BRITAIN PREVAILS - Captain Britain & MI13 Appreciation PART II

[Gallifrey]

I am bad at naming actors. So I will fail to join it I think.

Still, who says he needs to be a British actor?

Come on, so many America Heroes are British Actors, I don't think we can complain if the the opposite is true xD

In other circumstances I’d agree with you, but in this instance, with Captain Britain, yeah it should be a British actor. Can you imagine the outcry on this and other comics boards if a Briton had been cast as Captain America? The internet would’ve broken in half.

Hmmm, British actors to play CB? Howzabout Christian Bale, he’s even got the same initials? Oh no, hang on, Andrew Garfield! Uh no, otherwise engaged. Waitaminnit, what about Henry Cavill, eh?

…Bugger.


Seriously, about 15 – 20 years ago I’d have said this guy would be my first choice:




…and if you could clone him and artificially age said clone to the age of 30 he still would be. If you combine the steeliness and basic decency of his performances as Sharpe and Ned Stark with the RP accent he uses in Goldeneye and Flight Plan you’d have the perfect Brian Braddock IMO. No chance of this Mr. Bean being dismissed as an upper – class milksop. But he’s arguably too old now, particularly if Chris Evans is being used as the benchmark agewise. So may I suggest Bradley James?





He’s got some very relevant experience of playing a British folk hero with a manifest destiny as teen Arthur, and believe it or not he’s pushing 30, which puts him in the same age range as Evans. Plus, his profile Stateside may be due to rise if this year’s Fast Girls proves to be a modest success across the pond in the tradition of Billy Elliot and Bend it like Beckham. Snap him up now for a three – picture deal, Marvel, before he’s lost to insipid transatlantic rom – coms forever.

And Paul Whitehouse doing his best Terry – Thomas impersonation for Mad Jim.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Casting Captain Britain is damned difficult. For one he has to kind of be a man of the people, whom everybody sees something of theirselves in. Yeah, not tough to balance at all... :)

I see a lot of folks always suggesting dark haired and brooding guys to take on the role of Brian, but I just don't see that as working. Brian Braddock can be quite stern when he needs to be, yes. But he also has a playful arrogance to him at times which needs to be captured as well.

Or worse. The Arthur kid from the BBC's terrible Merlin series. Sorry, but I find no redeeming feature in that series and it's constant want to thow out Arthurian legend, and just make any old crap up with characters bearing the same names... (Rant over)

I was having a conversattion about this with Lee Grice over on Twitter, recently. His suggestion for Brian actually impressed me.

Now I know that some of you will probably not even consider the concept of casting a non-Briton in the role, but hear me out on this one...

Lee suggested Nikolaj Coster-Waldau.

Not sound familliar to you? Well, for one he *is* Danish. But he's better known right now for playing Jaime Lannister in HBO's Game of Thrones.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0182666/

He has the right physique for the role, is definitely capable of showing the more well-humoured side to Brian as well as the formal, controlled side.

Heck, he even looks lke he could have been drawn by Alan Davis!

Thats my two pence worth, anyway.

[coolbeans74]

always good to hear from you Sword,
i love that we can all have such similar ideas about how Captain Britain should be portrayed in comics, but such different ideas when i comes to casting.

although its just a bit of fun, i like to try and find people who could actually be cast in a movie today,

i like Sean Bean but even when he was younger i think he was too gruff and grizzled, he'd make a great Captain Midlands!
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is a great actor who is superb in game of thrones, but even though he has the look and build, he's not british and although i'd be fine with a danish Pete Wisdom, you just can't have a non british CB.
i've never seen Merlin so i can't really comment on Bradley James, but he has the look and he's the right age, so maybe.
other english actors like Charlie Hunnam are great but still not quite right, as Sword says he needs to look like a man of the people .

not to sound like the president of the Sam Claflin fan club but i think he has the right look (if he dyed his hair blonde),
he's young enough (without looking too young) to be around for a few movies,
and he's just starting to hit the big time, with high profile roles in two blockbuster movies, the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie and Snow White,
anyway that's my opinion, any other ideas out there?

