Creative changes? Relaunch? What's next for the the Avengers?

[Lady_Alternate]

He made Beyonder into an Inhuman mutant thing. He made the Illuminati. He redid what it means to be Sorcerer Supreme. He ignored the fact that Carol Danvers was dead. He ignored the fact that Tony Stark was broke. He did Secret Invasion, which retconned Mockingbird's death, and her subsequent adventures in the after-life. Apparently Magneto raised Wanda and Pietro. He redid the entire character of Sentry and the Void. He introduced a whole new 1959 Avengers team, that we had never heard of until now. So no, much more then the Wanda thing, which even that is a pretty big deal.

While I defend your right to an opinion, to me you do seem to be mistaking story progression for retcons - it's a word bandied about far too much, and often incorrectly. To correct a couple of things, it was Jim McCann who lobbied editorial to bring back Mockingbird, so if you're apportioning "blame" for the return of my favourite character (who did not so much have "adventures" in the afterlife other than being used by Busiek as a plot device for other people's stories) then don't lay everything at Bendis' feet; that would be a mistake.

[timeismoney]

To me it looks like the people in K'un Lun have been waiting for the Phoenix to return, but it's returned multiple times. I just don't see why this time is so important. And what was going on in K'un Lun all those other times the Phoenix came back.

The point people is missing is the story is taking place in the past.

[Lascoden]

While I defend your right to an opinion, to me you do seem to be mistaking story progression for retcons - it's a word bandied about far too much, and often incorrectly. To correct a couple of things, it was Jim McCann who lobbied editorial to bring back Mockingbird, so if you're apportioning "blame" for the return of my favourite character (who did not so much have "adventures" in the afterlife other than being used by Busiek as a plot device for other people's stories) then don't lay everything at Bendis' feet; that would be a mistake.

I know the difference. And something can be both. A retcon is anything that changes the facts or interpretation of a previous story. So, while the revealing of Bobbi being alive is not necessarily a retcon, the revelation that it wasn't her that died is. It's changing already established plot points. And as said later, Bendis isn't the only one who's guilty. But I'm not talking about Busiek, or anybody else but Bendis. Besides, I wasn't just talking about retcons, I was talking about any changes to continuity and ignoring of plot elements he made.

[timeismoney]

You can say what you want about BMB but he made the Avengers into this big comic book like the X Men hell i would go as far to say if He had not Made the Avengers this big i doubt we would be seeing this big Avengers movie.

[Lascoden]

You can say what you want about BMB but he made the Avengers into this big comic book like the X Men hell i would go as far to say if He had not Made the Avengers this big i doubt we would be seeing this big Avengers movie.

But it wasn't just him. This was done by all of Marvel. They wanted the Avengers to be their flagship title. So, they structured the main events around them, they got big name characters to join, they got a massive editorial push, and ramped up advertising. Bendis should get some credit, but it was far from a one man show. This was a conscious move by Marvel to try and get them to the top.

[marvell2100]

But it wasn't just him. This was done by all of Marvel. They wanted the Avengers to be their flagship title. So, they structured the main events around them, they got big name characters to join, they got a massive editorial push, and ramped up advertising. Bendis should get some credit, but it was far from a one man show. This was a conscious move by Marvel to try and get them to the top.

Alot of this was done because Marvel didn't have the rights to the X-Men and Spidey movie but they did with the Avengers. The really pushed to make the Avengers the premiere Mavel team with the last 3-5 events Avengers focused. They created spin-off titles and put big name creative teams on them. They made some controversial moves with characterization but in the end, it all paid off with what we're now seeing in theaters. They couldn't do that with the X-Men and reap the benefits of a great movie.

[timeismoney]

But it wasn't just him. This was done by all of Marvel. They wanted the Avengers to be their flagship title. So, they structured the main events around them, they got big name characters to join, they got a massive editorial push, and ramped up advertising. Bendis should get some credit, but it was far from a one man show. This was a conscious move by Marvel to try and get them to the top.

That is true but how many Avengers books where there before BMB how many people cared about the Avengers before BMB the fact that this thread was made is because of BMB like it or not Avenger would not be what it is without BMB.

[LeonardEugenius]

The point people is missing is the story is taking place in the past.

No, that's the point. I understand the story is taking place in the past. The story is supposed to be the first time the Phoenix ever came to Earth. Now in the present Lei Kung is just learning about this, because the Phoenix is coming back. So what was everyone in K'un Lun doing all the other times the Phoenix came back? It doesn't make sense.

[marvell2100]

No, that's the point. I understand the story is taking place in the past. The story is supposed to be the first time the Phoenix ever came to Earth. Now in the present Lei Kung is just learning about this, because the Phoenix is coming back. So what was everyone in K'un Lun doing all the other times the Phoenix came back? It doesn't make sense.

Watching Married With Children. There was another redhead sighting.

[Countgate]

That is true but how many Avengers books where there before BMB how many people cared about the Avengers before BMB the fact that this thread was made is because of BMB like it or not Avenger would not be what it is without BMB.

Avengers, West Coast Avengers and Avengers Solo/Spotlight ran at the same time at the end of the 80's. Numerous Avengers books aren't a new thing.

[LeonardEugenius]

Watching Married With Children. There was another redhead sighting.

Maybe she's the original Phoenix

[marvell2100]

Maybe she's the original Phoenix

I dunno. She may be more powerful.

[Zak213]

I say just relaunch it with Joss whedon writing it.

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

No, that's the point. I understand the story is taking place in the past. The story is supposed to be the first time the Phoenix ever came to Earth. Now in the present Lei Kung is just learning about this, because the Phoenix is coming back. So what was everyone in K'un Lun doing all the other times the Phoenix came back? It doesn't make sense.

Isn't K'un L'un only "connected" to Earth every 88 years? (or is it 8 years?) In either case, it's a plausible stretch that they couldn't have responded when the Pheonix came to Earth because the gateway wasn't open. But then, you have to take into account the Randell passageway, but we'll ignore that for simplicity here.

[timeismoney]

Avengers, West Coast Avengers and Avengers Solo/Spotlight ran at the same time at the end of the 80's. Numerous Avengers books aren't a new thing.

But it never had the level of respect that it has now with Avengers being on the X Men level. Like it or not Avenger was not an easy sale until BMB as it is never out of the top 25.