BRITAIN PREVAILS - Captain Britain & MI13 Appreciation PART II

[Muldwych]

Im new to marvel comics and still getting my head around it all but i always thought he was meant to be Britians version of Captain America

[highwayguy]

Im new to marvel comics and still getting my head around it all but i always thought he was meant to be Britians version of Captain America

Our Cap is a LOT more than that. Sure, he's often portrayed as a patriotic boy-scout. But just read Captain Britain/Excalibur/MI13 to see the difference. It's a worthwhile journey.

[Muldwych]

Im going to be reading the Excalibur series

[Panic]

Two things....

1) Secret Avengers #24 Preview

The preview looks good to me. Nice art, CB coloured consistently, a good fight scene... what's not to like?

2) If Paul Cornell always thought of Captain Britain as Marvel's equivalent to DC's Captain Marvel ("a hero formed through magic."), and changed his power-set accordingly. Now Rick Remender sees Captain Britain as a magically powered Iron Man, and has altered his power-set again. Where does everyone see the Captain Britain character going in the future?

Marvel's Doctor Who: no real powers other than scientific knowledge and perhaps a touch of telepathy, traveling from dimension to dimension exploring and righting wrongs. Not saying that's what I want to happen to him, but I could definitely see a writer pushing him in that direction.

Im new to marvel comics and still getting my head around it all but i always thought he was meant to be Britians version of Captain America

Our Cap is a LOT more than that.

And sometimes a LOT less.

[baltiroo]

Im going to be reading the Excalibur series

Good that you are starting with that. I am not sure if they've collected the original series of Captain Britain, but that would also be very worthwhile. The first volume of Excalibur is pretty great, although there is some strangeness in #70-#90. Good luck.

[Gallifrey]

Im new to marvel comics and still getting my head around it all but i always thought he was meant to be Britians version of Captain America

I think Union Jack probably fulfills that function more obviously in the MU these days - same abilities (peak physical human), same wartime origins (WWI in UJ's case), and a common pool of adversaries and allies. I've always thought of Captain Britain as being more on a par with Thor, Mar - Vell and Adam Warlock because of the character's cosmic/mythic scope.

Two things....

1) Secret Avengers #24 Preview

2) If Paul Cornell always thought of Captain Britain as Marvel's equivalent to DC's Captain Marvel ("a hero formed through magic."), and changed his power-set accordingly. Now Rick Remender sees Captain Britain as a magically powered Iron Man, and has altered his power-set again. Where does everyone see the Captain Britain character going in the future?

One good thing about Remender's take on CB as far as I'm concerned is that, if his powerset can be altered on Merlin's whim, then another writer can come along later and change Remender's direction without it being inconsistent or contradictory. On the other hand, it makes it even harder to sell the character to an unfamiliar audience if his appearance and his powers change every time he's pulled out of limbo.

Alan Davis had all sorts of ideas about how the uniform worked that weren't made explicit in the comics (the 'animatronic' design of the helmet which explains why it's able to mimic and convey Brian's facial expression, for instance), and when he's captured by the Vixen in "Flotsam and Jetsam" her tech guy describes the uniform specifically as 'a machine', so maybe these sensors are just another function of the suit he's only recently become aware of. Most of Brian's career as Captain Britain has consisted of him being kept in the dark or outright lied to as regards his origin/powers/mission/potential. So him showing some tech abilities similar to Iron Man and Guardian/Vindicator isn't necessarily inconsistent.

On the other hand, as Sword mentioned upthread, he doesn't/shouldn't need the costume any more to access his basic powerset of flight and strength, so if Remender is (re)introducing this limitation I shall be somewhat ticked off (which is to say more ticked off than I've already indicated on this thread). In his defence, Remender hasn't done anything to contradict what Paul Cornell established about CB's powers yet, and has even made mention of the 'confidence factor'.

