CBR: Pipeline - Dec 13, 2011

[CBR News]

Augie has an idea that would keep comic prices down, promote regular creative teams and save publishing companies money. Also, a look back at Rob Liefeld's first issues of "New Mutants."


Full article here.

[coy_dog0]

I love to hate on Rob Liefeld as much as the next guy, but I find his work on New Mutants, X-Force and even Youngblood to be endlessly entertaining. I prefer the innocence and fun of these comics to the self conscious, pretentious work of Bendis and company.

Liefeld should have developed as an artist, but since he never did, he became something of an industry joke. That does not take away from my enjoyment of his early collaborations with Louise Simonson and Fabian Nicieza.

[cookepuss]

I prefer the innocence and fun of these comics to the self conscious, pretentious work of Bendis and company.

That might be nostalgia speaking there. The New Mutants had fun and did a bunch of wacky things, but the book was hardly so innocent. Some highlights over the years...

- Sunspot bore witness to his girlfriend Julianna being gunned down
- Wolfsbane was being targeted by a lynch mob
- Karma got possessed and tried to kill her friends
- Warlock was running from his dad who wanted to fight him to the death
- The kids failed to save another young mutant, Larry Bodine, who committed suicide when he thought that mutant hunters were going to round him up.
- Doug got gunned down after trying to save Rahne from a madman
- Illyana just about sacrificed her soul fighting off a demon invasion. Actually, iirc, she sacrificed her life - leaving a younger incarnation of herself behind. (It was that younger one who died from the Legacy Virus.)
- Rahne became a mutant slave on Genosha
- Warlock got killed by Cameron Hodge
- The whole frickin' team got killed by the Beyonder only to be resurrected as practically soulless incarnations of their pre-death selves.

If you think about it, there's a lot of death in that "innocent" comic. Claremont & Simonson always kept the kids on their toes and running from the reaper.


For me, the book took a noticeable dive in quality the issue right after Inferno ended. It was at that point that they brought on the X-Terminators like Boom Boom, Rictor, Rusty, & Skids. They were never really a decent replacement for the original core 9. For me, it was right about issue 74 where New Mutants slowly started morphing into X-Force. Of course, X-Force, even as a book all its own, never really deviated too far from the New Mutants formula. Early on, they did their own thing. However, it really wasn't too long until started to bring the old NM cast back into the fold. In a bit of symmetry, it was more or less around the same time during X-Force's run that they started to morph back into the New Mutants. That road trip issue of X-Force alone could just as easily fit into the current run of New Mutants. (Not surprising, but Warren Ellis' run turned them back into a militant strike force. Until thier book got hijacked by the X-Statix.)

[rufusTfirefly]

Just a quick comment, if I could, and has nothing to do with my general feeling of malaise towards Rob Liefelds art...

Augie, you seem to be for Marvel re-coloring their art digitally, but from what I've seen so far, I just can't stand it. The older the work, the worse it seems to look. Parts of the Walt Simonson Thor book look a little odd, but from what I've seen of some of Jack Kirby's re-colored Tales of Asgard series, it just looks absolutely horrendous! Let's face it, these books were never intended to be colored this way with shadings and blends on the colors, and I find it way too jarring when I try to read. These pages were drawn with flat line work where the line was intended to break the colors up. It just looks crappy to me when they do it, like Technicolor vomit. The re-colored covers on the Marvel Masterworks TPB's have that same effect...

That's just my opinion though...

[drinkblatzbeer]

i know i have these issues stashed away in a box somewhere, but i just ordered this hardcover anyways...gonna be a fun read...

[Alex6166]

I remember the issue where Wolverine was in and it was a big deal because Cable was a new popular character and it was sold out. I still don't have a copy. I'll have to look for it at the next convention.

I really did like the stuff Liefeld did in those issues. It had a thing and he was a decent story teller.

[cookepuss]

I really did like the stuff Liefeld did in those issues. It had a thing and he was a decent story teller.

He really wasn't though. Then man was and IS still a bad artist. You can go as far back to his original New Mutants issues and you'll notice that his work is all tragically wrong. Worse than that, I actually think that he's gotten worse over the years.

