BRITAIN PREVAILS - Captain Britain & MI13 Appreciation PART II

[Panic]

I think it's probably worth stating that if anyone has positive things to say about Remender's take on the character, they shouldn't feel put-off by the prevalent feeling of hostility towards Rick's CB. I know I'm relentlessly negative about they way Brian has been portrayed recently, and many of the other posters here feel similarly, but it is difficult to be objective about a character you've felt proprietorial about since childhood, especially one that is supposed to represent you/your country. I imagine readers from outside the U.K. aren't quite so emotional about the subject, and shouldn't be discouraged by our anger, bitterness and negativity. This is an appreciation thread though, so no trolls please.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The thing is, there are some thngs I've genuinely quite liked about what Rick Remender has been doing. The actual aesthetic details of Otherworld, the epic landscape, the starlight citadel, the courtrooms, in Uncanny X-force were incredibly well done. I enjoyed seeing those.

I'm also really interested to see Sir James Braddock, as 'Brother', 's role in Secret Avengers. He's effectively responsible for letting a race of unknowing synthesoids out into the world. That's got potential.

It's purely Brian's portrayal which doesn't sit well with me. That face of permanently petulant child about to throw a tantrum he seems to sport in Uncanny X-Force. Or his constantly being shown to be inferior or naive in Secret Avengers.

It's not the Brian who's been around since say 1994/95. He's a very different guy.

[Gallifrey]

It's not the Brian who's been around since say 1994/95. He's a very different guy.

And that's a big part of the problem I have with the current handling of the character; Remender's approach has made it that much harder for us to defend Brian against the usual accusations from the usual suspects. He's played into the haters' hands, basically, and I can't believe that he wasn't even peripherally aware of the negative perceptions of CB that already existed, and that this take would only serve to reinforce those prejudices.

I won't, in future, go into other threads to defend CB against not only the usual memes but also the bigoted and frankly idiotic comments on British national character, imperialism and racial supremacy that he's often used as a Trojan horse for. Partly because I don't want to engage with the ugly mentality of posters who propagate that sort of nastiness, but also partly because I can't refute Brian acting as an arrogant, unlikeable totalitarian because it's there in Remender's portrayal, current and ongoing, irrespective of how inconsistent and unrepresentative that characterisation is. We don’t have the “first 15 issues/early years of Excalibur” defence any more.

And it's not just some of us in this thread. Go into the Avengers threads and you'll find members who rarely, if ever, post in here, who aren't as 'invested' in CB as us, who are commenting on how this portrayal is bafflingly inconsistent, how CB as a character is better than Remender makes him out to be, and how this isn't the only example of Remender rendering an established character in an unlikeable and inconsistent fashion.

I found this blog as part of my trawls around t'interweb; Colin Smith's a contributor to Q magazine and therefore can't be ghettoised in the 'some Captain Britain fans' category, as Remender's attempted to dismiss those who've been less than enamoured with his take on CB. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything in the article it's a thoughtful, detailed analysis of Moore's take on the character which demonstrates just how much CB's role and purpose has been misunderstood since his induction into the mainstream MU, and why, by nature and definition, Captain Britain as an everyman hero is going to be markedly different from Captain America without being any less of an identifiable and sympathetic character. Worth reading the comments section as well, particularly re the current portrayal of CB in SA and UXF.



http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blo...n-britain.html

[Panic]

Gallifrey, that blog sums up why I like the character so much, and why I'm saddened at how he's used today. Thanks for posting the link.

[Loki]

Ditto. Very astute description of the Corps - they are there showing what Brian is by showing what he isn't. Captain Empire exists to show Brian doesn't represent an imperialistic British viewpoint.

[Gallifrey]

Gallifrey, that blog sums up why I like the character so much, and why I'm saddened at how he's used today. Thanks for posting the link.

No prob. It's rare to find a blog other than Sword's excellent It Came From Darkmoor that deals with CB in such an in - depth, considered and affectionate fashion. Puts things in perspective a bit as to the fact that We Are Not Alone regarding current developments as well.

Ditto. Very astute description of the Corps - they are there showing what Brian is by showing what he isn't. Captain Empire exists to show Brian doesn't represent an imperialistic British viewpoint.

Bob on. Another facet of the character and his context that seemed to get lost in translation upon his arrival in the larger MU.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Good spot Gallifrey. Mr Smith talks a lot of sense there. It's always very reassuring to hear people not so easily grouped and dismissed as being in the 'fanboy' bracket talking about Captain Britain in such a considered way.

[Panic]

I thought I'd reprint a selection of Colin Smith's quotes that best sum up Captain Britain to me:

a straight-man in a universe full of absurdities

Alan Moore's Captain Britain is a frequently confused, regularly out-classed super-everyman whose powers are in themselves somewhat unremarkable.

