Naruto Manga/Anime Discussion IV

[Assassin Spider]

Obito is not the only one in the manga who's lost someone held dear, yet he's the only one who's flipped out and become an inhumanly evil villain literally over night. Just doesn't work against the backdrop of the world and people of the manga.

Technically inaccurate. Gaara flipped out when the one person who'd shown him any love and kindness "revealed" that he was lying to him all along and hated him from the start, leading him to conclude that love was a lie and the only validation to his existence could be found in painting the walls with the blood of anybody who crossed his path. Pain/Nagato responded to the death of his beloved best friend by massacring not only the man directly responsible but also pretty much everyone associated with him and plotting to force the world to "behave" by combining the Tailed Beasts into a pseudo-nuclear Sword of Damocles that would go off if and when the violence inherent to human nature became too excessive. Sasuke reacted to the knowledge that the brother he'd vengefully killed for murdering their entire family was actually trying to protect him all along and acting for the good of a village that scorned him as a criminal and a psychopath by deciding that every last man, woman, and child in that village had to die since they all "profited" from said brother's sacrifice without showing the proper gratitude. All three of them have done some pretty horrifically evil stuff in the name of their pain and/or desire for vengeance on the world that caused it, but at least two of them were redeemed (one in death, even) and the third may well follow their examples yet.

[The Dog]

Technically inaccurate. Gaara flipped out when the one person who'd shown him any love and kindness "revealed" that he was lying to him all along and hated him from the start, leading him to conclude that love was a lie and the only validation to his existence could be found in painting the walls with the blood of anybody who crossed his path. Pain/Nagato responded to the death of his beloved best friend by massacring not only the man directly responsible but also pretty much everyone associated with him and plotting to force the world to "behave" by combining the Tailed Beasts into a pseudo-nuclear Sword of Damocles that would go off if and when the violence inherent to human nature became too excessive. Sasuke reacted to the knowledge that the brother he'd vengefully killed for murdering their entire family was actually trying to protect him all along and acting for the good of a village that scorned him as a criminal and a psychopath by deciding that every last man, woman, and child in that village had to die since they all "profited" from said brother's sacrifice without showing the proper gratitude. All three of them have done some pretty horrifically evil stuff in the name of their pain and/or desire for vengeance on the world that caused it, but at least two of them were redeemed (one in death, even) and the third may well follow their examples yet.

To be fair, Gaara was already mentally unstable well before Yashamaru 'revealed' that he and his mother hated him, with that love from Yashamaru being the only thing keeping him sane. Nagato lost his parents due to Konoha nin accidentally murdering them, then Jiraiya pretty much running out on him and his friends, and finally having said beloved best friend throwing himself onto a kunai he was holding to save their other friend before going insane. As for Sasuke, he was mindraped by said brother at the age of 8, and then again at 13 as he was showing signs of getting better. Then he spent 3 years with Orochimaru with the cursed seal screwing with him.

Obito was basically Naruto without the social and emotional abuse until he saw Kakashi killing Rin, and all at once snapped. Not really the same.

[Hazard]

Obito was basically Naruto without the social and emotional abuse until he saw Kakashi killing Rin, and all at once snapped. Not really the same.

Of course it is not. The motivation is different and the realization is different, and thus Obito is different from villains like axe crazy Gaara, revenge obsessed Sasuke, and blow everything up Nagato (though being fair, Nagato is also different from Gaara and Sasuke.)

Or to put it simply, Obito is not primarily motivated because he lost something.

[flashdisk]

Obito's motivations have to be expanded a bit. I really want to know why Obito loved Rin so much that he's willing to end the world. I also want to know why he threw away the love and care he had for others.


I'm also hoping for a more badass Obito. I don't think 'not caring' has enough passion in it to end the world.

[Hazard]

Obito's motivations have to be expanded a bit. I really want to know why Obito loved Rin so much that he's willing to end the world. I also want to know why he threw away the love and care he had for others.

...

I want to bang my head against the wall now.

I feel like DBA Frieza, only I don't have a sack of dumb puppies.

[The Transient Guest]

...

I want to bang my head against the wall now.

I feel like DBA Frieza, only I don't have a sack of dumb puppies.

I got you covered dog...er....Hazmat.

Obito's motivations have to be expanded a bit. I really want to know why Obito loved Rin so much that he's willing to end the world. I also want to know why he threw away the love and care he had for others.

Here, read this.

Okay.....I think I can do this.

Flash. I have no idea bout issue numbers because I'm bad at that but I can remember conversations pretty well. So when Tobito was first injured and being healed by Madara, Madara was giving him the entire spiel about how the world is so unfair and horrible because with winners, losers, and people are teh suck and all that stuff.

