CBR: Sales Estimates for November, 2011 - DC, Marvel Gap Closes

[CBR News]

DC Comics' "Justice League" remains on top of the sales chart while Marvel increases it's position over October in both units and dollars, significantly closing the gap between it and DC.


Full article here.

[SpideyCzar]

Seems the 2nd, 3rd tier characters of DC are shedding readers dramatically. I wonder if this is more of the New 52 speculator boom, or if the the quality of the titles weren't good enough to keep readers on the non top flight characters, or more known characters...

[Blade X]

Seems the 2nd, 3rd tier characters of DC are shedding readers dramatically. I wonder if this is more of the New 52 speculator boom, or if the the quality of the titles weren't good enough to keep readers on the non top flight characters, or more known characters...

Most likely a little bit of both.

[Nick Soapdish]

Seems the 2nd, 3rd tier characters of DC are shedding readers dramatically. I wonder if this is more of the New 52 speculator boom, or if the the quality of the titles weren't good enough to keep readers on the non top flight characters, or more known characters...

I think that more than half of it is just the normal reader attrition for new books.

[Kick-Ass]

Marvel closes gap? Called it, from the thread: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=387866

"True quality can only be measured in sales. Since personal opinion and likeability is all subjective, the only way to get a true reading of quality is sales. (Not talking personal tastes and opinions, just facts)

After all DC has done recently, to get back in the game, and barely taking the lead in sales for September in what seems like the first time ever, and if after all that work, they cannot keep the lead they've taken? Well then the facts will show that Marvel is a better company.

Better chatacters.

Better storylines.

Better Creators.

Better universe where stories are told.

The fact that Marvel outsells DC is the only valid proof in the great debate. (Based on fact, not opinion)

The fact that Marvel makes more comics and sells more actually points to Marvel being capable of creating more books their fans want and selling them. When a company is more popular, they can create more books. If they're popularity dies, they will create less books.

(So when fans claim that Marvel "only sells more books because they make more books," this truly points to the fact that Marvel is a more successful brand with fans and entertaining them)

These thoughts are in the back of every true Marvel fans minds. Always knowing that DC is inferior in general, but not sure how to express it.

They're popularity relies heavily on 1 character: Batman. By example, DC has grown his popularity into many successful books like: Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batman & Robin, Catwoman, Red Hood, Batwing, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, JLA, Batman: The Dark Knight, Penguin, & Batman: Earth One. All ONE characters spinoffs.

Marvel's success comes from multiple characters and their storylines, largely dependent on the likeability of: Avengers characters, X-Men characters, and Spider-Man characters. This well established universe of characters and stories provides a wealth of entertainment that month after month, more fans/readers show up for in mass. Marvel is a better company because more fans allow Marvel to be more successful than DC.

But if DC can't succeed after all this? Time to give props to the BEST comic book company in the biz. MARVEL, baby. Your Universe!

(This thread is for discussion on how the new DC sales initiative impacts the greatest comics debate, of which company truly is, the definitive BEST)"

[thwhtGuardian]

Marvel closes gap? Called it, from the thread: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=387866

"True quality can only be measured in sales. Since personal opinion and likeability is all subjective, the only way to get a true reading of quality is sales. (Not talking personal tastes and opinions, just facts)

After all DC has done recently, to get back in the game, and barely taking the lead in sales for September in what seems like the first time ever, and if after all that work, they cannot keep the lead they've taken? Well then the facts will show that Marvel is a better company.

Better chatacters.

Better storylines.

Better Creators.

Better universe where stories are told.

The fact that Marvel outsells DC is the only valid proof in the great debate. (Based on fact, not opinion)

The fact that Marvel makes more comics and sells more actually points to Marvel being capable of creating more books their fans want and selling them. When a company is more popular, they can create more books. If they're popularity dies, they will create less books.

(So when fans claim that Marvel "only sells more books because they make more books," this truly points to the fact that Marvel is a more successful brand with fans and entertaining them)

These thoughts are in the back of every true Marvel fans minds. Always knowing that DC is inferior in general, but not sure how to express it.

They're popularity relies heavily on 1 character: Batman. By example, DC has grown his popularity into many successful books like: Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batman & Robin, Catwoman, Red Hood, Batwing, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, JLA, Batman: The Dark Knight, Penguin, & Batman: Earth One. All ONE characters spinoffs.