He's one of us, he does his best, he's our representative as a well-meaning and yet clearly under-powered and mostly baffled knight errant faced with the overwhelming crises of a hyper-remarkable universe

To that I'd add my own view: he's Lewis Carroll's Alice, a sane protagonist in a crazy universe attempting to apply sanity and logic to a situation where neither apply. Poor doomed thing indeed.

[Willow616]

I think it's probably worth stating that if anyone has positive things to say about Remender's take on the character, they shouldn't feel put-off by the prevalent feeling of hostility towards Rick's CB. I know I'm relentlessly negative about they way Brian has been portrayed recently, and many of the other posters here feel similarly, but it is difficult to be objective about a character you've felt proprietorial about since childhood, especially one that is supposed to represent you/your country. I imagine readers from outside the U.K. aren't quite so emotional about the subject, and shouldn't be discouraged by our anger, bitterness and negativity. This is an appreciation thread though, so no trolls please.

Yep I very much agree with this sentiment. There maybe new fans out there who've never read any contempory CB before and this is their first exposure to such. As bizarre as it may appear to some of us this Brian maybe more their cup of tea....he maybe seen as more of an interesting character to those who haven't read his adventures before.

There are huge chucks of Remender's work I am very happy with, indeed when we first heard of his taking over SA and his inclusion of Brian I was the first to offer my support....in such I do feel I have been let down. I have resigned myself to the fact that at least someone is using Braddock, it's not quite the version I wanted but there he is......he's on the Secret team and he's appeared (ever so briefly) in New and next week he's in the main team book. That wouldn't have happened last year........

The thing is now that these things have been published they are now canon, as has been pointed out all our defence of Brian that we had has now gone. He's effectively been reset to how a great deal of US fans discovered him...he recovered from that but the reputation of the character was severely damaged.....again something we have to accept will probably be happening again right now to some. CB's still my personal favourite (and probably always will be) beacsue I'd always rather read something with him in than not and the version I hold dear is the childhood one I have. This was the same one that Paul Cornell apparently had so the possibility is that someone else might have it as well, as long as CB is kept out of limbo we can only hope that one of these creators steps forward.

Maybe we'll get Jonathan Hickman on Avengers and he'll include Mr Braddock in the line-up????

I'm also really interested to see Sir James Braddock, as 'Brother', 's role in Secret Avengers. He's effectively responsible for letting a race of unknowing synthesoids out into the world. That's got potential.

Yes, I really like that. We know nothing about Sir James he is a truly blank slate waiting for someone to flesh out. We don't really know whether he was a 'hero' or a 'villain' by 616 standards.....and his wife we know even less about. I've also enjoyed Betsy in UXF, I've been turned off her since the early nineties and Remender has actually made her more than a 90's ninja clone. I'd much prefer her returned to her original self but that's not gonna happen. No you can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter.

I've also liked the inclusion on another Brit - Fantomex, and during Franken Castle (which lets face it was reviled by some Punisher fans......) we got the lovely Elsa turn up.

He's played into the haters' hands, basically, and I can't believe that he wasn't even peripherally aware of the negative perceptions of CB that already existed, and that this take would only serve to reinforce those prejudices.

And it's not just some of us in this thread. Go into the Avengers threads and you'll find members who rarely, if ever, post in here, who aren't as 'invested' in CB as us, who are commenting on how this portrayal is bafflingly inconsistent, how CB as a character is better than Remender makes him out to be, and how this isn't the only example of Remender rendering an established character in an unlikeable and inconsistent fashion.

I found this blog as part of my trawls around t'interweb; Colin Smith's a contributor to Q magazine and therefore can't be ghettoised in the 'some Captain Britain fans' category, as Remender's attempted to dismiss those who've been less than enamoured with his take on CB. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything in the article it's a thoughtful, detailed analysis of Moore's take on the character which demonstrates just how much CB's role and purpose has been misunderstood since his induction into the mainstream MU, and why, by nature and definition, Captain Britain as an everyman hero is going to be markedly different from Captain America without being any less of an identifiable and sympathetic character. Worth reading the comments section as well, particularly re the current portrayal of CB in SA and UXF.



http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blo...n-britain.html

Aye Gallifrey, I can't believe that anyone who claims to be a CB fan and is eager to use the guy isn't aware of the potential damage a bad portrayal could inflict. Paul Cornell was quite vocal in his interviews that Brian wasn't the bumbling, drunken idiot that he ha'd been labelled as before. PC stated that Brian wasn't and alcoholic and that he wanted to represent like Steve Rogers did. Given the critical (if not commercial) success of CB&MI13 you would think that it's characterisations would have been taken into account. I have noticed on the Avengers threads that there are people outside of our little sphere that have taken umbridge with this seemingly incompatible Brian. I belive being told that it's part of an arc is understandable but also a little condesending...yes....we get that's whats happening, thats great if you want to dedicate time to our hero and you don't want him to be perfect, but there are better ways of doing that than just insulting the history and fans of such.