The entire time Tobito is resisting putting any faith into that because the world is a good place, with friends that protect and care about each other. Where a no name ninja can rise from being the worst member of his clan to being powerful enough to protect his friends, among them a girl he cares about, and become the hokage of his village.
All that is possible, all that matters. So he gets better after a lot of hard work and then finds out that his friends are in trouble.

Holy hell this is entirely what he's been training for, the chance to help his best friend protect his other best friend. That's his meaning of life.

Then he gets to the battle and finds the scene he found. What with the impalement and all that. Not only was he not able to do the single most important thing in his life, not only did his best friend break the single most important promise he had ever made, but all that work and recovery and pain he suffered through was for nothing.

Zero. What kind of world is it where a friend can kill a friend? What kind of world is it where all that pain is meaningless?

It's a hollow, empty one that means nothing to him. So what's wrong with making a world where friends don't kill friends? Where promises don't get broken.


Alright, if you can read all that and only see "rin died" then......I just don't know what else to say.

Pancakes?

[The Once And Forever]

Transient, you are absolutely wonderful.

[Miburohunter929]

On that note...

New Naruto.

Oh god lol.

I'm not sure if that was timing, or one hell of a backfiring plan.

Either way, I love how casual Madara and Obito are.

(I also am not entirely sure if Kakashi didn't take the kill for CIS/PIS (CIS much more so, I'd think) or if he just knew he didn't have enough in his tank)

[The Transient Guest]

Transient, you are absolutely wonderful.

Just trying to help. And doing a good job at it.

I'm not sure if that was timing, or one hell of a backfiring plan.

Timing. It was full on DBZ with the bad guy getting hit and smoke and then being in his new more powerful form. That and there were cracks appearing before they fired.

Either way, I love how casual Madara and Obito are.

I'm wondering what that last line meant. spoilers:

"The most terrible dream starts."

end of spoilers

That makes it sound so....foregone.

[Miburohunter929]

Also: I get the slight feeling that Gai's Afternoon Tiger actually gave Madara a tough time--as much as one can give Madara--given he was awol for a minute, and Bee and Naruto were able to fuck about.

..That and Madara's wood went limp.

GAI FOR MVP.

[Nik Hasta]

My only thought for this chapter was; "Phase his lower body so Kakashi can kick him in the crotch!"

Literally my only thought.

GAI FOR MVP.

Also this, because Gai is the man.

Even Killer Bee is like; "Damn, these Leaf Shinobi are hardcore!"

[Hazard]

Heh, good old Kyuubi.

That's one big menacing ball.

Got to say, Madara looks disappointed in that last panel. Kind of like "Oh well, fun's over."

[flashdisk]

Its nice to see the Juubi. I think it was the best way to up the ante. It was timely as well, since Obito was having some difficulty with Naruto and Kakashi. It would have also been anticlimactic if the Juubi never showed up.

It will be interesitng to see what the next chapters will show.

[Jay Dogg]

LOL @ "Oh well..."

[Kamina]

My only thought for this chapter was; "Phase his lower body so Kakashi can kick him in the crotch!"

Literally my only thought.

Watching the mutant fox demon use Kakashi as a billy club is the funniest thing I have ever seen in this manga. XD

Also this, because Gai is the man.

Even Killer Bee is like; "Damn, these Leaf Shinobi are hardcore!"

I thought that was the Eight-Tails talking? I mean, what did Gai do this chapter? I saw him getting crushed by the giant wood snake/dragon thing.

Got to say, Madara looks disappointed in that last panel. Kind of like "Oh well, fun's over."

What in the world was Madara doing during this chapter? I'm going to have re-read this, because I know he was controlling the dragon, but Obito just got ganked and Madara was somewhere else chilling like a baller?

Its nice to see the Juubi. I think it was the best way to up the ante. It was timely as well, since Obito was having some difficulty with Naruto and Kakashi. It would have also been anticlimactic if the Juubi never showed up.

Little too timely. So... Madara stole the bulk of the Fox's chakra and used it to revive the statue?

Orochimaru better have like an H-bomb or a Black Hole Jutsu hidden away in one of his labs. I mean, the Eight-Tails and the Nine-Tails just nuked the Mazou and did nothing to it.

And so now this Eye of the Moon is coming to fruition!?

Hrh-hrm.

I bet AlternateReality!Naruto is gonna have a kick-ass childhood until Minato, Kurama, Kushina, or Sasuke walks into the dream and frees him. BUT WAIT, if the two beasts and their chakra weren't collected, then the Infinite Tsukuyomi might not be powerful enough to enslave everybody. And maybe THAT'S how Sasuke will save the day - only Sharingans can see through the illusion!