Here's a quick rundown somebody put together a few years back: http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/robliefeld.html

Pretty funny and oh so true. The man knows nothing about anatomy and literally cares not one bit about correcting obvious errors. Where Greg Land basically just traces and hopes nobody notices, Liefeld actually tries, fails miserably, and happily cashes his pay anyway.

Liefeld became a hot commodity by cashing in that that decade's general love for the sort of intricate line work done by his contemporaries - guys like Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, and Art Adams. Whereas those guys could draw, Liefeld cannot. He'll either hide his weaknesses or errors, as if nobody's supposed to notice, or he'll just push it out there regardless of quality. He's a glorified version of that guy you know in school - the one who draws the most awesome stuff in his text books. He's a professional only in the sense that he collects a paycheck. Talent-wise, that's a whole other story.

[minusthesnake]

I usually like to stay positive when I comment on things, but this time I refuse. Your commentary on digital comps is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read and Rob Liefeld is an embarrassingly untalented artist. I hope CBR fires you and fills the position with someone with (at least) an ounce of talent. Good riddance!

[Sharcque]

I usually like to stay positive when I comment on things, but this time I refuse. Your commentary on digital comps is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read and Rob Liefeld is an embarrassingly untalented artist. I hope CBR fires you and fills the position with someone with (at least) an ounce of talent. Good riddance!

Dude writes an article you don't agree with and you call him stupid, drop an F-bomb and you want him fired? You got issues.

[rufusTfirefly]

Dude writes an article you don't agree with and you call him stupid, drop an F-bomb and you want him fired? You got issues.

Dude's got subscriptions!

[minusthesnake]

Dude's got subscriptions!

Now that was a good comeback!

[defchild]

Have to disagree with Augie and agree with Rufus:

I don't think we're spoiled by modern coloring unless you're talking about spoiled milk. Not only do I think recoloring older art with new techniques looks murky, but I also think some of the new art gives too much reign to the colorist.

It's too the point that on many books the purpose of the coloring is to make you forget you're looking at drawings. Sure, the lighting effects are often pretty cool, but I don't want to my comics to look like they were created by Industrial Light and Magic. I prefer the artists who have a strong graphic sense to their work, such as Francis Manapul, Chris Samnee, Francisco Francavilla (who colors himself), Paulo Rivera, and Marcos Martin.

[drinkblatzbeer]

who knows if anyone will even continue this thread, but i was just thinking...another thing that made liefeld's early marvel years great, and i was like 12 or 13 at the time so i guess there's that different perspective...but...he introduced a bunch of what i thought were really cool characters and story lines...even youngblood had that feel at first until everything that came out by him afterwards felt watered down...still, i think that made him really great at the time...it doesn't seem like we'll ever get anything to that effect again, as most guys like to keep their creations and market them themselves...

[dancj]

It's too the point that on many books the purpose of the coloring is to make you forget you're looking at drawings. Sure, the lighting effects are often pretty cool, but I don't want to my comics to look like they were created by Industrial Light and Magic. I prefer the artists who have a strong graphic sense to their work, such as Francis Manapul, Chris Samnee, Francisco Francavilla (who colors himself), Paulo Rivera, and Marcos Martin.

It all depends on the artist. I wouldn't want mad photoshop effects on Mike Mignola, Eduardo Risso, Steve Rude, Tim Sale etc.

On most typical superhero artists though - as long as the colourist is good - modern colouring techniques are a huge improvement.

Francis Manapul who you mentioned is a great example. He is an excellent artist, but the Brian Buccellato's colouring over the top is fantastic. He uses computer colouring, but gives the book an almost watercolour feel.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

I usually like to stay positive when I comment on things, but this time I refuse. Your commentary on digital comps is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read and Rob Liefeld is an embarrassingly untalented artist. I hope CBR fires you and fills the position with someone with (at least) an ounce of talent. Good riddance!

Thanks for your comments. It's been far too long since I last felt the warmth of a flame on a message board. I'm happy to have moved you in some way with my writing last week.

-Augie, Fuck Yeah!

P.S. I still have both of my jobs here at CBR. You'll need to start a better petition to get what you want here...