[Gallifrey]

Or worse. The Arthur kid from the BBC's terrible Merlin series. Sorry, but I find no redeeming feature in that series and it's constant want to thow out Arthurian legend, and just make any old crap up with characters bearing the same names... (Rant over)

I was having a conversattion about this with Lee Grice over on Twitter, recently. His suggestion for Brian actually impressed me.

Now I know that some of you will probably not even consider the concept of casting a non-Briton in the role, but hear me out on this one...

Lee suggested Nikolaj Coster-Waldau.

Not sound familliar to you? Well, for one he *is* Danish. But he's better known right now for playing Jaime Lannister in HBO's Game of Thrones.

Sometimes it’s difficult to separate the actor from the material. I’m not the biggest fan of Merlin myself, but it’s a new interpretation of the legend for a new generation, in much the same way as the legend’s been reinterpreted many times before (including Marvel’s version). There’s no `right` version as such.

In fact, when I first saw Merlin, I remember thinking that the principal cast as a whole would be better employed doing a Captain Britain series than this ‘Smallville in Camelot’ nonsense. As well as Bradley as CB, Anthony Head could well play Sir James (My other choice for this would be Timothy Dalton, as you need someone who could do bespectacled, absent minded scientist but still look as if they were a bit useful in the past).

Richard Wilson could play cuddly, mentoring Merlin and possibly evil manipulative Merlyn as well with a change of prosthetics, Angel Coulby could be considered for the role of Meggan (no reason she couldn’t be played by a non – white actress given her background and abilities). And Colin Morgan could play, er…dunno, he’d probably make a good Feron, maybe??

I’m not entirely serious about this mass casting, but I think Bradley James has got potential. If it’s “playful arrogance” you want, he’s had four years practicing exactly that, plus his sense of comic timing is pretty good as well. And as I pointed out earlier, “that Arthur kid” is only a year or so younger than Chris Evans, so he’s just playing down to a supposedly teen character in what’s effectively a kid’s/teen’s take on Arthurian myth. In reality he’s still nearly a decade older than Brian’s alleged to be when he debuts as Captain Britain. But I’m guessing your obvious antipathy toward the Merlin series means I’m not going to win you round on this one.

As for Coster – Waldau, sorry, but I don’t see it, at least on the basis of GoT alone. Yes, he shows a sense of humour, but it’s of a very dark variety. And I just think the actor who plays the sister – bothering, (potentially) child – murdering Jamie Lannister would only reinforce some of the more negative memes about Brian if cast in the role. Plus,as you say, not British.

Whilst I’m sanguine about non – British actors playing Lara Croft, Sherlock Holmes, John Constantine and even the Doctor if he makes it to the movies, I really do think a British actor should play Captain Britain, otherwise it’s a) suggesting we can’t field our own player out of the entire U.K. for this part, and b) kind of missing the point with a character called Captain Britain. I doubt there was any serious consideration of casting a non – U.S. actor as Captain America, and the same should hold true for CB I feel.

But this is the problem when you start speculating on your ideal choice to play a character; everyone can (and will) have wildly varying ideas on who it should be. On the plus side, it kind of proves that CB’s fulfilling his role as a character – all things to all people…

[Loki]

I could see Joe Dempsie making a good Brian. Between Skins, The Fades and Game of Thrones, he's shown himself capable of playing very different characters, he's still young enough to play the part for more than one or two movies, and while he doesn't normally look like a muscleman (which works for when he is Brian), he can look that way when required (which works for when he is in costume).
http://www.malecelebnews.com/wp-cont...C3%9705-03.jpg
- with a six pack for Game of Thrones

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0zgK8BmULO...+The+Fades.png
with blond(ish) hair

[Legion_Quest]

If I was casting for Captain Britain, I'd likely go for Charlie Hunnam, currently one of the stars of Sons of Anarchy but British born and raised. Granted, he's most well known role outisde of Sons of Anarchy was playing the teen boy in the UK version of gay drama Queer as Folk (which some people would likely giggle about), but he's grown up, bulked out, is over 6 foot in height and is attractive enough when cleaned up to lead a movie

[OJSlaughter]

Charlie Hunnam is a good choice. He is very good in Sons of Anarchy anyway.

Outside of casting there are other considerations to think of. Like his accent, his costume etc...