Marvel's success comes from multiple characters and their storylines, largely dependent on the likeability of: Avengers characters, X-Men characters, and Spider-Man characters. This well established universe of characters and stories provides a wealth of entertainment that month after month, more fans/readers show up for in mass. Marvel is a better company because more fans allow Marvel to be more successful than DC.

But if DC can't succeed after all this? Time to give props to the BEST comic book company in the biz. MARVEL, baby. Your Universe!

(This thread is for discussion on how the new DC sales initiative impacts the greatest comics debate, of which company truly is, the definitive BEST)"

Man, I had no idea there were still people who are so adamant about the fictional Marvel/DC dick measuring contest.

[ZeoVGM]

Marvel closes gap? Called it, from the thread: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=387866

"True quality can only be measured in sales. Since personal opinion and likeability is all subjective, the only way to get a true reading of quality is sales. (Not talking personal tastes and opinions, just facts)

After all DC has done recently, to get back in the game, and barely taking the lead in sales for September in what seems like the first time ever, and if after all that work, they cannot keep the lead they've taken? Well then the facts will show that Marvel is a better company.

Better chatacters.

Better storylines.

Better Creators.

Better universe where stories are told.

The fact that Marvel outsells DC is the only valid proof in the great debate. (Based on fact, not opinion)

The fact that Marvel makes more comics and sells more actually points to Marvel being capable of creating more books their fans want and selling them. When a company is more popular, they can create more books. If they're popularity dies, they will create less books.

(So when fans claim that Marvel "only sells more books because they make more books," this truly points to the fact that Marvel is a more successful brand with fans and entertaining them)

These thoughts are in the back of every true Marvel fans minds. Always knowing that DC is inferior in general, but not sure how to express it.

They're popularity relies heavily on 1 character: Batman. By example, DC has grown his popularity into many successful books like: Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batman & Robin, Catwoman, Red Hood, Batwing, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, JLA, Batman: The Dark Knight, Penguin, & Batman: Earth One. All ONE characters spinoffs.

Marvel's success comes from multiple characters and their storylines, largely dependent on the likeability of: Avengers characters, X-Men characters, and Spider-Man characters. This well established universe of characters and stories provides a wealth of entertainment that month after month, more fans/readers show up for in mass. Marvel is a better company because more fans allow Marvel to be more successful than DC.

But if DC can't succeed after all this? Time to give props to the BEST comic book company in the biz. MARVEL, baby. Your Universe!

(This thread is for discussion on how the new DC sales initiative impacts the greatest comics debate, of which company truly is, the definitive BEST)"

Wow, congratulations on saying something many other people said because it was obvious.

Give yourself a cookie!

[2 Up 2 Down]

well outside of Daredevil I just can't get into Marvel anymore. Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Captain Atom, Batwoman, OMAC, and I, Vampire keeps me plenty pleased.

[Nova2814.1]

Marvel closes gap? Called it, from the thread: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=387866

"True quality can only be measured in sales. Since personal opinion and likeability is all subjective, the only way to get a true reading of quality is sales. (Not talking personal tastes and opinions, just facts)

After all DC has done recently, to get back in the game, and barely taking the lead in sales for September in what seems like the first time ever, and if after all that work, they cannot keep the lead they've taken? Well then the facts will show that Marvel is a better company.

Better chatacters.

Better storylines.

Better Creators.

Better universe where stories are told.

The fact that Marvel outsells DC is the only valid proof in the great debate. (Based on fact, not opinion)

The fact that Marvel makes more comics and sells more actually points to Marvel being capable of creating more books their fans want and selling them. When a company is more popular, they can create more books. If they're popularity dies, they will create less books.

(So when fans claim that Marvel "only sells more books because they make more books," this truly points to the fact that Marvel is a more successful brand with fans and entertaining them)

These thoughts are in the back of every true Marvel fans minds. Always knowing that DC is inferior in general, but not sure how to express it.

They're popularity relies heavily on 1 character: Batman. By example, DC has grown his popularity into many successful books like: Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batman & Robin, Catwoman, Red Hood, Batwing, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, JLA, Batman: The Dark Knight, Penguin, & Batman: Earth One. All ONE characters spinoffs.

Marvel's success comes from multiple characters and their storylines, largely dependent on the likeability of: Avengers characters, X-Men characters, and Spider-Man characters. This well established universe of characters and stories provides a wealth of entertainment that month after month, more fans/readers show up for in mass. Marvel is a better company because more fans allow Marvel to be more successful than DC.