It seems to me that when handling the character since his 80s revamp, British and American writers are often pulling in opposite directions; American writers are keen to establish Brian as nobility and amp up the 'hey nonny nonny, fol de rol' aspect of the character (what Brian himself dismisses as "olde worlde hokum" at one point), whilst Moore Delano and Davis try to portray him as an everyman ("There's no title, it's just plain Mister I'm afraid") and emphasise the science/technological aspects ("amplifier costumes" as opposed to "magically powered armour"). Cornell moved away from this by emphasising the magical aspects of the character, but even this didn't necessarily contradict what had gone before.

"Dipped in magic,clothed in science" is a pretty damn good summation of Captain Britain and indicates the potential he has. When used to his best effect, he should have a foot planted squarely in both camps. That's what I'd like to see explored further, anyway.

[Vic Vega]

From what I've read so far Captain Britain is in an interesting position.

What may seem to a an American writer as exotic (Brian's nobility) probably comes off as tiresome (or worse) to a Brit.

Brian has all the trappings of nobility, title, manor and servants I guess (I don't know if C.B. has his own personal Alfred or not) but Cornell's Captain Britain didn't put much stock in that stuff.

But I guess it has to be brought up in some manner, if only to show the difference between him and Union Jack.

Who, I guess is the working class version of Brian.

Thing is, he can't be Basil Fawlty and still be likable (unless you are meant to laugh at him as you did Fawlty),
so the pip pip cheerio stuff has to be toned down no matter what.

[Panic]

From what I've read so far Captain Britain is in an interesting position.

What may seem to a an American writer as exotic (Brian's nobility) probably comes off as tiresome (or worse) to a Brit.

Brian has all the trappings of nobility, title, manor and servants I guess (I don't know if C.B. has his own personal Alfred or not) but Cornell's Captain Britain didn't put much stock in that stuff.

But I guess it has to be brought up in some manner, if only to show the difference between him and Union Jack.

Who, I guess is the working class version of Brian.

Thing is, he can't be Basil Fawlty and still be likable (unless you are meant to laugh at him as you did Fawlty),
so the pip pip cheerio stuff has to be toned down no matter what.

Brian's not a noble, though. He comes from money, but he's not titled - he's not Sir Braddock, he's just got a big house. He had a housekeeper, though I believe she's dead now. I don't think we've ever seen servants in Braddock Manor - they would require danger money, anyway.

I think we're all a bit sensitive about the cliched aspects of how the American writers tend to portray the English.

[Gallifrey]

From what I've read so far Captain Britain is in an interesting position.

What may seem to a an American writer as exotic (Brian's nobility) probably comes off as tiresome (or worse) to a Brit.

It probably alienates him to about 99% of British readers when he's portrayed as such.

Brian has all the trappings of nobility, title, manor and servants I guess (I don't know if C.B. has his own personal Alfred or not) but Cornell's Captain Britain didn't put much stock in that stuff.

This is just it. He doesn't. He's not titled. He was King of Otherworld for a while, but that's just a made up Marvel title, and that seems to have been forgotten anyway. Within the British peerage system he has no title that any writer has ever specified. His father was a Knight of the British Empire, but that's a non - herditary honour that was possibly conferred on him for services to the British scientific community. And as for servants, there was Emma Collins, who 'did' for the Braddocks as cleaner and housekeeper, and briefly Mastermind, in his 'Jeeves' persona (and even then the shifty digitised git was plotting behind Brian's back). It's not like he was brought up in Downton Abbey.

But I guess it has to be brought up in some manner, if only to show the difference between him and Union Jack.

Who, I guess is the working class version of Brian.

Which is kind of ironic, considering the first two Union Jacks were far more priveleged and aristocratic than the Braddocks, and very definitely nobility (Lords of the Realm, no less).

Thing is, he can't be Basil Fawlty and still be likable (unless you are meant to laugh at him as you did Fawlty),
so the pip pip cheerio stuff has to be toned down no matter what.

Which is the function he served in Claremont's Excalibur and the function I'm afraid Mr Remender partly envisages for him. You can't talk about teaching a character humility without implying a process of humiliation for that character.

Sorry, tried to multiquote your post but it went silly buggers on me so I've put most of my responses in bold text.