Talking of accent, what one would they give him? Would they go with a very posh one or what?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

always good to hear from you Sword,
i love that we can all have such similar ideas about how Captain Britain should be portrayed in comics, but such different ideas when i comes to casting.

Hullo Coolbeans. Yes, it is both a strength and a flaw for the character when adapting to other media... :)

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is a great actor who is superb in game of thrones, but even though he has the look and build, he's not british and although i'd be fine with a danish Pete Wisdom, you just can't have a non british CB.

To me it would depend very much on how credible an English accent he could deliver. In this day and age, when even Spider-man is a Brit, I honestly think it comes down more to performance than Nationality. What works best on screen.

My only concern in Nikolaj would be based around how young they wanted the rest of the cast to be. Where that adaptation would pick up.

i've never seen Merlin so i can't really comment on Bradley James, but he has the look and he's the right age, so maybe.

My problem with Bradley James is that he's far too 'boy band' to convey more than one level of Brian, to me. I can't say I really rate him as an actor, based on Merlin, either. I'd actually say he's far too young, also.

Sometimes it’s difficult to separate the actor from the material. I’m not the biggest fan of Merlin myself, but it’s a new interpretation of the legend for a new generation, in much the same way as the legend’s been reinterpreted many times before (including Marvel’s version). There’s no `right` version as such.

While that is very much the way the creators have tried to spin their take on the source material, I'd very much argue against that justification.

Yes, granted, Marvel's take is not based terribly faithfully on the written sources of the legend, it doesn't need to be. The Arthurian elements of Otherworld, for example, are based more out of the mishmash of legends in the collective British consciousness.

So, in Marvel, yes Excalibur appears as a Sword in a Stone. Even though in Legend Excalibur was never acquired in such a manner.

But it has a very canon explanation of why things DO deviate from established legend.

BBC's Merlin, on the other hand, deviates completely from all known sources of the Arthurian legends. In terms of character's roles, ages, ethnicity, relationships with other characters, the sections of legends they are supposed to have been involved in, the stories themselves, the legends behind items and artifacts, the names of said legends and artifacts...

This list of flaws is truly Herculean.

And they pass off this new interpretation (Which at the end of the day has nothing more to connect it with Arthurian Legend than choosing to use the names of characters from that canon) to a new generation as fact by omission.

That, to me at least, is disgraceful.

The excuse that 'Well, there so many stories that we decided to reinterpret it ourselves. I mean it's a bit like Robin Hood, innit? Lots of stories, but you can make up what you want really?' is not a valid excuse to ignore a legend which HAS been documented in so many written sources going back so many centuries.

They could have done the research, and brought together these legends under one complete interpretation.

They chose to chuck such logic out the window, and make up any old cack riding on the success of a legend they'd completely bastardised for their ownm end.

And while the production levels are actually quite reasonable, the scripts and frequently the performances are incredibly poor.

And that is my opinion on that. :)

So much for avoiding ranting on forums, eh? That didn't last long.

[Legion_Quest]

Charlie Hunnam is a good choice. He is very good in Sons of Anarchy anyway.

Outside of casting there are other considerations to think of. Like his accent, his costume etc...

Talking of accent, what one would they give him? Would they go with a very posh one or what?

Personally I wouldn't go super posh, but I wouldn't go super common either. Just something neutral and in the middle. An English accent that isn't specifically from anywhere in England, but isn't RP

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Personally I wouldn't go super posh, but I wouldn't go super common either. Just something neutral and in the middle. An English accent that isn't specifically from anywhere in England, but isn't RP

I'd agree. Super Posh would just sound wrong. You can't be an everyman figure with that kind of accent.

The poshest I'd go is say Ruper Penry Jones as Adam Carter in Spooks. Well spoken, but not a Toff. :)

[Vic Vega]

Anybody pick up the latest issue of Journey Into Mystery?

Brian doesn't get to do much (aside from saying "Bally" again).

But we do get a pretty interesting take on Otherworld and the Manchester Gods.

[Basterdshark]

Two amazing Gillen penned books arrive in one week! These issues of JiM and Uncanny X-Men are officially my favourite. I don't think British national character and consciousness has ever been explored quite so well than these wonderful tales! The Uncanny issue was definitely the better of the two for the lovely framing device (and words contained within) and Dustin Weaver's art but Manchester Gods does for Otherworld what was, in my eyes, a necessity: bring modernity to our lands subconscious! True, Brian isn't the focus of this book but Gillen continues to fix and reinvent the Marvel UK mythos! Please read for your own enjoyment!