But if DC can't succeed after all this? Time to give props to the BEST comic book company in the biz. MARVEL, baby. Your Universe!

(This thread is for discussion on how the new DC sales initiative impacts the greatest comics debate, of which company truly is, the definitive BEST)"

As I pointed out in the other thread, DC completely trounce Marvel in US bookstore sales. For every one graphic novel Marvel sells, DC sells three. Seeing as how there are more bookstores than comic stores, does that make DC better over all?

And Marvel's numbers here are inflated by the double shipping of Point One. Roughly 55 to 60,000 copies of Point One were given away for free. And as a six dollar book, that would have a noticeable effect on the dollar share.

And finally, DC's result also assume a certain level of returns that may not happen. If fewer comics are returned than expected, the gap widens. Conversely if more comics are returned than expected, the gap narrows. It may be a bit premature to "celebrate" yet.

Not that I buy into any of this DC vs Marvel malarkey. I don't care who publishes what I read, as long as it's enjoyable and good value for money. But if you're going to insist that a given publisher is best because of sales, then get your facts right.

[Shellhead]

Marvel closes gap? Called it, from the thread: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=387866

"True quality can only be measured in sales. Since personal opinion and likeability is all subjective, the only way to get a true reading of quality is sales. (Not talking personal tastes and opinions, just facts)

After all DC has done recently, to get back in the game, and barely taking the lead in sales for September in what seems like the first time ever, and if after all that work, they cannot keep the lead they've taken? Well then the facts will show that Marvel is a better company.

Better chatacters.

Better storylines.

Better Creators.

Better universe where stories are told.

The fact that Marvel outsells DC is the only valid proof in the great debate. (Based on fact, not opinion)

The fact that Marvel makes more comics and sells more actually points to Marvel being capable of creating more books their fans want and selling them. When a company is more popular, they can create more books. If they're popularity dies, they will create less books.

(So when fans claim that Marvel "only sells more books because they make more books," this truly points to the fact that Marvel is a more successful brand with fans and entertaining them)

These thoughts are in the back of every true Marvel fans minds. Always knowing that DC is inferior in general, but not sure how to express it.

They're popularity relies heavily on 1 character: Batman. By example, DC has grown his popularity into many successful books like: Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batman & Robin, Catwoman, Red Hood, Batwing, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, JLA, Batman: The Dark Knight, Penguin, & Batman: Earth One. All ONE characters spinoffs.

Marvel's success comes from multiple characters and their storylines, largely dependent on the likeability of: Avengers characters, X-Men characters, and Spider-Man characters. This well established universe of characters and stories provides a wealth of entertainment that month after month, more fans/readers show up for in mass. Marvel is a better company because more fans allow Marvel to be more successful than DC.

But if DC can't succeed after all this? Time to give props to the BEST comic book company in the biz. MARVEL, baby. Your Universe!

(This thread is for discussion on how the new DC sales initiative impacts the greatest comics debate, of which company truly is, the definitive BEST)"

Get real. The comics are only as good as the creative teams, and over time, most artists and writers end up working for both DC and Marvel. The only important difference between the two companies is the Vertigo line at DC, which has more experimental and intelligent comics than the usual mediocre superhero fare.

Otherwise, DC and Marvel are both publishing the same over-priced, decompressed spandex slugfests, and the industry is in decline. The real point of DC's reboot was to provide a good entry point for new and returning readers, and the real point of the entry point was the launch of the digital product line. Everybody, even hardcore Marvel zombies like yourself should be hoping that digital format works out, because that's the best hope for the future of comic books.

[dupont2005]

True quality can only be measured in sales.

Move over, Motzart! Bieber Fever just swept in.

[Greengo]

As I pointed out in the other thread, DC completely trounce Marvel in US bookstore sales. For every one graphic novel Marvel sells, DC sells three. Seeing as how there are more bookstores than comic stores, does that make DC better over all?

And Marvel's numbers here are inflated by the double shipping of Point One. Roughly 55 to 60,000 copies of Point One were given away for free. And as a six dollar book, that would have a noticeable effect on the dollar share.

And finally, DC's result also assume a certain level of returns that may not happen. If fewer comics are returned than expected, the gap widens. Conversely if more comics are returned than expected, the gap narrows. It may be a bit premature to "celebrate" yet.

