BRITAIN PREVAILS - Captain Britain & MI13 Appreciation PART II

[OJSlaughter]

Course there are other ways, but why restrict yourself, especially when UXF's modus operandi seems to be 'doing the unthinkable'. The fact that so many people got their feathers ruffled is testimony to the power of such a taboo (apparently) being broken -- and the ramifications have spread along Remender's run, so its hardly an anomalous moment free of consequence. The book questions the status of the 'superhero' in a bleak world where expediency trumps morality and I personally don't think that's an unworthy goal -- not that its end game for all superhero comics, but its certainly what UXF aspires to. Plus, I don't agree that Betsy is ill-suited for the task, given she's shown enough gumption to quit the team (for now at least) and was pretty appalled when Fantomex played his parlour tricks. Really, I question the impulse of putting faith in Wolverine's own private Mossad squad in the first place. It's there to be provocative and test you.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think that it exists is great. For me though, it is a step too far and one that I cannot abide by. It is more than taboo, it is just goes beyond what I am willing to allow a protagonist to do. It has made me think: 'A hero needs to take Fantomex down and also the rest of them, for being part of that.'

It has almost caused, in my mind, the protagonist to become an antagonist. Which destroys the fabric of what makes the book work,

That is just me though. Maybe I am being too emotional.

[Panic]

CBR Secret Avengers review
He doesn't think much of Remender's CB either. We are not alone!

[Willow616]

CBR Secret Avengers review
He doesn't think much of Remender's CB either. We are not alone!

I saw that Panic mate....pretty much my sentiment. Like everything else RR is doing but just don't understand his CB that's seemingly at odds with every other Braddock appearance over the last two decades.

I know we on BP can be somnetimes judged as a 'vocal minority' (or 'lunatic fringe') it does appear that we aren't the only ones who don't understand this characterisation.

My hope springs eternal though that after the direct pep talk from Thor we're due to see Captain Britain pull something out of the bag real soon.....hopefully.

[Hindsight lad]

Good grief, where is everybody? Is it a bank holiday over there? I get a week off and the ability to post, and nobody's on the board.

Quick question: when it comes to Merlin, do you folks prefer the extradimensional, distantly related to Dr. Who Merlin as Cap's mentor, or the bearded mystic (and alleged son of Satan) who was mentor to Arthur? Are they even the same character, or have they been established as separate beings who simply share a name?

Hindsight lad

[Willow616]

Good grief, where is everybody? Is it a bank holiday over there? I get a week off and the ability to post, and nobody's on the board.

Hahaha not yet mate, but the double Bank Holiday for Her Magesty's Diamond Jubilee is next week and the weather here has taken a turn for the better coast to coast so I imagine there's quite a few off work enjoying the sunshine. What with the Jube, the Olympics and the European Championship up and coming you can't move for Union Flags here!

Such a pity that our national hero is getting a drubbing at a time when the world's focus is on the UK more than ever....

Quick question: when it comes to Merlin, do you folks prefer the extradimensional, distantly related to Dr. Who Merlin as Cap's mentor, or the bearded mystic (and alleged son of Satan) who was mentor to Arthur? Are they even the same character, or have they been established as separate beings who simply share a name?

Hindsight lad

I was always under the impression that Merlin/Merlyn that appeared in the Doctor Who and CB strips and the Black Knight stories were one and the same but it was just another of his manipulations.

He was at one point though replaced I believe (briefly) and this was the Merlin that trained Mordred the Mystic....Loki will be able to clarify that better than I can. So there is a loop hole to explain away anything that happened in the days of Camelot that a creator didn't like....

[highwayguy]

Yeah, the sun is having an anti-online effect here too. Even Scotland is basking in the heat. But, unfortunately, not many Union Jacks are on display. The Jubilee and the Olympics are causing some excitement. But nothing visably spectacular. (My mum went to York last week and witnessed the Southern patriotism first hand. She was disappointed there was nothing like that up here.) As for the Euros, I'm sure the population will be sticking by the old "ABE" slogan. "Anyone But England". Go figure.

And our personal national heroes (because, happily, Cap represents us Jocks too ), Caledonia and Kylun, are stranded in limbo. What's Wolfsbane up to nowadays?

I always thought Merlin was just one character. But, while doing a little research, I got a headache trying understand what he is. I guess it would be easier to read the comic rather than retain snippets of information. Loki, we need your help!

Is there much information on Bloodrush, the title character from unpublished Marvel UK title? Just how many titles WERE announced then unpublished by Marvel UK? The more I re-read my comics, the more advertised series I see.

[Willow616]

Yeah, the sun is having an anti-online effect here too. Even Scotland is basking in the heat. But, unfortunately, not many Union Jacks are on display. The Jubilee and the Olympics are causing some excitement. But nothing visably spectacular. (My mum went to York last week and witnessed the Southern patriotism first hand. She was disappointed there was nothing like that up here.) As for the Euros, I'm sure the population will be sticking by the old "ABE" slogan. "Anyone But England". Go figure.

That's my town mate! It was glorious here last weekend....the old ABE is always odd to me as I'd be right behind a Scots team but I suppose rivalries run deep for some unfortunately.

[Joe Acro]

What's Wolfsbane up to nowadays?

Palling around with X-Factor, mainly. Or manely, as the case may be.

[highwayguy]

That's my town mate! It was glorious here last weekend....the old ABE is always odd to me as I'd be right behind a Scots team but I suppose rivalries run deep for some unfortunately.

The George Hotel has her approval.

The vast majority of Scots prefer to watch English football. But I think it's the media that ruins it for us. That's what I always hear, anyway.

Palling around with X-Factor, mainly. Or manely, as the case may be.