[Loki]

He had a housekeeper, though I believe she's dead now.

Emma died (an illness caused by Mastermind's prolonged use of mind control on her, something Mastermind clearly regretted), but when Jamie found out she'd passed away, he brought her back because he missed her.

[Monty_Cristo]

so he's a mix of Batman and Superman.

[RickyD410]

This is all very interesting to me. My only exposure to Captain Britain was New Excalibur, Wisdom, and MI13. I absolutely LOVED MI13 but I had no idea his suit/costume had any powers at all to it. I thought all of Brian's abilities were his own. Magic based of course. Or was that only in MI13? I guess I incorrectly assumed that when Merlin brought him back, he brought him back with all his original powers (except for the already mentioned confidence = power levels bit).

[Gallifrey]

This is all very interesting to me. My only exposure to Captain Britain was New Excalibur, Wisdom, and MI13. I absolutely LOVED MI13 but I had no idea his suit/costume had any powers at all to it. I thought all of Brian's abilities were his own. Magic based of course. Or was that only in MI13? I guess I incorrectly assumed that when Merlin brought him back, he brought him back with all his original powers (except for the already mentioned confidence = power levels bit).

It's a bone of contention; in his own series in the 80s it was made clear that the suit amplified his own innate, latent, abilities, and towards the end of that series it was suggested that Brian was beginning to develop those abilities without need of the uniform.

It was only when Chris Claremont took him on for the original Excalibur run that the whole 'geolocked' aspect of his powers (can't use them outside of the UK without wearing the suit) was introduced. This is also when the 'mystical energy' rationale starts getting bandied around.

I've always thought it would be more consistent to suggest that Brian's powers are psionic in nature; focused psychokinesis would explain his flight, strength and forcefield abilities, and 'psychic blocks' placed in his mind by Merlin would explain why he's not been able to reach his full potential previously. But that's just my pet theory.

It would also tie his abilities in with Elizabeth and Jamie's. I've always thought that the 'Jamie and Elizabeth are mutants but Brian isn't' rule is a daft and artificial distinction. But again, this was a retcon introduced by Claremont in order to shoehorn Jamie and Betsy into X - Book continuity.

No such ambiguity with the Ultimates CB though; he is just a normal human in a powered battlesuit (although it's currently Jamie, not Brian, who's wearing it).

[Muldwych]

How about a Captain Britain movie?

I was reading the top 10 Marvel movies never made and then at end it had worse 10 Marvel movies never made and he was number 5.

They said that and i quote

5. Captain Britain - I love the character, but a patriotic Brit Superhero would be hard to sell to the British, let alone the rest of the world.

Over at Den of Geek

So what do you think of that?

[Gallifrey]

How about a Captain Britain movie?

I was reading the top 10 Marvel movies never made and then at end it had worse 10 Marvel movies never made and he was number 5.

They said that and i quote
How about a Captain Britain movie?

I was reading the top 10 Marvel movies never made and then at end it had worse 10 Marvel movies never made and he was number 5.

They said that and i quote


5. Captain Britain - I love the character, but a patriotic Brit Superhero would be hard to sell to the British, let alone the rest of the world.



Over at Den of Geek

So what do you think of that?

There was a rumour doing the rounds about 3 years ago that a Captain Britain movie was being pitched with Gerard Butler playing CB, but that's prolly all it was - a rumour.

I sort of disagree with that comment - I think it would be harder to sell a CB movie within the UK than outside of it. They've managed to sell a Captain America movie around the world (with the exception of Russia and South Korea, where they had to rename it "First Avenger"), so I don't think a Captain Britain film would necessarily be a harder sell internationally, particularly if they bigged up the Arthurian aspects of the character.

Harry Potter's been a worldwide phenomenon and there's going to be a resurgence of interest in fantasy/sword and sorcery when the first Hobbit film comes out later this year, so a fantasy - flavoured superhero could be jumping on two cinematic bandwagons that are currently popular. Worked for Thor, anyway.