Not that I buy into any of this DC vs Marvel malarkey. I don't care who publishes what I read, as long as it's enjoyable and good value for money. But if you're going to insist that a given publisher is best because of sales, then get your facts right.

I agree with the malarky part, but also there is some flaw in your "facts" in the books department..and keeping with "get your facts right". Marvel last year left Diamond for Hachette for all Bookstore distributions and DC uses Random House, I believe. Anyways, these book numbers are to Comic Stores only, which of course DC still did better, just letting you know that we don't know what the Book Store numbers are. Also to use the same argument, DC shipped more TI in trades than Marvel did.
Anyways I enjoy books from both DC and Marvel and both companies use Reboots/Events to help sell comics/push product..make money.

[Brandon Hanvey]

Anyways, these book numbers are to Comic Stores only, which of course DC still did better, just letting you know that we don't know what the Book Store numbers are.

Thanks to Brian Hibbs' yearly look at the BookScan numbers, we do know the Book market numbers for comics.

2010 numbers
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=30752

The basic breakdown:

#1 Viz -- $35m
#2 DC -- $26m
#3 Marvel -- $20m
#4 Random House -- $12m
#5 Dark Horse -- $10m
#6 Hachette -- $10m
#7 TokyoPop -- $9m
#8 Image -- $8m
#9 Oni Press -- $6m
#10 Scholastic -- $4m

[Nova2814.1]

I agree with the malarky part, but also there is some flaw in your "facts" in the books department..and keeping with "get your facts right". Marvel last year left Diamond for Hachette for all Bookstore distributions and DC uses Random House, I believe. Anyways, these book numbers are to Comic Stores only, which of course DC still did better, just letting you know that we don't know what the Book Store numbers are. Also to use the same argument, DC shipped more TI in trades than Marvel did.
Anyways I enjoy books from both DC and Marvel and both companies use Reboots/Events to help sell comics/push product..make money.

The bookstore numbers I'm referring to are based on the Bookscan data that Brian Hibbs looks at every year. Bookscan reports on sell though to customers in about 70% of US bookstores, so it's a fairly accurate indicator of what sells. His most recent article is here - http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=30752. FYI, there's a typo in the DC table, where the 2009 results are left out and the 2010 are labelled 2009. It's a good read, it's a shame there isn't anything like it for non US Markets.

[Heroid]

Marvel closes gap? Called it, from the thread: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=387866

"True quality can only be measured in sales. Since personal opinion and likeability is all subjective, the only way to get a true reading of quality is sales. (Not talking personal tastes and opinions, just facts)

After all DC has done recently, to get back in the game, and barely taking the lead in sales for September in what seems like the first time ever, and if after all that work, they cannot keep the lead they've taken? Well then the facts will show that Marvel is a better company.

Better chatacters.

Better storylines.

Better Creators.

Better universe where stories are told.

The fact that Marvel outsells DC is the only valid proof in the great debate. (Based on fact, not opinion)

The fact that Marvel makes more comics and sells more actually points to Marvel being capable of creating more books their fans want and selling them. When a company is more popular, they can create more books. If they're popularity dies, they will create less books.

(So when fans claim that Marvel "only sells more books because they make more books," this truly points to the fact that Marvel is a more successful brand with fans and entertaining them)

These thoughts are in the back of every true Marvel fans minds. Always knowing that DC is inferior in general, but not sure how to express it.

They're popularity relies heavily on 1 character: Batman. By example, DC has grown his popularity into many successful books like: Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batman & Robin, Catwoman, Red Hood, Batwing, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, JLA, Batman: The Dark Knight, Penguin, & Batman: Earth One. All ONE characters spinoffs.

Marvel's success comes from multiple characters and their storylines, largely dependent on the likeability of: Avengers characters, X-Men characters, and Spider-Man characters. This well established universe of characters and stories provides a wealth of entertainment that month after month, more fans/readers show up for in mass. Marvel is a better company because more fans allow Marvel to be more successful than DC.

But if DC can't succeed after all this? Time to give props to the BEST comic book company in the biz. MARVEL, baby. Your Universe!

(This thread is for discussion on how the new DC sales initiative impacts the greatest comics debate, of which company truly is, the definitive BEST)"

So by your reasoning, the best comic book company with the best comic books is clearly...

ARCHIE COMICS! (The only company with the good sense to still put comic books out where new readers can find them easily -- Walmart, Target, grocery stores...)