But as you say it's been likewise for fans of Hawkeye too, lets just hope this settles down and CB gets one of those huge save the world moments (without dying...). Even the Beast (one of Marvel's consistently genial) has been a misery in SA.....and lets not also forget that his appearance seems to have regressed to pre-Morrison days without no hint of a sub-plot.

Anyhoo thanks for that link it's very insightful. I have respectfully tweeted this to Mr Rememnder and asked his thoughts....

However SA is now canon as I mentioned before.....so how do we reconcile the Brian in that to the Brian of MI13. Well for me he's acting as he was after he believed Betsy was dead.......for wahtever reason that Jamie was resurrected (and forgiven???!!! Read the next 75 issues of Excalibur please Mr Remender.....he's a slave trader AND a murderer) they were seemingly back to being brothers, Brian has now effectively been betrayed by his sister and has effectively killed his brother...maybe he has reverted to that grief he displayed at the beginning of Excalibur. maybe with the weight of the Omniverse on his shoulders and all thats happened is why we have this personality shift? Well that's my explanation....

On another note - look there's Union Jack in next weeks Spider-Man! And he seems to be ok and not an idiot....and mentions ''Chips''!! Yay! Old UJ never seems to suffer the slagging that CB gets. And there's Big Hero Six. And Alpha Flight is making an appearance in Hulk....maybe the old international Marvel I knew isn't dead after all?

That said I just read X-Men Curse of the Mutants from my local library and saw how all the good work of Vampire nation has been undone and my heart weeps.

Here's to Faiza in her new series by Brian Micheal Bendis - Faiza: The Retcon Years.

[highwayguy]

Here's our boy in the preview of Avengers #26. I doubt Brian will get any dialogue though as he's not one of Bendis' darlings. But still, it's nice to see him out and about.

[Joe Acro]

Here's our boy in the preview of Avengers #26. I doubt Brian will get any dialogue though as he's not one of Bendis' darlings. But still, it's nice to see him out and about.

Wow, that coloring mutes Simonson's art something awful, doesn't it?

[Panic]

Yeah, tonal colouring works for some artists, but Simonson's bold, lively lines call for flat shading. It's the reason I passed up buying the Simonson Omnibus - the simple, muted colours in the original comics work much, much better.

And LOL at CB appearing in just two panels, yet still getting his costume coloured in wrong in one of them. (Why is this forum so crap when it comes to smileys? No laughing smiley? Come on!)

[whozeduke]

Slightly off-topic, but is anyone reading Paul Cornell's Demon Knights at DC? This week's issue started the "Murder of Merlin" story. I think this thread would enjoy the book. Right now the team is off to Avalon to bring back Merlin.

[Gallifrey]

Maybe we'll get Jonathan Hickman on Avengers and he'll include Mr Braddock in the line-up????

Hickman actually seems fairly interested in the Braddocks over in Ultimates; Jamie's effectively the last surviving member of the EDI, and, free of the taint of the 616 version, he's coming across as more louche than out - and -out bad... closer to Tony Stark than Ulyssess Klaw in depiction. I'd quite like to see what Hickman would do with 616 CB.

However SA is now canon as I mentioned before.....so how do we reconcile the Brian in that to the Brian of MI13. .

I'm still going with the " 'Brian' is actually Albion and has usurped CB" theory. They'll find the real Brian a couple of years down the line, trussed up Madeye Moody - style, possibly in one of these 'jigsaw jails' Remender keeps banging on about.

I'm only half joking about this now. To be honest, if a future writer did decide to go down this route to explain the current portrayal, I wouldn't just accept it, I'd welcome it with open arms and buy it a pint. And it wouldn't really be any more credibility - stretching than Secret Invasion.

To that I'd add my own view: he's Lewis Carroll's Alice, a sane protagonist in a crazy universe attempting to apply sanity and logic to a situation where neither apply. Poor doomed thing indeed.

YES! I always thought of the Jaspers Warp storyline as a kind of dark take on Alice in Wonderland, complete with Mad (Hatter) Jim Jaspers in his flying teapot. A rich slice of British Surrealism with a hefty dollop of Orwellian dystopia on top.

Slightly off-topic, but is anyone reading Paul Cornell's Demon Knights at DC? This week's issue started the "Murder of Merlin" story. I think this thread would enjoy the book. Right now the team is off to Avalon to bring back Merlin.

I will have to check this out. Interesting...I wonder if PC is trying to position Merlin as a significant character in the DCU as he is in the MU. D'you think Marvel will try to sue?

[Brandon McKinnis]

I will have to check this out. Interesting...I wonder if PC is trying to position Merlin as a significant character in the DCU as he is in the MU. D'you think Marvel will try to sue?

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not but I'll answer this like you aren't. I don't think Marvel can sue. As far as I know Merlin is public domain, so as long as you don't lift specific story beats directly from another iteration of the character anything is fair game.