminal, anything he does is a criminal activity.

Yes, other ninja who are viewed as good guys to the reader are as much trained killers as Sasuke and from a moral stand point they might not be any better. But they're either killing in war times and if they're not they're backed up by a huge organisation that wants to preserve peace as far as possible while stilling looking out for their own interests. It's not a perfect system, as the narrative has beaten into our heads by now, but that's just the way it works.

[Assassin Spider]

While our laws may not apply to them they must certainly have laws to govern their huge military organisations. Especially in what seems to be a pretty peaceful time between the villages. One of those laws is most certainly that deserting a village makes you an outlaw in that village, the only reason Sasuke wasn't declared a missing-nin on the spot was because of Tsunade being nice to Naruto. As for Killer Bee, unlike Sasuke he didn't join up with an enemy of the village and he never attacked anybody who didn't attack him. His actions were most definately an inconvenience but not outright treason like what Sasuke pulled. And being a missing-nin pretty much means that Sasuke is a criminal, anything he does is a criminal activity.

Yes, other ninja who are viewed as good guys to the reader are as much trained killers as Sasuke and from a moral stand point they might not be any better. But they're either killing in war times and if they're not they're backed up by a huge organisation that wants to preserve peace as far as possible while stilling looking out for their own interests. It's not a perfect system, as the narrative has beaten into our heads by now, but that's just the way it works.

And as the narrative has been telling us since the resolution of Naruto's battle with Pain/Nagato, that doesn't even work that well and never really has. It works well for temporary ceasefires, but the anger and pain and bitterness from lost loved ones as a result of these conflicts linger long after the actual combat's finished and those same feelings of anger and pain and bitterness fester into a desire for vengeance that is ultimately acted upon to the absolute destructive detriment of everyone caught up in it. Also, as Danzo's history and the backlash thereof shows, acting in what one thinks are one's own personal best interests with absolute disregard for the best interests of others if their interests conflict with one's own personal desires or ambitions does nothing but create worse problems in the long term. The old ninja way of lying and cheating and murdering your way to personal security and prosperity for your village (or yourself) created the current problems and so there has to be a new ninja way of interdependence and cooperation between villages (born of enlightened self-interest or not) if they don't want the world to eventually be destroyed by all the old grudges that have been festering all this time.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Sasuke's got a really good insanity defense ready seeing as how, on top of being an Uchiha, he was mind raped really hard, twice, by the guy that murdered his family. Not to mention the years he spent with the bloodlust increasing curse seal that was forcibly placed on him by the ninja equivalent of Dr. Mengele.

[Miburohunter929]

New Naruto.

So, apparently Oro sucked at this Jutsu last time, which explains how the Kages sucked ass last time we saw them.

Tobi and Hastag (Copyright to Nik I thing) are hardcore as fuck, though.

Also, I wonder what Oro really shit on the village about---Assuming its not the Kage thing.