At least one Scot is keeping herself busy. If only she was there to motivate the Scotland football team in the US last week.

[Loki]

I was always under the impression that Merlin/Merlyn that appeared in the Doctor Who and CB strips and the Black Knight stories were one and the same but it was just another of his manipulations.

Correct. One and the same. But also completely different people. See below.

He was at one point though replaced I believe (briefly) and this was the Merlin that trained Mordred the Mystic....Loki will be able to clarify that better than I can. So there is a loop hole to explain away anything that happened in the days of Camelot that a creator didn't like....

Also correct. The true Merlin was absent from Camelot for a while and was replaced by an imposter, the man later known as the Maha Yogi, Merlin Demonspawn and the Mad Merlin. That's the Merlin who Mordred the Mystic came into conflict with. He wasn't actually a sorcerer at the time, though he seems to have learned real magic since then. He was a tribesman of Ulysses Bloodstone, who was mutated by the Caretakers of Arcturus (a bunch of Fortisquians who meddled in human evolution) to give him psychic powers, and then got immortality from another piece of the bloodstone that was Ulysses Bloodstone's namesake.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/merlinds.htm

As for the real Merlin / Merlyn. He's a gestalt entity. At some point all the "genuine" alternate reality counterparts of Merlin (as opposed to imposters like the Mad Merlin or the Doctor) got merged into a single being. Ditto for Roma. He can shift between forms, they can act in conflict with one another or seize control of the whole in some circumstances (hence the comments made by the Merlin in Captain Britain and MI13 about a "mad aspect" of himself being behind the events in X-Men: Die By the Sword) and they may well be able to split off and act independently (while still retaining a link to the whole).

[Hindsight lad]

Ah, thanks Loki. I knew there was a Merlin in Camelot, and Alan Davis' Merlin from Otherworld, but I wasn't sure if they were the same being.

I just purchased the Merlin issue of Marvel Preview by Doug Moench and John Buscema. Was this a story in Marvel continuity, or is it outside the 616 universe?

I knew about the Mad Merlin, but was unaware he'd been messed with by the Caretakers. Man, between Beyonders, Fortisquians, Kree, Celestials, etc. ancient Earth was just one big petri dish for alien experimentation. At least, per Hickman's universal Inhumans, we weren't the only ones.

Hindsight lad

[Loki]

I just purchased the Merlin issue of Marvel Preview by Doug Moench and John Buscema. Was this a story in Marvel continuity, or is it outside the 616 universe?

It is in 616.

[Panic]

As for the real Merlin / Merlyn. He's a gestalt entity. At some point all the "genuine" alternate reality counterparts of Merlin [...] got merged into a single being. Ditto for Roma. He can shift between forms, they can act in conflict with one another or seize control of the whole in some circumstances (hence the comments made by the Merlin in Captain Britain and MI13 about a "mad aspect" of himself being behind the events in X-Men: Die By the Sword) and they may well be able to split off and act independently (while still retaining a link to the whole).

Maybe that's what's been happening to Brian... all his alternates are being compressed into his body, and consequently his personality is all over the shop. It would explain much bad writing. At this point I'll grasp at any straw, no matter how flimsy.

[Guest_1001]

Speaking of that, I know we've discussed the possibility that Remender is breaking Brian down only to build him back up and have him save the day in some heroic manner but, after everything that's happened, does anybody else feel like that's not enough? I know that's a pessimistic attitude to take but the problem is, it's not just the fact that he's being portrayed as a bad hero right now. It's the arrogance he displayed when he first entered and tried to proclaim himself leader, it's the "I don't play well with others" stuff and the comments about how he makes an idiot of himself after he's been drinking. One big heroic moment won't make that bad writing go away. It's like Remender's reduced him to a Hank Pym level; giving him an awful reputation long after he's redeemed himself. And much like with Chuck Austen and Pym, this is all due to the way the writer views the character rather than the readers, so it's like Cap has multiple personality disorder. One moment, he's a wise, calm and sensible leader, the next he's an arrogant rookie.

When The Sword Is Drawn makes his return to the thread, I'd love to find out who he prefers; Frank Tieri or Rick Remender.

[OJSlaughter]

Maybe that's what's been happening to Brian... all his alternates are being compressed into his body, and consequently his personality is all over the shop. It would explain much bad writing. At this point I'll grasp at any straw, no matter how flimsy.

My whole theory of his current appearances being fabrications is what I stick to. We will probably keep grabbing onto these silly straws until another writers takes the helm and retcons everything. Until then, we are all due to suffer under Captain Britain.

Speaking of that, I know we've discussed the possibility that Remender is breaking Brian down only to build him back up and have him save the day in some heroic manner but, after everything that's happened, does anybody else feel like that's not enough? I know that's a pessimistic attitude to take but the problem is, it's not just the fact that he's being portrayed as a bad hero right now. It's the arrogance he displayed when he first entered and tried to proclaim himself leader, it's the "I don't play well with others" stuff and the comments about how he makes an idiot of himself after he's been drinking. One big heroic moment won't make that bad writing go away. It's like Remender's reduced him to a Hank Pym level; giving him an awful reputation long after he's redeemed himself. And much like with Chuck Austen and Pym, this is all due to the way the writer views the character rather than the readers, so it's like Cap has multiple personality disorder. One moment, he's a wise, calm and sensible leader, the next he's an arrogant rookie.

There is a massive conflict between the writers who handle the characters I guess. Almost like two or three different ways of writing the character have been allowed to exist and each writer clings onto a different one. We need a writer to create a definitive version of Brian which other writers cannot fuck up. This is what MI:13 should have been: if the series was more ppopular and lasted longer then I am sure this would have been the case.