[Legion_Quest]

Anybody pick up the latest issue of Journey Into Mystery?

Brian doesn't get to do much (aside from saying "Bally" again).

But we do get a pretty interesting take on Otherworld and the Manchester Gods.

I have a feeling that the Manchester God's aren't being all that honest with Kid Loki, but certainly it was a brilliantly penned issue and could be about to change the face of Otherworld and hopefully give renewed interest to Captain Britain, hopefully enough to get a new MI13 series, or at least a mini

[Panic]

I remember suggesting Charlie Hunnam in Part 1 of this thread - he's very good in SoA. As for a non-Brit, Philip Winchester is an American actor with a British mother, and his English accent is so natural and convincing that I had no idea he wasn't English - and I'd seen him in both Camelot and Strike Back. Being able to do the accent and make it sound natural is key, imo.

[Gallifrey]

To me it would depend very much on how credible an English accent he could deliver. In this day and age, when even Spider-man is a Brit, I honestly think it comes down more to performance than Nationality. What works best on screen.

My only concern in Nikolaj would be based around how young they wanted the rest of the cast to be. Where that adaptation would pick up.

My problem with Bradley James is that he's far too 'boy band' to convey more than one level of Brian, to me. I can't say I really rate him as an actor, based on Merlin, either. I'd actually say he's far too young, also.

Spider – man is a Brit, yes. Captain America isn’t. There’s a significant difference, I think. When a defining aspect of a character is that he’s representative of a nation, I personally feel it would be a bit of a cop – out to have that character played by someone who isn’t from that nation. Kind of suggests that, somehow, we think we’re so crap and inadequate we don’t really have the conviction to produce our own national hero.

Leaving aside your comments on Merlin deviating from “established legend” (which I don’t particularly agree with, as there’ve been at least three notably divergent interpretations of Arthurian mythology on film and TV in the last 8 years alone), my previous posts were never meant as a ringing endorsement of the show itself, but rather some of the performances it’s produced. Whilst I agree with some of your comments about the premise, I think one of the better things to come out of it has been the rapport between Arthur and Merlin. So with regard to your comments about James’ performance itself, I’d disagree for three reasons:-

a) I think he has shown range in the role, from a good sense of comic timing to his despair at Morgana’s betrayal, the (temporary) loss of Camelot and, most significantly, Uther’s death, to doing the “hero scenes” with conviction,

b) Criticisms of a ‘one note’ performance could just as easily be levelled at Coster – Waldau, judged on his performance as Jamie Lannister alone. Too saturnine, too cynical, too dark to play an essentially sunshine hero like Captain Britain,

c) Criticisms of being too ‘boy band’ could be, and occasionally were, applied to Chris Evan, even after his performances in the FF films…right up until the point he turned in a pitch – perfect performance as Steve Rogers.

Plus, if you rearrange his name, you get ‘James Bradley’, which is only one syllabub away from ‘James Braddock’. Spooky, eh? It’s density, I tells ya, density!

You seem to be arguing for an older CB, which I personally wouldn’t want to see played against Evans’ Cap. Let’s face it, Brian is always going to be shown as less experienced and effective as Steve no matter what media he’s portrayed in. I don’t mind ‘rookie CB’ if he actually is a rookie and just starting out; if he’s shown as being older than Cap and still relatively inexperienced, well then you’ve got a similar situation to what we’ve had in Secret Avengers in the last few months. So I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Sword.

Joe Dempsie’s an interesting choice; he’s a pretty mercurial actor so it’d be interesting to see what he’d do with the part. A very classless, post – MI:13 CB from him perhaps. Sam Claflin I don’t know. May try to watch POTC 4 this weekend.

Anybody pick up the latest issue of Journey Into Mystery?

Brian doesn't get to do much (aside from saying "Bally" again).

But we do get a pretty interesting take on Otherworld and the Manchester Gods.

I haven’t read it yet, but I’d hope that if Gillen has him using the ‘B’ word again there’s some rationale and justification for it. I would hope…